Author Topic: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg  (Read 28133 times)

jpetty

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #195 on: October 30, 2009, 11:26:26 AM »
Apparently you didn't feel that way when the ALC/LCA voted to ordain women; when we decided that nearly 2000 years of Christian teaching was not sufficient and could be disregarded.


I was too young to vote in 1970. 

How did I feel about it?  Well, I didn't have strong feelings either way.  The way the argument was put to my 11-year-old mind in the LCA was that we had theologically educated women, the church didn't know what else to do with them, they were capable of doing the job, there were faithful women leaders in the Bible -- so why not? 

The problem is, the Holy Ministry is not a job, and leadership in the church is not the same as the Holy Ministry.  I recognized that long before I started the "professional preparation" process in the LCA.  Curiously, no one ever point blank asked me through 4 years of ELCA candidacy, and I'm pretty sure some of my classmates could read the signs.  But it's been the great unspoken topic throughout the ELCA's history. 

Seeing that, I've always been very, very careful since ordination of how I expressed by conviction that the 1970 vote was wrong and that women cannot be ordained into the Holy Ministry.  Not that I do not honor or respect the pastoral ministry of some of my female colleagues, especially those in the Society of the Holy Trinity (where my perspective is very much in the minority).  It is the LCA/ALC/ELCA practices on the Ministry that has put these women in their difficult position.  They have sought to serve the church in the most faithful way the church would permit.  Some have done very well at it, and I frankly hold myself in awe of some of them.

The "bound conscience" clauses in the Ministry Recommendations and the Social Statement are, fundamentally flawed.  Yet, perhaps strangely, they have also given me the freedom to be released of the shackles of silence on the ordination of women.  I will be civilized and polite about it, I will work with faithful female pastors to fullest extent I possibly can, and I will even defend them from those who would attack the Office that they have been put into by this church. 

But the ordination of women by Lutheran churches was (and is) a mistake.  Furthermore it is an ecumenical dead end.  And all this is revealed most clearly when the ordination of practicing homosexuals is always first defended by pointing to the ordination of women.

Someday, the ELCA or its successors will have to deal with it.  I hope we will be able to do a better job of that in the future than we did with sexuality these last 21+ years.

Pax, Steven+

That being the case, would the LCMS be an option for you?

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #196 on: October 30, 2009, 03:30:46 PM »
That being the case, would the LCMS be an option for you?


Yes, it is an option.  It has yet to become the better option.

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James Thomas Sharp

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #197 on: October 30, 2009, 04:29:22 PM »
That being the case, would the LCMS be an option for you?


Yes, it is an option.  It has yet to become the better option.

Pax, Steven+
What makes it the not better option?  (won't be offended if you choose not to answer but can't help but be curious.)
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LutherMan

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #198 on: July 02, 2010, 11:05:03 AM »
http://www.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=17196

Planners begin work on Wittenberg attraction

"We are a significant step closer to creating a world-class attraction in Wittenberg, Germany, that will very clearly present the Gospel to tens of thousands of people -- or more -- every year through the story and theology of Martin Luther," LCMS missionary Rev. David L. Mahsman said after a two-day creative-planning meeting June 24-25 in Wittenberg.

Plans are being developed for an "interactive, immersive museum or discovery center" in the city most closely associated with Luther. witt.gifIt is expected to draw Wittenberg-area residents, visitors and tourists from around the world, he said.

Mahsman was sent to Wittenberg in September to develop a plan for ministry in Wittenberg. He is managing director of the International Lutheran Society of Wittenberg (ILSW), which was established by the LCMS, Concordia Publishing House and Germany's Independent Evangelical Lutheran Church to work in Wittenberg.

"The story we want to tell centers on the clarity of the Gospel that Martin Luther rediscovered in Wittenberg," said Dr. Samuel H. Nafzger, chairman of the ILSW board. Nafzger, who also is director of church relations in the LCMS Office of the President, was one of the participants in the creative meeting.

LCMS Vice-President-Finance/Treasurer Tom Kuchta, who also participated, added, "We have strong Lutheran theologians and historians involved, but the story will be told in a way that is easily understood by every visitor."

The two-day meeting was led by staff from BRC Imagination Arts, which Mahsman said is "probably the world leader in developing interactive museums and educa-tional and cultural attractions." BRC clients include the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, Springfield, Ill.; the Texas State History Museum, Austin; Chicago's Adler Planetarium; Louisiana's Old State Capitol political history museum; the National Health Museum, Atlanta; the Arizona Science Center, Phoenix; and NASA's Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex in Florida.

Participants also included Dr. Paul L. Maier, LCMS second vice president and professor of ancient history at Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo; Dr. Erik Herrmann, assistant professor of historical theology at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis; SELK Bishop Hans-Jšrg Voigt; SELK mission director Rev. Roger Zieger; Rev. Wilhelm Torgerson, retired ILSW managing director; Dr. Martin Treu, curator of Wittenberg's Lutherhaus museum; Wittenberg OberbŸrgermeister (Lord Mayor) Eckhard Naumann and mayoral aide Arne Lietz, whose assignments include tourism-related issues.

Preliminary reports are due in late July from BRC Imagination Arts as well as from Wenzel Consulting of Hamburg, Germany, which is preparing an analysis of costs and other data for the project.  Final reports are due at the end of August.  The ILSW board will meet in early September to discuss the next step and to prepare a report for the LCMS Board of Directors.

"This has exciting potential," Dr. Paul Maier said of the project. With the approach of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation in 2017, he said, the Wittenberg project has "the confluence of location, the anniversary and the centrality of what happened here. This is where the Reformation began, and the project is a way to celebrate it properly."

Posted July 1, 2010

LutherMan

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Wittenberg Project to open doors for evangelism
« Reply #199 on: April 01, 2014, 07:48:53 PM »
http://blogs.lcms.org/2014/wittenberg-project-to-open-doors
Wittenberg Project to open doors for evangelism

As the 500th anniversary of the Reformation approaches in 2017, those involved with The Wittenberg Project are moving steadily toward completion of this venue for Lutheran education and platform for Gospel proclamation in Wittenberg, Germany — the birthplace of the Reformation.

The project is being developed by the International Lutheran Society of Wittenberg (ILSW, a German nonprofit corporation owned by the LCMS), Concordia Publishing House and the Independent Evangelical Lutheran Church (SELK, an LCMS partner church in Germany). Its purpose is to renovate Wittenberg’s Old Latin School, which celebrates its 450th birthday this year, for use as a ministry center.

The Rev. David Mahsman, LCMS missionary in Germany and managing director of the ILSW, believes that The Wittenberg Project will open doors for evangelism and the education of unchurched people in Wittenberg, as well as provide a distinctly Lutheran gathering place for those in the church.

“The goal of The Wittenberg Project is to honor our Lutheran heritage as we approach the 500th anniversary of the Reformation by nurturing and strengthening the faith of Christians and introducing the Christian faith to non-Christians,” according to the project’s business plan. “Through development of a Christian education and outreach center in the very birthplace of the Reformation, we will attract students and visitors, promote confessional-Lutheran theology, and open doors to Gospel outreach and works of mercy.”

“What can be more exciting and worthwhile than helping to deepen the faith of Christians and introducing the faith to non-Christians — and doing it in the very place used by God to restore the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ to the church and to the world 500 years ago?” Mahsman asked.
<snip>

Rev. Spaceman

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #200 on: April 10, 2014, 09:03:03 PM »
So is anyone going to answer my question about why they think there is a need to establish a "new" Wittenberg Center, when one is already in place with the cooperation and support of the majority of Lutheran churches in Germany? And the established center apparently has the support of major Lutheran educational foundations and historic sites in "Lutherland."

Charles, I didn't take the time to read all 14 pages of this discussion, so I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.  But I will say that I was a part of the Wittenberg Center about 10 years ago when I did my internship in Germany in cooperation between the Wittenberg Center and a German congregation in Leipzig.  My understanding is (unless something has changed recently) that the Wittenberg Center has really been scaled back in size, and there is no longer a full time presence there.  Rather, an American pastor who also serves in the area devotes some time there.  So, that might explain why the LCMS felt that it was justified to establish a presence there.
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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #201 on: April 10, 2014, 10:41:06 PM »
So is anyone going to answer my question about why they think there is a need to establish a "new" Wittenberg Center, when one is already in place with the cooperation and support of the majority of Lutheran churches in Germany? And the established center apparently has the support of major Lutheran educational foundations and historic sites in "Lutherland."

Charles, I didn't take the time to read all 14 pages of this discussion, so I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.  But I will say that I was a part of the Wittenberg Center about 10 years ago when I did my internship in Germany in cooperation between the Wittenberg Center and a German congregation in Leipzig.  My understanding is (unless something has changed recently) that the Wittenberg Center has really been scaled back in size, and there is no longer a full time presence there.  Rather, an American pastor who also serves in the area devotes some time there.  So, that might explain why the LCMS felt that it was justified to establish a presence there.


Charles was banned from this forum. He can no longer post - and I don't think he can read posts either. If you want to communicate with him, send him an e-mail.
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Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #202 on: April 10, 2014, 10:58:57 PM »
and I don't think he can read posts either.


Anyone can read any of the posts.  Registration is neccesary only to post.

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LutherMan

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #203 on: December 17, 2014, 09:06:41 PM »
http://blogs.lcms.org/2014/wittenberg-center

Wittenberg, Germany, education center to open in May
on November 29, 2014 in News, Reporter 1

A major milestone for “The Wittenberg Project” — the effort to establish a Lutheran education and outreach center in the birthplace of the Reformation — is only months away.

On May 3, representatives from the LCMS, Concordia Publishing House and the Synod’s German sister church will dedicate the new International Lutheran Center in the Old Latin School in the very heart of historic Wittenberg, Germany.
The exterior of Wittenberg's Old Latin School — now the International Lutheran Center — sports new stucco, paint and windows. The new center includes a chapel, lecture hall, bookstore, library, offices and housing. (David L. Mahsman)

Renovation of the 450-year-old school building, located only steps from Wittenberg’s Town Church, the “Mother Church of the Reformation,” began just more than a year ago. Exterior work on the building — a new roof, windows, stucco and paint — is largely finished. Interior work will continue through the winter.

“There’s a lot to do between now and May, but we are finally getting close to realizing our vision for a place in Wittenberg for reaching people with the Gospel and helping Christians to grow in their faith and mission awareness,” said the Rev. David L. Mahsman. “I can’t imagine a better way to thank and honor God for what He did here 500 years ago.” The 500th anniversary of the Reformation will be celebrated in 2017.

<snip>

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #204 on: December 17, 2014, 10:27:58 PM »
Here is the one of the sites site for the "Luther Decade" being observed in Europe.
http://www.luther2017.de/en/7429/luther-decade-luther2017-500-years-reformation

Here is info on a Luther Seminary tour.
http://www.luthersem.edu/elerts/article.aspx?id=794

And here is the EKD site:
http://www.ekd.de/english/1710-3814.html

I think some changes have been made in the ELCA presence in Wittenberg; but this website is still active.
http://www.elca.org/wittenberg

This is, I think, the home page for the EKD, dominant Lutheran Church in Germany.
http://www.ekd.de/english/


« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 10:34:16 PM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

LutherMan

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #205 on: December 17, 2014, 10:33:14 PM »
Thanks for the links, Pr. A... :)

LutherMan

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #206 on: May 27, 2015, 04:54:46 PM »
http://blogs.lcms.org/2015/wittenberg-dedication

LCMS president reprises Luther during Wittenberg dedication

By Roger Drinnon

WITTENBERG, Germany — Nearly 450 people — including Wittenberg residents, LCMS representatives and international church partners from around the world — took part in the dedication service for the International Lutheran Center at die Alte Latein Schule (the Old Latin School) here May 3.


The service, conducted jointly with leaders from both the LCMS and the Selbständige Evangelisch Lutherische Kirche (SELK), began at Wittenberg’s historic St. Mary’s Church, where Martin Luther preached more than 2,000 times. The liturgy alternated between German and English, with LCMS President Rev. Dr. Matthew C. Harrison preaching in both German and English.

The SELK is a partner church with the Synod.

“We are very excited to take part in the dedication ceremony of the International Lutheran Center,” said the Rev. Dr. Armin Wenz, an SELK pastor from Halle who periodically is a guest professor at the SELK seminary. “For us confessional Lutherans in Germany, this is a great day — we have a center and a meeting place in the capital of world Lutheranism where Luther and Melanchthon studied, and we are very thankful to all our brothers and sisters, especially those in the [LCMS], who made this day possible.”
<snip>
http://blogs.lcms.org/2015/wittenberg-dedication

loschwitz

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #207 on: May 28, 2015, 10:47:14 AM »
I admire the SELK for its faithfulness and practice, not the least being the fact that its pastors wear alb and stole.   The Landeskirchen pastors still cling to the
Talar mit Beffchen and can't bring themselves to cast off the cloaks of darkness.

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #208 on: May 28, 2015, 10:51:21 AM »
loschwitz writes:
I admire the SELK for its faithfulness and practice, not the least being the fact that its pastors wear alb and stole.   The Landeskirchen pastors still cling to the
Talar mit Beffchen and can't bring themselves to cast off the cloaks of darkness.

I comment:
Are you serious? Is this a real concern for you? No wonder the church continues to fail! You attach some essential gospel substance to vestiture? "Cloaks of darkness?" Is that any different than someone calling alb and chausable "papist pomp and pretension"? And FWIW, there are pastors outside the SELK who wear alb and stole. Good grief!
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loschwitz

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Re: Interesting Developments in Wittenberg
« Reply #209 on: May 28, 2015, 11:43:23 AM »
Very few pastors in the churches of the EKD wear the alb.

The Talar represents Hohenzollern efforts to reduce the office of Word and Sacrament to one more branch of the Prussian bureaucracy.   

Use of the Talar was made mandatory.  It was not a matter of adiophora.