Author Topic: TEC unraveling officially begins  (Read 246292 times)

Brian Hughes

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #945 on: March 01, 2008, 07:52:02 AM »
There won't be any backlash.  The Anglican Churches live in their own world, and where they are not the State Church, they continue to act as though they were.  This sort of thing happens among then every now and then, and goes way back to the time of Elizabeth I.  Nothing new there.

  Perhaps no backlash outside of Anglican circles, but from what I'm reading it will have an impact on those who are still one the fence.  The AC will come apart in our generation, no longer is there any question about that. 

Brian

E. Swensson

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #946 on: March 01, 2008, 08:53:58 PM »
A Letter from Leslie Bentley About Dr. Jim Packer’s Situation


I am the spokesperson for St. John's Shaughnessy Anglican Church in Vancouver. Dr. Packer has been an honourary assistant at St. John's for well over 20 years. We are a church in serious theological dispute with the Diocese of New Westminster which was the first diocese in the worldwide Anglican Communion to write a rite for the blessing of same sex unions and then allow them to happen. This is, of course, only a symptom of the underlying theological dispute which is currently ripping the worldwide communion apart.

Two weeks ago St. John's voted by a 97.7% margin to accept an offer of temporary emergency episcopal oversight from the Province of the Southern Cone under Archbishop Greg Venables. Dr. Packer strongly supported this move. To see Dr. Packer's specific views on the situation in the Anglican Church I encourage you to check out a YouTube posting where he discusses the issue with a reporter. You can find it on YouTube by searching for St. John's Shaughnessy. It is a 10 part video (115 minutes in all) with our rector, David Short, and Dr. Packer giving a very comprehensive explanation of the Anglican Church's situation right now.


I'd also encourage you to look up The Anglican Network in Canada (ANiC). This the the new structure the orthodox Anglican churches are joining in order that we might remain in full communion with the worldwide church . Currently, The Anglican Church of Canada and the Diocese of New Westminister have been declared to be in imapired or broken communion with about 20 of 38 National Anglican Churches around the world.

As a result of St. John's vote on Fevruary 13, 2008:

Dr. Packer together with the other clergy at St. John's have been served with a Notice of Presumption of Abandonment of the Exercise of the Ministry under Canon XIX and the notice is based on the following facts:

1. that he has publicly renounced the doctrine and discipline of the Anglican Church of Canada; and
2. that you have sought or intend to seek admission into another religious body outside the Anglican Church of Canada.

The notice also states that if Dr. Packer does not take advantage of provisions under the Canons to dispute the facts stated above, Dr. Packer's spiritual authority as a minister of Word and Sacraments conferred in ordination will be revoked on April 21, 2008.

The legal team of ANiC is reviewing and considering the validity and alleged consequences of such Notice of Presumption of Abandonment."

None, of this in any way affects Dr. Packer's status or standing at Regent College or any other of the many organizations he represents.
I hope this helps clarify things. Please don't hesitate to contact me again.


Sincerely,

Lesley Bentley
Spokesperson
St. John's Shaughnessy, Vancouver.





E. Swensson

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Anglicans padlock rebel church
« Reply #947 on: March 04, 2008, 09:26:46 AM »
Anglicans padlock rebel church
 
RICK EGLINTON/TORONTO STAR
St. Chad's notice steers Anglican faithful to services at nearby St. Hilda's. Inside, a security guard keeps vigil.  Email story
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THE BREAKAWAY FLOCK
Ten churches in Canada have left Anglican fold to join the Network, which is part of Buenos Aires-based Anglican Province of the Southern Cone:


• Church of the Good Shepherd in Vancouver

• St. John's (Shaughnessy) Anglican, Vancouver

• St. Matthias and St. Luke Anglican, Vancouver

• St. Mary's of the Incarnation (Metchosin), Victoria, B.C.

• St. Matthew's Anglican, Abbotsford, B.C.

• St. Chad's Anglican, Toronto

• Church of the Good Shepherd, St. Catharines

• St. George's Anglican, Lowville, Ont.

• St. Hilda's Anglican, Oakville

• St. Alban the Martyr Anglican, Ottawa

Five previously independent churches have also joined:

• Church of the Resurrection, Hope, B.C.

• Church of the Holy Cross, Abbotsford, B.C.

• St. John's Richmond, Richmond, B.C.

• Church of the Resurrection, Brandon, Man.

• Faith Anglican Church, Ottawa
Diocese says St. Chad's off limits to breakaway congregation during 'cooling off' period

Mar 04, 2008 04:30 AM
Stuart Laidlaw
Faith and Ethics Reporter

St. Chad's Anglican Church sits empty after the Toronto diocese changed the locks and told all parishioners to go elsewhere, in response to the congregation voting recently to split from the Anglican Church of Canada.

"They've locked us out of the building," said Cheryl Chang, a lawyer for the breakaway parishioners. "They've closed the building to worshippers."

In a press release, the diocese said the west-end premises will remain closed to all parishioners for an unspecified "cooling off period" following a vote last month in which the small congregation voted to leave the Anglican Church of Canada in a growing dispute over same-sex marriage blessings.

"Parishioners have the absolute right to choose where they wish to worship – what they don't have is the right to take the building with them," suffragan Toronto Bishop Philip Poole said in the release.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/309041

Brian Hughes

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Re: Anglicans padlock rebel church
« Reply #948 on: March 04, 2008, 09:36:14 AM »

"Parishioners have the absolute right to choose where they wish to worship – what they don't have is the right to take the building with them," suffragan Toronto Bishop Philip Poole said in the release.


  What a wonderful public witness.  Thanks.  Yes, that's irony.  This nonsense about buildings is hurting all of us.  And yes, we know what will happen to that building; it will be sold and probably used as a nightclub/bar/rave dance facility because there's no one left to financially support it.   I'm sure the Bishop would rather have that in his diocese than another faithful Christian community ...

Brian

E. Swensson

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #949 on: March 04, 2008, 09:51:12 AM »
In the story the dioscene official sounds so sure but it is bluff and spin since he knows as well as the reporter: "Last week, a Hamilton judge granted two breakaway congregations in the Niagara diocese exclusive use of their buildings, forcing out those loyal to the national church. The two parties are to return to court later this month to continue a legal fight over who owns the buildings."

Guess who I hope wins...

Yes, it is a shame that it comes ot legal fights. It makes for a horrible public witness. 

pr dtp

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #950 on: March 04, 2008, 10:12:12 AM »
In the story the dioscene official sounds so sure but it is bluff and spin since he knows as well as the reporter: "Last week, a Hamilton judge granted two breakaway congregations in the Niagara diocese exclusive use of their buildings, forcing out those loyal to the national church. The two parties are to return to court later this month to continue a legal fight over who owns the buildings."

Guess who I hope wins...

Yes, it is a shame that it comes ot legal fights. It makes for a horrible public witness. 


Guess who wins?   Short term - the lawyers

Long term - God

This happened in Boston, a number of years ago.  They are trying to do it to the Caliofrnia diocese. 

The faithful saints need to be careful though.  Even in the article above, they are portrayed as fighting over same sex unions.  But as seen here enough, that issue is but a symptom of a more important underlying issue.  That is the way in which the word of God is seen, and handled.  That is basis for the disagreements in the Anglican Church today.

Then again, it's been there since the garden.  "Did God really say".....

I pray for these brothrs, that they indeed are able to do that which they desire, and are able to keep their buildings.  But that they do not compromise their faith in order to do so.

E. Swensson

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #951 on: March 04, 2008, 10:46:19 AM »

E. Swensson

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #952 on: March 06, 2008, 04:49:47 PM »
Find yourself confusing Church with Christ, TEC?

"But critics say the liturgy and the church's promotion of it during Lent is idolatrous. The Anglican blog StandFirm posted excerpts from the liturgy under the introduction, "<a href="http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/9393/">Gitcher fresh hell here</a>."

"Kendall Harmon, canon theologian of the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina and editor of The Anglican Digest, said the liturgy is based on a "terribly truncated version of the baptismal covenant" and reveals a theological mindset that is un-Trinitarian.

"It runs the risk of replacing Christ with the church and the activity of Christ with the activity of the church," Harmon said.

"Edith Humphrey, William F. Orr professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, criticized the document's theology for similar reasons.

"Like the song, "God Has No Hands But Our Hands," it forgets the sovereignty of God," she said. "God does use us, but he's the initiator. It's so sad to see the gospel diluted to simply being kind to others. I don't think that a gospel like that really communicates the grandeur of God and what he's done for us in Christ."

"Both Harmon and Humphrey said their concerns are with the liturgy itself and they don't have a problem with promoting the Millennium Development Goals, or even using the framework of the goals to pray about global problems."

More at http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/marchweb-only/110-42.0.html

Charles_Austin

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #953 on: March 06, 2008, 05:27:21 PM »
So someone somewhere with authority for the Church catholic has declared the Millennium Development Goals heretical? And should they be a "framework" for prayers about our earth, is this some kind of apostasy? Did I miss those pronouncements from somewhere?
Or are those Millennium Development Goals evil because it appears that "liberals" - those nasty "revisionists" - seem to support them? Enlighten me.

E. Swensson

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #954 on: March 06, 2008, 05:39:17 PM »
The issue is confusing the Church with Christ. Confusion is not heresy, it's just bewildering. Lutherans have the advantage of having a teacher who said a theologian has clarity, calls a thing what it is, rightly divides Law and Gospel, you know, sounds like a theological motif, no? We value clarity, not confusion.

The article above clearly states that the problem is not with MDG's but with creating confusion.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 05:47:47 PM by E. Swensson »

Dave_Poedel

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #955 on: March 06, 2008, 05:45:21 PM »
Eric beat me to posting this.  Read through the Liturgy.....what the.....there IS no Cross.

E. Swensson

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #956 on: March 06, 2008, 05:50:42 PM »
Eric beat me to posting this.  Read through the Liturgy.....what the.....there IS no Cross.

So, Dave, what do theologians do with a "Theology with No Cross"?

Let's see, how else can we co-opt other lenten images, practices and hymnody...

'When I survey the ... hey, who took the cross
on which the king of glory died...

Charles_Austin

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #957 on: March 06, 2008, 06:22:33 PM »
Now I get it. Because a corrupt and possibly contemptible liturgy exists which uses the Millennium Development Goals, those goals must be pollutants in our spiritual and secular life. 

Jay

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #958 on: March 06, 2008, 08:19:02 PM »
I attend a Wednesday Rite I Eucharist at a local Episcopal Church and assist with worship and preach there occasionally. Even though I'm not a member, they put me on the parish's list for subscriptions to TEC's monthly magazine "Episcopal Life." It seems like every month there is a lot of discussion about the MDGs and very little about the cross. 

Brian Hughes

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Re: TEC unraveling officially begins
« Reply #959 on: March 07, 2008, 10:34:26 AM »
I attend a Wednesday Rite I Eucharist at a local Episcopal Church and assist with worship and preach there occasionally. Even though I'm not a member, they put me on the parish's list for subscriptions to TEC's monthly magazine "Episcopal Life." It seems like every month there is a lot of discussion about the MDGs and very little about the cross. 


  I'm sure TEC has expended several orders of magnitude more on their internal lawsuits than they have on MDGs.  It is difficult to understand how they can reconcile the two.

Brian