Thread for discussion of Russia and Ukraine...

Started by Rob Morris, March 02, 2023, 09:04:35 AM

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Robert Johnson

Quote from: Charles Austin on March 07, 2023, 03:44:34 PM
I have a clear answer.
   Kick the Russian asses out of Ukraine, where they do not belong, where the Ukrainians do not want them

Except, of course, for the parts of the Ukraine where the Ukes/Rus do want the Russians there.

Maybe that's too nuanced.

Dan Fienen

No nuance, that just leads to fence sitting which Charles hates. After all, who says life is messy?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

Russia annexed territory in:

1992 Moldova
2008 Georgia
2014 Ukraine Crimea
2022 Ukraine eastern provinces, though with clear intent to take the capital

We did not intervene previously.  What do you suppose has changed for the US and NATO that are lending so much military aid now?

Michael Slusser

Quote from: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on March 07, 2023, 09:47:03 PM
Russia annexed territory in:

1992 Moldova
2008 Georgia
2014 Ukraine Crimea
2022 Ukraine eastern provinces, though with clear intent to take the capital

We did not intervene previously.  What do you suppose has changed for the US and NATO that are lending so much military aid now?
That the Ukrainians decided to fight back?
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

Quote from: Michael Slusser on March 07, 2023, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on March 07, 2023, 09:47:03 PM
Russia annexed territory in:

1992 Moldova
2008 Georgia
2014 Ukraine Crimea
2022 Ukraine eastern provinces, though with clear intent to take the capital

We did not intervene previously.  What do you suppose has changed for the US and NATO that are lending so much military aid now?
That the Ukrainians decided to fight back?

I'm reading that Ukraine did fight back in 2014, though unsuccessfully. Perhaps it's because of the efforts to join NATO or because Ukraine did fight back successfully this time.

Is the war more clearly just this time?

Jeremy_Loesch

Quote from: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on March 07, 2023, 09:47:03 PM
Russia annexed territory in:

1992 Moldova
2008 Georgia
2014 Ukraine Crimea
2022 Ukraine eastern provinces, though with clear intent to take the capital

We did not intervene previously.  What do you suppose has changed for the US and NATO that are lending so much military aid now?

What changed? Money.  Western Europe started getting cozier with Russia, namely they started getting more energy sources (petroleum and natural gas) from Russia. The Nordstream and Nordstream 2 pipelines were built, which irritated the US. The US blew up the Nordstream 2 pipeline (according to individual studies by the Danes, Norwegians, and Swedes.)

The US was losing its preeminent spot as the supplier to Europe and Russia was moving in. NATO continued expanding and provoking Russia, now here we are fighting this proxy war. If it keeps going on Poland, a member  of the North Atlantic (?) Treaty Organization, is going to be invaded. When that happens US soldiers will be on the move and killed in this war.

That's what changed.

Jeremy

Pastor Ken Kimball

Budapest Memorandum.  1994.   US and UK guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for it giving up its nuclear weapons (I think those weapons went to Russia). 

John_Hannah

Remember too that Finland and Sweden abandoned decades of neutrality immediately upon the 2022 Russian invasion. Targeting Kiev was quite different than Crimea and the Donbas where Russian speakers dominate. Finland, Sweden, and all of Europe realized that none would be safe anymore.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

RDPreus


peter_speckhard

For those who think the claim that Russia and Ukraine are inextricable is nonsense, consider this.

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/ukrainian-art-reclassification/index.html


Why did art curators around the world have all these Ukrainian artists or subjects/themes listed as Russian in the first place? Is the art community that culturally illiterate? Or was it perfectly common before this war to think of Kiev as the birthplace of Russia despite its location in Ukraine?

Now, before anyone needs to find a safe space, I'm not saying the invasion is justified. I'm saying those who compare it to something like Canada invading Maine are ignorant people. 

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