2023 LCMS Convention news, notes, and hard-hitting commentary

[Rev. Edward Engelbrecht]

After some consideration I'm putting this link on the LCMS Convention site thread, with the proviso that I do not know who Machaira Action is -

(EDITED to remove link)

This is very thorough in analysis of some of those on the White/Christian Nationalist Patriarchalist front who have been highly active in and around the Large Catechism issue, taking credit for getting President Harrison to flinch, and now I am very sure reacting in a strongly negative way to the continuation of the project without changes.  I would not be surprised if all kinds of threatening gestures are taking place, because this is a very dedicated tribe.

However, my reaction is that this behavior is described as being assisted by the attitudes propounded inside the LCMS, and the potential for the fomenting of the Nationalist types to find not only safe haven but ample ground for recruiting within the LCMS.

As examples, there is the clergy-driven Gottesblog, which threw the same shade as the Twitter folks with regard to the catechism on grounds of wokeness, and has in addition walked right up the Anti-Woke trail for months and years point by point.  There are those, many connected to Gottesdienst and also rostered clergy, who sponsored and elevated the Anti-Woke campaign at CUW for months and months including condemning the Black Student Union.  There are those who are on other lesser sites who can't get enough Anti-Woke on a daily basis.

Whatever is thought and said about those described in this link, attention must be paid to the pastors and professors who have taken a very similar tack to Mahler and Co.

Dave Benke

With respect, I don't think you gave enough consideration, if you actually posted this link anyway, thereby broadening its reach. Whatever you may think of the "analysis" given therein, the tactics used are those of cowardly terrorists who are doxxing any and all names they can come up with. It's shameful on its face, and I'm frankly appalled that you would give these cowards any more reach than they already have by linking to them. (Yes, I'm being rather strident here; maybe you would too, if you had some skin in the game.)

Are you surprised that people are researching those who attacked a project worth tens of thousands of dollars (at least) and the personnel who made it? You can't be that nieve, Chris.  If you are, you're in for a rough ride.

Please believe me when I say that I truly ask you this now not to be mean or snarky in any way, and not as a way of "scoring points" in an online argument or of being rude or disrespectful: if a member of your congregation came to you distraught over either themselves, or one of their friends or family, being slandered in a public forum, is this the sort of counsel or response you would give to them?

I  might ask why that person is slandering,  which would open up a broader discussion of how that came about.

The accusations and calls for resignation were over the top. I've been in the situation of the authors and editors on more than one occasion. My instinct is to meet people and try to talk things through.  But some in the church will react with anger, threats, intimidation and worse because they feel threatened.  I don't condone that response but you've got to understand it will happen.

[Chris Schelp]

After some consideration I'm putting this link on the LCMS Convention site thread, with the proviso that I do not know who Machaira Action is -

(EDITED to remove link)

This is very thorough in analysis of some of those on the White/Christian Nationalist Patriarchalist front who have been highly active in and around the Large Catechism issue, taking credit for getting President Harrison to flinch, and now I am very sure reacting in a strongly negative way to the continuation of the project without changes.  I would not be surprised if all kinds of threatening gestures are taking place, because this is a very dedicated tribe.

However, my reaction is that this behavior is described as being assisted by the attitudes propounded inside the LCMS, and the potential for the fomenting of the Nationalist types to find not only safe haven but ample ground for recruiting within the LCMS.

As examples, there is the clergy-driven Gottesblog, which threw the same shade as the Twitter folks with regard to the catechism on grounds of wokeness, and has in addition walked right up the Anti-Woke trail for months and years point by point.  There are those, many connected to Gottesdienst and also rostered clergy, who sponsored and elevated the Anti-Woke campaign at CUW for months and months including condemning the Black Student Union.  There are those who are on other lesser sites who can't get enough Anti-Woke on a daily basis.

Whatever is thought and said about those described in this link, attention must be paid to the pastors and professors who have taken a very similar tack to Mahler and Co.

Dave Benke

With respect, I don't think you gave enough consideration, if you actually posted this link anyway, thereby broadening its reach. Whatever you may think of the "analysis" given therein, the tactics used are those of cowardly terrorists who are doxxing any and all names they can come up with. It's shameful on its face, and I'm frankly appalled that you would give these cowards any more reach than they already have by linking to them. (Yes, I'm being rather strident here; maybe you would too, if you had some skin in the game.)

Are you surprised that people are researching those who attacked a project worth tens of thousands of dollars (at least) and the personnel who made it? You can't be that nieve, Chris.  If you are, you're in for a rough ride.

Please believe me when I say that I truly ask you this now not to be mean or snarky in any way, and not as a way of "scoring points" in an online argument or of being rude or disrespectful: if a member of your congregation came to you distraught over either themselves, or one of their friends or family, being slandered in a public forum, is this the sort of counsel or response you would give to them?

I  might ask why that person is slandering,  which would open up a broader discussion of how that came about.

The accusations and calls for resignation were over the top. I've been in the situation of the authors and editors on more than one occasion. My instinct is to meet people and try to talk things through.  But some in the church will react with anger, threats, intimidation and worse because they feel threatened.  I don't condone that response but you've got to understand it will happen.

I understand that I will continue sinning while I remain here in this life, as will all people, even believers; that does not mean that I should no longer strive against the works of the flesh, or that the Church should no longer preach the Law. (Not accusing you or anyone of doing that...just attempting to make a comparison that hopefully explains my point of view at least a little.)

[Rev. Edward Engelbrecht]

After some consideration I'm putting this link on the LCMS Convention site thread, with the proviso that I do not know who Machaira Action is -

(EDITED to remove link)

This is very thorough in analysis of some of those on the White/Christian Nationalist Patriarchalist front who have been highly active in and around the Large Catechism issue, taking credit for getting President Harrison to flinch, and now I am very sure reacting in a strongly negative way to the continuation of the project without changes.  I would not be surprised if all kinds of threatening gestures are taking place, because this is a very dedicated tribe.

However, my reaction is that this behavior is described as being assisted by the attitudes propounded inside the LCMS, and the potential for the fomenting of the Nationalist types to find not only safe haven but ample ground for recruiting within the LCMS.

As examples, there is the clergy-driven Gottesblog, which threw the same shade as the Twitter folks with regard to the catechism on grounds of wokeness, and has in addition walked right up the Anti-Woke trail for months and years point by point.  There are those, many connected to Gottesdienst and also rostered clergy, who sponsored and elevated the Anti-Woke campaign at CUW for months and months including condemning the Black Student Union.  There are those who are on other lesser sites who can't get enough Anti-Woke on a daily basis.

Whatever is thought and said about those described in this link, attention must be paid to the pastors and professors who have taken a very similar tack to Mahler and Co.

Dave Benke

With respect, I don't think you gave enough consideration, if you actually posted this link anyway, thereby broadening its reach. Whatever you may think of the "analysis" given therein, the tactics used are those of cowardly terrorists who are doxxing any and all names they can come up with. It's shameful on its face, and I'm frankly appalled that you would give these cowards any more reach than they already have by linking to them. (Yes, I'm being rather strident here; maybe you would too, if you had some skin in the game.)

Are you surprised that people are researching those who attacked a project worth tens of thousands of dollars (at least) and the personnel who made it? You can't be that nieve, Chris.  If you are, you're in for a rough ride.

Please believe me when I say that I truly ask you this now not to be mean or snarky in any way, and not as a way of "scoring points" in an online argument or of being rude or disrespectful: if a member of your congregation came to you distraught over either themselves, or one of their friends or family, being slandered in a public forum, is this the sort of counsel or response you would give to them?

I  might ask why that person is slandering,  which would open up a broader discussion of how that came about.

The accusations and calls for resignation were over the top. I've been in the situation of the authors and editors on more than one occasion. My instinct is to meet people and try to talk things through.  But some in the church will react with anger, threats, intimidation and worse because they feel threatened.  I don't condone that response but you've got to understand it will happen.

I understand that I will continue sinning while I remain here in this life, as will all people, even believers; that does not mean that I should no longer strive against the works of the flesh, or that the Church should no longer preach the Law. (Not accusing you or anyone of doing that...just attempting to make a comparison that hopefully explains my point of view at least a little.)

You might begin by urging the attackers who started this to repent and seek opportunities to reconcile with the persons they have offended. That would help restore peace. Arguing that they are now being treated unfairly will only prolong the trouble.

Again, I have seen people live in anger and vindictivenes to the point of self destruction. The outcomes are very sad.

[Donald_Kirchner]

Chris Schelp,

I'm really not following you. Who are you suggesting is defaming whom?

[Chris Schelp]

You might begin by urging the attackers who started this to repent and seek opportunities to reconcile with the persons they have offended. That would help restore peace. Arguing that they are now being treated unfairly will only prolong the trouble.

Again, I have seen people live in anger and vindictivenes to the point of self destruction. The outcomes are very sad.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear: my argument here has never been specifically about "the attackers;" that's a discussion for a separate time. This blog post tarred congregations, pastors, and others with guilt by association; they are the ones who are being treated incredibly unfairly. Forgive me if I continue to argue their case.

[Chris Schelp]

Chris Schelp,

I'm really not following you. Who are you suggesting is defaming whom?

I think I just answered you at the same time you were asking the question, up above.

[Donald_Kirchner]

You might begin by urging the attackers who started this to repent and seek opportunities to reconcile with the persons they have offended. That would help restore peace. Arguing that they are now being treated unfairly will only prolong the trouble.

Again, I have seen people live in anger and vindictivenes to the point of self destruction. The outcomes are very sad.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear: my argument here has never been specifically about "the attackers;" that's a discussion for a separate time. This blog post tarred congregations, pastors, and others with guilt by association; they are the ones who are being treated incredibly unfairly. Forgive me if I continue to argue their case.

Which blog post? Which congregations, pastors, and others? Why these vague innuendos?

[Rev. Edward Engelbrecht]

You might begin by urging the attackers who started this to repent and seek opportunities to reconcile with the persons they have offended. That would help restore peace. Arguing that they are now being treated unfairly will only prolong the trouble.

Again, I have seen people live in anger and vindictivenes to the point of self destruction. The outcomes are very sad.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear: my argument here has never been specifically about "the attackers;" that's a discussion for a separate time. This blog post tarred congregations, pastors, and others with guilt by association; they are the ones who are being treated incredibly unfairly. Forgive me if I continue to argue their case.

Good that you clarified your comments.

[Rob Morris]

You might begin by urging the attackers who started this to repent and seek opportunities to reconcile with the persons they have offended. That would help restore peace. Arguing that they are now being treated unfairly will only prolong the trouble.

Again, I have seen people live in anger and vindictivenes to the point of self destruction. The outcomes are very sad.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear: my argument here has never been specifically about "the attackers;" that's a discussion for a separate time. This blog post tarred congregations, pastors, and others with guilt by association; they are the ones who are being treated incredibly unfairly. Forgive me if I continue to argue their case.

Which blog post? Which congregations, pastors, and others? Why these vague innuendos?

The concern is the blog referenced by Pastor Benke, which doxxes Corey Mahler and provides a lengthy catalog of his worst moments. It also doxxes Ryan Turnipseed and several others. It gives the names of their churches and pastors and has several phrases recommending action be taken without specifying exactly what action.

It's a bit concerning that this is the first post on that particular blog, so it doesn't seem to be some long-running, "out-the-right-wingers" endeavor... not sure what those implications are. Pastor Engelbrecht seems to think it's by supporters of the Annotated Large Catechism, though I find that a bit of a stretch on it's face value.

[Dave Benke]

Best Practices for Ministry is rolling out in Phoenix, AZ this week.  2500 registrants with an enormous roster of speakers and workshops skewed toward the younger demographic, plus plenary sessions that tend to be electric.  Our deaconess, Janine Bolling, is there along with her brother, Pastor Gerard Bolling from Bethlehem, St. Louis.  Some direct conversation and interaction on racism in the church and in the LCMS and major workshops on outreach and ministry development.   

The food and hospitality at this event, hosted on the campus of Christ Lutheran Church, is always at chart-topping levels, according to those speaking with me from out there, who indicated that the Large Catechism is indeed available for purchase at the CPH booth.  Anyway, it's a gathering of folks including many from the large(r) congregations who have not had much voice or visibility at the national LCMS level for over a decade. 

Dave Benke

[peter_speckhard]

Best Practices for Ministry is rolling out in Phoenix, AZ this week.  2500 registrants with an enormous roster of speakers and workshops skewed toward the younger demographic, plus plenary sessions that tend to be electric.  Our deaconess, Janine Bolling, is there along with her brother, Pastor Gerard Bolling from Bethlehem, St. Louis.  Some direct conversation and interaction on racism in the church and in the LCMS and major workshops on outreach and ministry development.   

The food and hospitality at this event, hosted on the campus of Christ Lutheran Church, is always at chart-topping levels, according to those speaking with me from out there, who indicated that the Large Catechism is indeed available for purchase at the CPH booth.  Anyway, it's a gathering of folks including many from the large(r) congregations who have not had much voice or visibility at the national LCMS level for over a decade. 

Dave Benke

I just got back from the special, freebie Doxology seminar on post-Covid pastoral ministry. Best conference I've been to, which has made me sign up for the regular three part seminar. Alas, it was in Dayton, Ohio. Picking Phoenix in late February is probably one of those best practices they're talking about. 

[Jeremy_Loesch]

Yet if you were near Dayton you had access to Skyline Chili, which is most definitely culinary best practice!

Jeremy

[D. Engebretson]

Best Practices for Ministry is rolling out in Phoenix, AZ this week.  2500 registrants with an enormous roster of speakers and workshops skewed toward the younger demographic, plus plenary sessions that tend to be electric.  Our deaconess, Janine Bolling, is there along with her brother, Pastor Gerard Bolling from Bethlehem, St. Louis.  Some direct conversation and interaction on racism in the church and in the LCMS and major workshops on outreach and ministry development.   

The food and hospitality at this event, hosted on the campus of Christ Lutheran Church, is always at chart-topping levels, according to those speaking with me from out there, who indicated that the Large Catechism is indeed available for purchase at the CPH booth.  Anyway, it's a gathering of folks including many from the large(r) congregations who have not had much voice or visibility at the national LCMS level for over a decade. 

Dave Benke

I just got back from the special, freebie Doxology seminar on post-Covid pastoral ministry. Best conference I've been to, which has made me sign up for the regular three part seminar. Alas, it was in Dayton, Ohio. Picking Phoenix in late February is probably one of those best practices they're talking about. 

Doxology sponsored a special seminar of a similar type for the circuit visitors and presidium members a couple of years ago in our annual joint meeting of the North and South Wisconsin districts.  Excellent and much needed.  I have known David Fleming (Exec. Dir.) since my days at the sem in the 80s.  He brings a depth of pastoral experience and true energy to their program.  Along with Dr. Beverly Yanke, you can hardly do better. 

[Chris Schelp]

There is a group of people, perhaps several groups of people, who are planning to do major changes within your church body, some of them specifically directed at particular leaders. You want to handle this as if it were a dispute within a congregation? Very bad idea.

This has taken on a new level of high concern at the national level of our denomination within the last 12 hours.   I wrote this yesterday afternoon:  I would not be surprised if all kinds of threatening gestures are taking place, because this is a very dedicated tribe.  I have heard now that those words were somewhat prophetic.

The analysis provided in the link is that the LCMS has been selected by this "dedicated tribe" because of perceived alignment on issues of Christian Nationalism and Patriarchalism as they have appeared in other settings and venues articulated by clergy and other leaders.  That assessment is most difficult to deny.

Dave Benke

Rev. Benke, I ask that you check your DMs if you haven't in the past several days.

[ghp]

Heck, i'm starting to like CUW more and more just writing imaginary speeches about it. The real problem as I see is that it is way too expensive. My kids have gone elsewhere in part because they couldn't/can't afford to go to CUW. Maybe we can get Mitch Daniels to give us some pointers on keeping costs down while having quality and enrollment go up.   

Maybe if you just limit it to the flagship West Lafayette campus, sure.


But if you factor in the damage he did to (the former) Purdue Calumet and Purdue North Central via his forced merger of the two to form Purdue Northwest, then his record becomes a bit sketchy.


Ssee [size=78%]http://web.archive.org/web/20221213054512/https://www.lpheralddispatch.com/news/local/study-purdue-northwest-merger-did-not-turn-out-as-promised-for-westville-campus/article_000cb45f-f83e-5401-89a6-7ea6b6f88430.html[/size] for an article about an academic study of that merger. I lived the results of that merger, as I was laid off after 12 years at PNC (still the "last-in" IT manager on a team that was together for 12 years). Mitch based his view that the two campuses were too close together on an 8 minute helicopter ride, vs the 30-45+ minute car ride on the Boorman or Highway 2 that regular people faced.


I agree with Prof. Kim Snipes ([/size][size=78%]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/unification-negatively-impacted-purdue-satellite-campuses-study-says/ar-AAZWlzc[/size]) that the forced merger was an unmitigated disaster for PNC & LaPorte county. We had a good & growing community oriented campus, that got gutted over the next 5-7 years. I was unemployed for two years in the aftermath and fell down a hole into multi-year clinical depression. Fortunately, I was able to get a job in Texas and we're happy to be here. I'm healthy and in a much better job environment now, but that speaks more to God's blessings than it does to Mitch Daniels' leadership as a model for the CUS out of it's current issues.