Author Topic: I Need Some Catechism Help  (Read 2859 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #105 on: January 25, 2023, 05:06:01 PM »
I think the problem stems from people defining their position in term of resistance. That is, it is not good enough not to be racist, one must be anti-racist. As a reaction to that, the other side thinks it is not good enough not to be overtly "woke." One must be an anti-woke force. To be less is to be woke.

This isn't as absurd as it seems. When you're trying to stamp out a ruinous worldview, every vestige of it is problematic. The littlest gesture can become symbolic. Take feminism and the 1950's worldview. Most people are glad to do a small favor for a coworker, but a man asking a woman to get him a cup of coffee-- absolutely no big deal in its own right-- becomes a supercharged situation in some cases precisely because the woman has a zero tolerance policy toward the entire 1950's worldview, and this particular request hints at being a manifestation of one. Comment on a congresswoman's clothes and you just might be treated to a full blown Ph.D dissertation about how you embody everything that is wrong with the world by treating women's appearance differently than men's appearance. No matter how bossy a girl is, you may not call her bossy, you sexist. You must affirm her confident leadership.

Looking at how hyper-sensitive feminists can get about the subtlest hints of a sexist mindset and you start to understand how sensitive some conservatives are to hints of wokeism. It is matter of phantom dog whistles, minor details, word choice and tone of voice. If they detect someone present might not be fully anti-woke, not deeply offended or sufficiently disgusted by wokeism and all its works and all its ways, well, they can instantly  become like a woman CEO who has just innocently been mistaken for the receptionist. Not gonna stand.

I think that hypersensitivity is a weakness of feminism, anti-racism, the lgbtq movement, and now segments of conservatism. I think it is a weakness that tacitly expresses a real philosophical vulnerability. Feminism knows it is trying to erase real differences between men and women. Anti-racism knows it rests upon the validity of bogus group identity politics. The lgbtq loggy knows deep down that it is fighting against reality. So it screeches all the louder that anyone might dare even entertain such a thought. And conservatism, when it is weak like that, takes any acknowledgment of anything whatsoever that might be salutary about feminism, "racial justice," or lgbtq concerns as a call to arms. It can't bear even perceived microaggressions  against its worldview. That kind of hyper-sensitivty is nearly always a sign of weakness.

PrTim15

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #106 on: January 25, 2023, 08:01:36 PM »
I think Peter's comment is super good, and I think that wokeism has some seriously almost religious and idolatrous undertones.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #107 on: January 25, 2023, 08:24:29 PM »
And yet, there are others who post things like the attached.


Methinks that objections are against the worst forms of wokeism, rather than seeing how it is being beneficial.
"The church ... had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2023, 09:14:14 PM »
And yet, there are others who post things like the attached.


Methinks that objections are against the worst forms of wokeism, rather than seeing how it is being beneficial.
Possibly a record for irony, mocking a false stereotype of un-woke people by pointing to their lack of empathy and enlightenment. If everybody were as enlightened, educated, and empathetic as the person who made that meme, the world would be a drastically worse place than it is. Truly
A revolting degree of self-righteousness combined with complete lack of self-awareness.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #109 on: January 26, 2023, 01:08:03 AM »
And yet, there are others who post things like the attached.


Methinks that objections are against the worst forms of wokeism, rather than seeing how it is being beneficial.
Possibly a record for irony, mocking a false stereotype of un-woke people by pointing to their lack of empathy and enlightenment. If everybody were as enlightened, educated, and empathetic as the person who made that meme, the world would be a drastically worse place than it is. Truly
A revolting degree of self-righteousness combined with complete lack of self-awareness.


Quite similar to your post.
"The church ... had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #110 on: January 26, 2023, 04:07:46 AM »
It’s just the old old progressive/traditional, liberal/conservative divisions reworked. It’s CRT, Black Lives Matter, Sexual/gender identities, global/nativist perspective, communal/individual, religious/secular issues seen through politically colored right/left lenses.
Extremists left and right become defining forces.
Meanwhile…
-Efforts towards eliminating racism fail.
-Discussions on ecology tie up in knots, while air and water quality worsens.
-Sexuality, gender issues are politically and socially polarized.
-Immigrants are weaponized.
-Women, children and the elderly are stereotyped and punished.
-Religious faith (of one’s favorite form) is made Supreme or trivialized.
-Science is mocked or deified.
-Divisive labels are slapped on every issue, from advertising to Zoom technology.
It’s not 1570 or 1776 or 1865 or 1933 or 1945 or 1959. We and the world change. We must stop thinking that everything got locked down by our favorite movement in our favorite year.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #111 on: January 26, 2023, 10:26:13 AM »
Charles,

Glad you got your 4 am (3 am your time) secular politics rant out of the way. I'm sure you were thinking of the 2nd Table, so there's the relevance to the thread, giving us Catechism help.  ::)

Can you give it a rest now?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 10:36:30 AM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Charles Austin

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2023, 02:22:09 PM »
Tell me what about that posting was “ politics.“
Those are life and death issues for us, as human beings, and for our planet as a whole. Politics might have something to do with how we deal with them.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

peter_speckhard

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2023, 02:26:10 PM »
Tell me what about that posting was “ politics.“
Those are life and death issues for us, as human beings, and for our planet as a whole. Politics might have something to do with how we deal with them.
This part, for one: Sexuality, gender issues are politically and socially polarized.

Charles Austin

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2023, 02:43:07 PM »
I know that for you, Peter, there are no sexual or gender politics that would be in any way acceptable. Unless, of course you had the chance to legislate your views into our laws and our Constitution. A number of people who agree with you are trying to do that.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 02:44:50 PM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

peter_speckhard

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2023, 02:56:59 PM »
I know that for you, Peter, there are no sexual or gender politics that would be in any way acceptable. Unless, of course you had the chance to legislate your views into our laws and our Constitution. A number of people who agree with you are trying to do that.
You asked what about your entirely political post was politics. I pointed out the part that was the most explicitly, overtly political to answer your question. The issue isn't what gender politics is acceptable and to whom, but whether posts here are more political than theological. Politics is simply how you think, and remains so even when you think you aren't being political.

Charles Austin

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2023, 03:49:52 PM »
And you don’t? Post politically, that is. Politics is simply the means by which we get things done in civil society. And you with your concern for public education, homeschooling, medical care for women, marriage as a civil institution, and who knows how many other things, are as “political” has any of us. It’s just that you claim your politics are more theological than the politics of the rest of us. That’s because you believe you bring the single, absolute, uncorrectable, totally true word of God to your political views.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

peter_speckhard

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2023, 04:07:07 PM »
And you don’t? Post politically, that is. Politics is simply the means by which we get things done in civil society. And you with your concern for public education, homeschooling, medical care for women, marriage as a civil institution, and who knows how many other things, are as “political” has any of us. It’s just that you claim your politics are more theological than the politics of the rest of us. That’s because you believe you bring the single, absolute, uncorrectable, totally true word of God to your political views.
Then again, I also don’t ask, “What about my post was political?” and then bristle when someone points out where I said it was political.

Charles Austin

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2023, 05:12:48 PM »
I give up, except  to point out that the post in question did not suggest any political answers to those grave problems.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, New York and New Jersey. LCA/LWF staff. Former journalist  Writer for many church publications.

pastorg1@aol.com

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Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2023, 05:25:03 PM »
“I give up, except…”

Peter (Essential Austinian vibe) Garrison


Pete Garrison
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