Author Topic: Roe v. Wade overturned?  (Read 31144 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #705 on: June 22, 2022, 05:47:55 PM »
[Minnesota AG] Ellison says Minnesota will protect out-of-state abortion seekers if Roe v. Wade overturned

https://www.twincities.com/2022/06/21/ellison-says-minnesota-will-protect-out-of-state-abortion-seekers-if-roe-v-wade-overturned/

Gotta be a good neighbor! So proud! ::)

How much you wanna bet his great grandad^3 made sure to enforce the fugitive slave law. No one should interfere with property owners rights!

Actually...

"...the Muslimtradition is far to (sic) clear on the fact that Muhammad took many, many slaves and was actually very supportive of the institution."

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Slavery?gclid=CjwKCAjw-8qVBhANEiwAfjXLrlM4IlG2OTLQaGJ5vMxxNYJtJ52-X4bkUlSaX9suHha1dFDhGTquBBoChfAQAvD_BwE

OTOH, his great grandad was not Muslim. Ellison was raised Roman Catholic and converted to Islam as a young man.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 05:52:31 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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David Garner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #706 on: June 23, 2022, 11:22:53 AM »
4 decisions today.  I suppose we'll see how many tomorrow.  9 left, they could easily do that in 2 more opinion days, but I'd wager they take it to Wednesday just to spread them out.

One of the cases today was NYSRPA v. Bruen, which was a 6-3 decision by Justice Thomas striking down New York's restrictive firearm carry licensing scheme.  I note that not because of the subject matter of the opinion, but because 1) it was a 6-3 decision, including a pointed concurrence by Justice Kavanaugh and joined by the Chief Justice indicating the shall issue licensing schemes of 43 states may remain in place, and therefore 2) likely very hotly debated within the Court itself (Alito and Barrett also wrote separate concurrences), and additionally 3) the opinion was over 130 pages total.

That's heavy lifting, and if we consider the likely volume of concurrences and dissents in Dobbs, it stands to reason the volume of work to produce it will be significant.

They could drop Dobbs tomorrow or Monday and then ease out of the term with other opinions.  But frankly, I expect Dobbs next Wednesday.  Just because producing an opinion like that is a lot of work, and they just expended a lot of work on Bruen.
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #707 on: June 23, 2022, 12:04:45 PM »
Ever since the Dobbs draft was leaked, there has been heightened security at the Supreme Court and at the homes of Supreme Court Justices who were doxed on the internet. There has been frequent vandalism, cases of arson, and threats at women's health clinics that do not promote abortion as the preferred treatment for the disease of pregnancy, and other pro-life organizations, and an assassination attempt on a Supreme Court Justice.


There has also been a great deal of emphasis on right wing political violence and threats of right-wing violence in the news media and Congress. The January 6 hearings produced for TV. Not to mention calls for the Justice Department and the FBI to investigate parents who speak up at local school board meetings as domestic terrorists.


Is it those right-wing terrorists who are threatening the Supreme Court, non-abortion crisis pregnancy centers, and calling for rage in the streets if Roe v. Wade is overturned? Where is the wall-to-wall media coverage of violence and threats of violence in support of abortion?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #708 on: June 23, 2022, 12:47:08 PM »
The interesting thing about the NY gun license ruling is the same as in many other cases. Granted, I haven't read the entire thing, only excerpts, but what strikes me is that the minority opinions don't really even try to rely on the text of the Constitution. For example, Breyer talks about the catastrophe of all the violence involving guns, that many states have tried to address it with restrictions on who can have a gun and where, and this ruling will makes those efforts harder. But in the final analysis, so what? Nobody was asking the SCOTUS to have an opinion about various states' efforts to curb violence. They were asking the SCOTUS to say whether a rule that required someone to have a special reason as determined by the state to bear arms was a violation of the second amendment. And they determined it was. To determine otherwise on the basis of the text and precedent would be one thing. But to determine otherwise on the basis that not doing so would make it hard for states to do what they want to do is to abandon even the pretext of interpreting the Constitution.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #709 on: June 23, 2022, 01:40:19 PM »
Heard an item on NPR the other day. A black woman activist was ruminating on gun control laws. While in principle she was in favor of stricter gun control laws, she had also recently purchased a gun herself for protection. She noted that many black women that she knew had purchased guns during the pandemic and civil unrest over the last couple of years. Some of them had a bit of difficulty in their purchases, not because the gun laws were discriminatory against black women, but because so many black women were purchasing guns that there was a shortage. I guess supply chain issues affect that also. 


Apparently much of the impetus for this current round of gun control legislation, which may actually prove fruitful for a change, was the tragedy at Uvalde, Texas. And to a lesser extend the mass shooting at the grocery store in Buffalo, but that is usually just tagged on. The gun toting teen in Uvalde is and should be held accountable for the death and destruction he caused. But if we are to learn lessons from that mass shooting, we need to examine the events of that day. The more that is revealed the clearer it becomes that what went wrong that day was not only that an unstable, homicidal teen obtained weapons and used them, but that the authorities charged with responding to threats messed up very badly. It sure looks like much of the death and injury could have been avoided if proper and timely response had happened. The Keystone Kops could have done better. If the only lesson we learn from Uvalde is the need for more gun control laws, we will miss some very important lessons.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 01:52:01 PM by Dan Fienen »
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David Garner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #710 on: June 23, 2022, 03:06:30 PM »
Heard an item on NPR the other day. A black woman activist was ruminating on gun control laws. While in principle she was in favor of stricter gun control laws, she had also recently purchased a gun herself for protection. She noted that many black women that she knew had purchased guns during the pandemic and civil unrest over the last couple of years. Some of them had a bit of difficulty in their purchases, not because the gun laws were discriminatory against black women, but because so many black women were purchasing guns that there was a shortage. I guess supply chain issues affect that also. 


Apparently much of the impetus for this current round of gun control legislation, which may actually prove fruitful for a change, was the tragedy at Uvalde, Texas. And to a lesser extend the mass shooting at the grocery store in Buffalo, but that is usually just tagged on. The gun toting teen in Uvalde is and should be held accountable for the death and destruction he caused. But if we are to learn lessons from that mass shooting, we need to examine the events of that day. The more that is revealed the clearer it becomes that what went wrong that day was not only that an unstable, homicidal teen obtained weapons and used them, but that the authorities charged with responding to threats messed up very badly. It sure looks like much of the death and injury could have been avoided if proper and timely response had happened. The Keystone Kops could have done better. If the only lesson we learn from Uvalde is the need for more gun control laws, we will miss some very important lessons.

I've been horrified by the institutional failures at Uvalde.  I didn't think it could get worse than Parkland, but Uvalde is so much worse.  It would be worse if it were the same, only because we're talking about elementary school kids.  But good grief, they were waiting for the key to an unlocked door, they prevented other law enforcement officers and concerned parents from going in, they literally just stood around waiting for all those kids to die, and then to top it off there are stories that their officers might have killed some of the kids.

They really need to fire everyone and start from scratch with that police department.  A bunch of neighbors with pitchforks and torches could have done better.
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #711 on: June 23, 2022, 03:36:13 PM »
One of the cases today was NYSRPA v. Bruen, which was a 6-3 decision by Justice Thomas striking down New York's restrictive firearm carry licensing scheme.  I note that not because of the subject matter of the opinion, but because 1) it was a 6-3 decision, including a pointed concurrence by Justice Kavanaugh and joined by the Chief Justice indicating the shall issue licensing schemes of 43 states may remain in place, and therefore 2) likely very hotly debated within the Court itself (Alito and Barrett also wrote separate concurrences), and additionally 3) the opinion was over 130 pages total.

Biden and DOJ disagree and are disappointed in the decision. That's the very reason we have the US Constitution and the 2nd Amendment in particular!

"Enraged Keith Olbermann calls for Supreme Court's dissolution after New York concealed carry ruling"   ::)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/enraged-keith-olbermann-calls-supreme-courts-dissolution-after-new-york-concealed-carry-ruling
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 03:40:25 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #712 on: June 23, 2022, 03:37:45 PM »
Some of them had a bit of difficulty in their purchases, not because the gun laws were discriminatory against black women, but because so many black women were purchasing guns that there was a shortage. I guess supply chain issues affect that also. 

I am not aware of any shortages, at least in the Midwest. Mills Fleet Farm and others regularly put handguns on sale.
Don Kirchner

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David Garner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #713 on: June 23, 2022, 03:50:06 PM »
One of the cases today was NYSRPA v. Bruen, which was a 6-3 decision by Justice Thomas striking down New York's restrictive firearm carry licensing scheme.  I note that not because of the subject matter of the opinion, but because 1) it was a 6-3 decision, including a pointed concurrence by Justice Kavanaugh and joined by the Chief Justice indicating the shall issue licensing schemes of 43 states may remain in place, and therefore 2) likely very hotly debated within the Court itself (Alito and Barrett also wrote separate concurrences), and additionally 3) the opinion was over 130 pages total.

Biden and DOJ disagree and are disappointed in the decision. That's the very reason we have the US Constitution and the 2nd Amendment in particular!

"Enraged Keith Olbermann calls for Supreme Court's dissolution after New York concealed carry ruling"   ::)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/enraged-keith-olbermann-calls-supreme-courts-dissolution-after-new-york-concealed-carry-ruling

"House of Lords radicals pretending to be a court," you say?

I expect his thoughts on Dobbs to be enlightening.  I'm sure he's held the same opinion of Roe v. Wade since 1973, right?
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David Garner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #714 on: June 23, 2022, 03:52:08 PM »
Toobin's take is even funnier.  I mean, beyond him being Jeffrey Toobin, the guy most well known for having suffered a negligent discharge during a Zoom call.

Toobin said the ruling would "lead() to there being no gun restrictions anywhere in the country."  How utterly vapid.  Kavanaugh and Roberts, as noted above, both indicated they were signing on to no such thing.  And without Kavanaugh and Roberts, this is a 5-4 decision the other way.
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #715 on: June 23, 2022, 05:04:00 PM »
Toobin's take is even funnier.  I mean, beyond him being Jeffrey Toobin, the guy most well known for having suffered a negligent discharge during a Zoom call.

Toobin said the ruling would "lead() to there being no gun restrictions anywhere in the country."  How utterly vapid.  Kavanaugh and Roberts, as noted above, both indicated they were signing on to no such thing.  And without Kavanaugh and Roberts, this is a 5-4 decision the other way.


Exaggeration is a familiar political rhetorical device. Take a position, decision, or event that you don't like, pretend that the most extreme consequence imaginable will not only eventuate but is intended (no matter what the people involved say - you know better). Or do the opposite in praise of what you did or like. Donald Trump was notorious for this, especially in praising all the huge, huuuge, Perfect things he did, the greatest that was ever done. On the other side, suddenly the January 6 riot was a greater blow to the United States than was 9/11, Pearl Harbor, EVER!


It's like other forms of rhetorical inflation. The first time is good for effect, the third it become just annoying, the fifth it just fades into the background static and is ignored. So, it must continually be pumped up in volume, in exaggeration, and obscenity to have any hope of making an impression.


We see it in other areas of social life. Obscenities used for emphasis and shock value soon lose their shock value and must be continually topped by harsher obscenities used more frequently. Dirty jokes that are funny primarily because they shock soon lose that shock value necessary to be funny and must be replaced by even dirtier jokes, more obscene, without ever really becoming funny.


I wonder what Pr. Austin would say about Keith Olbermann's tantrum. Charles often calls me out for exaggerating the effects of something in order to play the victim card. Would he call Olbermann for exaggeration or since his exaggeration is the service of one of his pet causes, gun control would he give Olbermann a pass?
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #716 on: June 23, 2022, 05:56:15 PM »
I am not aware of any shortages, at least in the Midwest. Mills Fleet Farm and others regularly put handguns on sale.

Hmmm...  The last time I was at Fleet Farm (last year) they had far fewer firearms in stock than usual.  The cases where handguns are normally displayed were half full, and the wall where the shotguns and rifles hang were pretty picked over.  From what I have heard, manufacturers sold out of what was available and were having trouble keeping up with demand.  Since last year, demand seems to have receded somewhat.  The new SCOTUS decision may help even more since people may worry less about new laws preventing them from buying.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #717 on: June 23, 2022, 06:43:02 PM »
I am not aware of any shortages, at least in the Midwest. Mills Fleet Farm and others regularly put handguns on sale.

Hmmm...  The last time I was at Fleet Farm (last year) they had far fewer firearms in stock than usual.  The cases where handguns are normally displayed were half full, and the wall where the shotguns and rifles hang were pretty picked over.  From what I have heard, manufacturers sold out of what was available and were having trouble keeping up with demand.  Since last year, demand seems to have receded somewhat.  The new SCOTUS decision may help even more since people may worry less about new laws preventing them from buying.

<shrug> I see they have several in their weekly ad, including a Ruger 9, a Taurus 9, and a Remington 870. The last time I was at the Baxter store, they had good stock. Locally, L & M Fleet Supply has a large, well-stocked gun department with a good selection. It seems that the greater shortage is ammo.
Don Kirchner

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James_Gale

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #718 on: June 24, 2022, 10:14:34 AM »

peter_speckhard

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Re: Roe v. Wade overturned?
« Reply #719 on: June 24, 2022, 10:28:07 AM »
What a glorious day!