Author Topic: What Were They Thinking?  (Read 1631 times)

Steven W Bohler

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2022, 04:08:39 PM »
On Palm Sundays, I did not preach a  sermon.
I let the liturgy tell the palm Sunday story. Then, often at the very end of the service, I would read the entire Passion Narrative, usually from St. Luke. This was a “staged” reading, with some movement, occasionally music, and other things to make it more than just a “reading.” That way people got the whole palm Sunday story and the whole Passion (in case they were not going to be in church again until Easter Sunday.)

Same. We typically had the choir sing 4-5 anthems at strategic points in the narrative. Occasionally we had a choral composition that told the whole passion (like Bach's passions, but contemporary). Service usually lasted 90 minutes, but so what?

Those of us with multiple point parishes do not have the luxury of lengthy or "overtime" services.  I have three Sunday morning services -- 8:00, 9:30, and 11:00 -- each with a 20 minute drive between them.  It is sort of like dominoes: if the 8:00 service goes long, then the 9:30 will start late and end even later, and the 11:00 service won't begin until going on noon.  Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2022, 04:10:05 PM »
I happened to have handy a copy of the Evangelical Lutheran Hymn-Book, 1931 edition (CPH), and I looked up the propers for the "Sixth Sunday in Lent" also known as "Palmarum".  The appointed gospel reading was Matthew 21:1-9, the Triumphal Entry. There is no mention of "Sunday of the Passion".  The next entry is then for "Monday in Holy Week" where the appointed gospel reading is followed by "or the Passion History".  This is included for all the rest of the days of Holy Week up through Good Friday.

In our Service Book and Hymnal, "Passion Sunday" is the fifth in Lent. Palmarum is the sixth, yet the Gospel reading is Matthew 21:1--9 with an alternate of Matthew 26:1--27:66.
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Charles Austin

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2022, 04:16:02 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Me:
No, you are not “forced.” You have accepted limitations on your liturgies because you want them on the radio. (And just how does radio do liturgy?)
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

D. Engebretson

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2022, 04:50:35 PM »
I happened to have handy a copy of the Evangelical Lutheran Hymn-Book, 1931 edition (CPH), and I looked up the propers for the "Sixth Sunday in Lent" also known as "Palmarum".  The appointed gospel reading was Matthew 21:1-9, the Triumphal Entry. There is no mention of "Sunday of the Passion".  The next entry is then for "Monday in Holy Week" where the appointed gospel reading is followed by "or the Passion History".  This is included for all the rest of the days of Holy Week up through Good Friday.

In our Service Book and Hymnal, "Passion Sunday" is the fifth in Lent. Palmarum is the sixth, yet the Gospel reading is Matthew 21:1--9 with an alternate of Matthew 26:1--27:66.

I know your parish is an independent Lutheran church.  Were they ALC or LCA prior to this?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

peter_speckhard

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2022, 05:12:56 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Me:
No, you are not “forced.” You have accepted limitations on your liturgies because you want them on the radio. (And just how does radio do liturgy?)
Wow. Really contorting yourself to be contrarian here. The meaning is obvious. The radio format constrains service times just like the drive between services constrains service times, so they don’t do extra long services. Sheesh. Nobody was blaming it on the radio station.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2022, 05:20:33 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Me:
No, you are not “forced.” You have accepted limitations on your liturgies because you want them on the radio. (And just how does radio do liturgy?)

You know, some posts (like this one of yours) are really not worth the time/effort of a response.

Chuck

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2022, 05:38:54 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Me:
No, you are not “forced.” You have accepted limitations on your liturgies because you want them on the radio. (And just how does radio do liturgy?)
Wow. Really contorting yourself to be contrarian here. The meaning is obvious. The radio format constrains service times just like the drive between services constrains service times, so they don’t do extra long services. Sheesh. Nobody was blaming it on the radio station.


Wrong, Peter. The FCC requires station identification at the top-of-the-hour, but there is no regulation limiting how long a program lasts. You own the station, so a program can be an hour, 10 hours, or 1:12 hours.
Chuck Ruthroff

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. —George Bernard Shaw

Charles Austin

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2022, 06:15:01 PM »
It is a serious question, folks. The liturgy is composed of music, words, actions, visual things such as candles, vestments and a setting, The chancel. Not to mention the participation of those present.
Radio consists of one thing - sound.
So how does liturgy translate to radio?
What must you do to your liturgy to make it an effective thing on the radio? Do you do anything?
Squeezing it into a one hour time slot, if you have to do that, is only one thing.

Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2022, 06:20:22 PM »
I happened to have handy a copy of the Evangelical Lutheran Hymn-Book, 1931 edition (CPH), and I looked up the propers for the "Sixth Sunday in Lent" also known as "Palmarum".  The appointed gospel reading was Matthew 21:1-9, the Triumphal Entry. There is no mention of "Sunday of the Passion".  The next entry is then for "Monday in Holy Week" where the appointed gospel reading is followed by "or the Passion History".  This is included for all the rest of the days of Holy Week up through Good Friday.

In our Service Book and Hymnal, "Passion Sunday" is the fifth in Lent. Palmarum is the sixth, yet the Gospel reading is Matthew 21:1--9 with an alternate of Matthew 26:1--27:66.

I know your parish is an independent Lutheran church.  Were they ALC or LCA prior to this?

They were ALC and departed at the time the ELCA formed, voting not to go into the merger.

Correction: the Passion history we use is The History of the Passion of Our Lord from the Service Book and Hymnal (Philadelphia: Muhlenburg Press, 1959). It begins with the Passover preparation.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2022, 08:06:07 PM »
It is a serious question, folks. The liturgy is composed of music, words, actions, visual things such as candles, vestments and a setting, The chancel. Not to mention the participation of those present.
Radio consists of one thing - sound.
So how does liturgy translate to radio?
What must you do to your liturgy to make it an effective thing on the radio? Do you do anything?
Squeezing it into a one hour time slot, if you have to do that, is only one thing.

Have you never listened to a worship service on the radio?  It is hardly a new concept or practice, you know. 

Steven W Bohler

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2022, 08:12:21 PM »
Pastor Bohler:
Also, being on the radio rather forces us to stay within an hour timeframe.

Me:
No, you are not “forced.” You have accepted limitations on your liturgies because you want them on the radio. (And just how does radio do liturgy?)
Wow. Really contorting yourself to be contrarian here. The meaning is obvious. The radio format constrains service times just like the drive between services constrains service times, so they don’t do extra long services. Sheesh. Nobody was blaming it on the radio station.


Wrong, Peter. The FCC requires station identification at the top-of-the-hour, but there is no regulation limiting how long a program lasts. You own the station, so a program can be an hour, 10 hours, or 1:12 hours.

We do not own a radio station.  We purchase time between 8:00 and 9:00 AM on Sunday mornings.  I believe the Bible Baptist church is on before us and Trinity (ELCA) afterwards, but I could be wrong as I am kinda busy at that time.  I think the station charges us $125 for the roughly one hour we get.  I always say it is the best money we spend: LOTS of non-members listen (including many members of other churches, as they get ready for their own services later in the morning).  Shortly after I arrived in Crookston, I got a letter from a woman near the Canadian border who said if the weather cooperated, she listened to us weekly.  The radio station is now available via internet and so a few years back we had a former member and her husband listen north of the Arctic Circle where they were teaching Eskimo children.

Dan Fienen

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2022, 08:30:52 PM »
It is a serious question, folks. The liturgy is composed of music, words, actions, visual things such as candles, vestments and a setting, The chancel. Not to mention the participation of those present.
Radio consists of one thing - sound.
So how does liturgy translate to radio?
What must you do to your liturgy to make it an effective thing on the radio? Do you do anything?
Squeezing it into a one hour time slot, if you have to do that, is only one thing.

Have you never listened to a worship service on the radio?  It is hardly a new concept or practice, you know.
have you ever ,intended to baseball on the radio?  How could you?!? _ounm8ss seeing the players, smelling the stadium, the feel of the crowd. Not the same as being there. Why would anyone bother?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

peter_speckhard

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2022, 08:49:27 PM »
The point is that if you’re going to offer your services via the radio, you have to tailor the length of your services unless you want the listener cut off in the middle. Same as if you’re have consecutive services in your own church. We have a busy Sunday schedule. We got a new associate who came from a small church where there was nothing really going on Sunday morning but the one service. The first Sunday he preached here everything else on the docket got messed up because his sermon was a good fifteen minutes or twenty longer than what we’re used to. He had to get used to the idea that he can’t just talk as long as it takes to say what he wants to say; other people were making plans around a service within a ballpark timeframe.

Jim Butler

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2022, 09:46:59 PM »
It is a serious question, folks. The liturgy is composed of music, words, actions, visual things such as candles, vestments and a setting, The chancel. Not to mention the participation of those present.
Radio consists of one thing - sound.
So how does liturgy translate to radio?
What must you do to your liturgy to make it an effective thing on the radio? Do you do anything?
Squeezing it into a one hour time slot, if you have to do that, is only one thing.

I've never personally served in a church that broadcast its services. However...

1) When I was in high school, I used to listen to Trinity, Mission, KS, which broadcast every Sunday.

2) Immanuel, Higginsville, MO, also broadcast its services and I used to attend there every Sunday.

3) Redeemer, Rockford, IL, used to broadcast its early service. I preached there on occasion when the pastor was on vacation.

You listen to the liturgy. It's much like listening to a baseball, football, or basketball game. You don't get to see everything, but you get most of what's going on.

Trinity in Mission always stayed within the hour. If one of the other two churches ran long--usually due to communion--then the announcer would cut away at that time. It's not all that difficult.
The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time. -- VP Kamala Harris

Chuck

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Re: What Were They Thinking?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2022, 09:58:22 PM »
We do not own a radio station.  We purchase time between 8:00 and 9:00 AM on Sunday mornings.  I believe the Bible Baptist church is on before us and Trinity (ELCA) afterwards, but I could be wrong as I am kinda busy at that time.  I think the station charges us $125 for the roughly one hour we get.  I always say it is the best money we spend: LOTS of non-members listen (including many members of other churches, as they get ready for their own services later in the morning).  Shortly after I arrived in Crookston, I got a letter from a woman near the Canadian border who said if the weather cooperated, she listened to us weekly.  The radio station is now available via internet and so a few years back we had a former member and her husband listen north of the Arctic Circle where they were teaching Eskimo children.


Thanks you. Makes more sense.
Chuck Ruthroff

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. —George Bernard Shaw