News:


Main Menu

Russia and Ukraine

Started by peter_speckhard, February 22, 2022, 10:55:37 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Charles Austin

There is a Wikipedia article on Lutherans in Ukraine, but there is no way to vouch for the information in it.
Iowa-born. ELCA pastor, ordained 1967. Former journalist for church and secular newspapers,  The Record (Hackensack, NJ), The New York Times, Hearst News Service. English editor for Lutheran World Federation, Geneva, Switzerland. Parish pastor, Iowa, New York, New Jersey. Retired in Minneapolis.

D. Engebretson

https://celc.info/membership/member-churches/ukrainian-lutheran-church/

Ukrainian Lutheran Church

The Ukrainian Lutheran Church is not entirely an alien phenomenon brought about to Ukraine from foreign countries, or a phenomenon that is indifferent to Ukraine's destiny and its future. It is neither a new sect or a religious trend in our country. The Ukrainian Lutheran Church has a substantial historic background in Ukraine as well as its devotees and martyrs, who gave their lives for Ukrainian Christian work.

Having Christ and His holy Word for its solid underpinning, the ULC has every ground to be called an apostolic church. Its origins go back to the times of the apostles and their faith, which is preached by the Church in the Nicene Creed. This church is alive, following the example of the forefathers of an ancient church, who were preaching after the apostles and acknowledged the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds.

The creation of a separate Lutheran church body took place only in the 16th century. At that time, faithful priests and bishops stood against abuses of the church clergy. Selling indulgences, absolution for money, neglect of the teaching of the Word of God to laymen, and many other things were among those abuses. That action for a church renewal headed by professor Martin Luther in Germany grew into the Reformation, which seized (engulfed) the better part of Europe, including Ukraine. Major slogans of the church renewal became salvation through faith in Christ with God's grace. The main principles of faith should rely only on the Holy Scripture (Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura).

Due to the Reformation, the Word of God was translated into European languages, including Ukrainian (Peresop Gospel is based on Lutheran Bible translations; Presidents of Ukraine are attested on it), and the church preached pure Gospel, turning into a truly people's church that cared about the salvation of its faithful people. That church was called the Evangelical Church of Augsburg Confession. Universal Creeds and the Augsburg Confession, which explained the necessity of reformation of certain aspects of church life, served as an underpinning for the confession.

Many Lutheran congregations appeared in Ukraine in the 16th century. According to prominent Ukrainian historian Mykhailo Hrushevsky, Lutheran churches were numerous in Galicia, Pobuzhzhya, Volyn, Podillya, Bratslavschyna, and the Kyiv area (see M. Hryshevsky "On the History of Religious Thought in Ukraine," Winnipeg, Canada – Munich Germany – Detroit, USA 1962, pp. 63-67). Thanks to their influence, as it was noted by the scholar, the native language was picked up by the orthodox church. At that time, there was vigorous discussion of the possibility (on the basis of the main articles of faith) of unity between orthodox Christians and protestants. One of the initiators of that reunification was Prince Kostyantyn Ostrozky. The church unification failed due to the resistance of high priests. According to numerous leading historians, they later, during growing Catholic reaction, neglected the interests of their people. The Catholic movement, which was supported by the civil authorities, resulted not only in the almost total disappearance of Lutheranism in Ukraine, but also in the considerable decline of spiritual life in this country. One can find testimonies of that in the works of M. Hrushevsky, Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Autocepalous Orthodox Church in Canada Ilarion (secular name Ivan Ohiyenko) in the recently published book Ukrainian Church (Kyiv, Ukraine, 1993, pp. 102-145).

The second renaissance Ukrainian Lutheranism experienced was in the period between the First and Second World Wars. There was a chance to openly preach Christ in the western regions of Ukraine, which were under Polish occupation. After the defeat of the Ukrainian revolution and the collapse of the Ukrainian independent state, many people were analyzing reasons of numerous misfortunes of Ukrainian people and their faith; they were pondering the necessity to preach pure Gospel and have the Ukrainian Evangelical Church. A group of orthodox and Greek-Catholic priests turned to ancient evangelical principles. They managed to unite a considerable number of faithful into the Ukrainian Evangelical Church of Augsburg Confession, the direct ancestor of the present Lutheran church. This church managed to preserve and develop the eastern Ukrainian custom/worship, which is based on the liturgy developed by John the Chrisosdom. While preaching the pure evangelical theology, the church remains a national church of Ukrainian identity.

During a short period of time, its congregations sprang up all over the territories, which are now referred to as Galicia and Volyn. The main center was located in Stanislav (now Ivano-Frankivsk). Pastor Teodor Yarchuk was a Ukrainian spiritual guide. In 1931 in a periodical "See the Light!" ("Prozry!"), he in particular wrote,"We are Ukrainian evangelists. We love our Ukrainian people and customs of our forefathers. Despite all kinds of slander against us, we strive for spiritual renewal of Ukrainian people on the basis of truth of the divine Gospel. We look at Ukrainian men of genius Hryhoriy Skovoroda and Petro Kulish."

In a short run, the church included thousands of faithful who were at the same time patriots of Ukraine. There were congregations in Stanislav, Mykytyntsi, Krekhivtsi, Lutsk, Stari Bohorodchany, Kaminna, Zarvanytsya, Antonivka, Poberezhzhi, and in many other towns and villages. Churches were built, Sunday schools worked. The church also had a publishing house. One of the ULC leaders in the 1930s, Yuhym Folushnyak, wrote about the church, "Being native and inseparable part of Ukrainian soul... the church feels pains and troubles of the people and their needs... It can bring the Ukrainian nation great spiritual benefits, since people would then get rid of spiritual slavery and would reach considerable development and progress the way the other nations have reached" ("Styah" Banner, 1932 , issue #1, pp. 3,4).

The year 1939 turned out to be a tragedy for the church. Leaders of the ULC were arrested and killed by the KGB, literature was confiscated, and a lot of faithful died in prisons and concentration camps. Pastor Mykhailo Tymchuk managed to emigrate to the USA, taking along a couple of confessional books. He had a dream to someday return to Ukraine and revive the Church. Unfortunately, he died in emigration. However, shortly before his death, he gave his blessing to representatives of the Thoughts of Faith mission society.

Since 1979, this mission society has started activity to revive the Ukrainian Lutheran Church, which was destroyed by the communist regime. At the same time, Thoughts of Faith, just as its predecessors did, promoted the course of the revival of Ukrainian independence.

Since Ukraine declared its independence in 1991, ULC congregations have been organized in Kyiv, Lviv, Ternopil, Kremenets, Zaporizhzhya, Sevastopol, Simferopol, Kharkiv, Mykolayiv, Kherson, Mariupol, and other towns in Ukraine. They are preaching the evangelical truth, following the example of Pastor Teodor Yarchuk and other church fathers. In 1996, the ULC Episcopate was officially registered. The church continues ancient evangelical traditions of preaching and the revival of Ukrainian spirituality. Young pastors, future preachers of the church, receive their education at the Ukrainian Lutheran Theological Seminary of St. Sophia, which is located in Ternopil, Western Ukraine.

The church is not involved in the political life of the country. However, through its educational, humanitarian activities and through the revival of spiritual values, the ULC contributes to the strengthening of the democratic Ukrainian state.
Church Body Statistics

Members: 2,500
Established Congregations: 24
Mission Congregations: 12
National Pastors: 18

Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

D. Engebretson

There is also the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Ukraine, with the Rev. Serge Maschewski as its bishop.

German Evangelical Lutheran Church in Ukraine

The first Еvangelic-Lutheran communities were organized in the territory of modern Ukraine in ХVI century. The members of the new parishes were immigrants from Western Europe, and often the local inhabitants.

In 1811, Ukrainian Lutherans of Sweden and German traditions united in one autocephalous Evangelic-Lutheran Church with the institution of Bishop's cathedral in Odesa. During this period, in many cities and villages, churches were built, new parishes were organized, educational institutions, hospitals, and charities were opened. The main centers of the development of the Lutheran confession became the regions of the Black Sea region, Crimea, Bessarabia, Galicia, and Middle Dnieper.

In 1832, the greatest part of the Evangelic-Lutheran parishes, as the separate church districts, joined the Evangelic-Lutheran Church of the Russian Empire. Some of the parishes, according to the territorial principle, became the part of Romanian and Astro-Hungarian Evangelic-Lutheran Church.

According to the population census in the year 1913, the number of Evangelic-Lutheran believers was 1.1 million people.

In 1918, Evangelic-Lutheran Church in Ukraine became autocephalous. St. Paul's Cathedral becomes the Church seat, which included the Bishop's residence. This church complex in Odessa is now an architectural monument of national importance.

Up to 1938, owing to criminal antichurch deeds of the communist regime and Stalin's terror, most of the parishes were closed, temples nationalized, church items and artifacts expropriated, clergy were repressed and many of them were shot. Some of the parishes in the West of Ukraine avoided such a fate but after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, they repeated the destiny of their coreligionists. In 1941 entire Evangelic-Lutheran population of Ukraine was deported to Siberian and Kazakhstan.

Nevertheless, in some places believers miraculously avoided deportation, and they gathered underground for praying and reading the Bible.

In 1988 in the Soviet Union under the guidance of Bishop Kalnynsh, the German Evangelic-Lutheran Church of the USSR reactivates. In Ukraine, the Evangelic-Lutheran Church, being the assignee of the ELC of the Russian Empire, was revived at the Synod in the year 1992, in which the parishes of Odesa, Dnipropetrovsk, Kyiv, and Lviv took part.   

Now GELCU is an autocephaly independent Church with a synodic-episcopal form of governing. The spiritual and administrative center is situated in Odesa, where the Cathedral and Bishop's Office are settled. Today Church consists of seven regional dean's offices, which unite the parishes of the whole territory of Ukraine.

GELCU professes the Holy Scripture of the Old and New Testament as single-origin and infallible norm of the church teaching and deeds, confessing the Apostles', Nicene and Athanasian Creed, Augsburg Confession, and Small Catechism of Dr. Martin Luther as true and pure explanations of God's Word and Church Tradition.

Contacts

Office address: 68 Novoselskogo st., Odesa, Ukraine 65023

Phone: +38 048 777 32 61, fax: +38 048 777 36 29

E-mail: office@delku.com.ua   

Website: delku.com.ua


These are the Ukrainian Lutherans that the LCMS are currently supporting.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

John_Hannah

#228
It is now D+21, three weeks. Some professional military analysts say that the Russian forces have reached their culminating point, that is where they can go no farther. It seems likely to me. That for lack of re-supply (food, fuel, ammo) and the morale of soldiers. Reportedly the Chinese have been asked for MREs (Meals Ready to Eat). If true it's a sign of being way behind the plan as well as poor planning in general. Internal Russian government corruption may be a factor too. There are reports of Russian soldiers deserting their vehicles. Ukrainian forces are commandeering or otherwise capturing them. Putin then joins all the friends of Ukraine in contributing security assistance (weapons).

It is unfortunate that a major counterattack cannot be mounted. This would be the time. Hit'em when they're down. The no fly zone is not a good idea. Technically it's questionable if the Polish fighters are compatible with existing Ukrainian ground equipment (electronics). Furthermore, the enormous atrocities are coming mostly from ground based artillery or rockets and not from planes. Then the primary restraint is fear of escalation into WW III and Russia introducing weapons of mass destruction.

We must avoid that. Eventually the collapse of the ground forces might bring some kind of cease fire and negotiation toward settlement. I would hope that it is one that can be agreeable to Ukraine.

In the meantime, pray for the soldiers on both sides and for the leadership of Ukraine.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

John_Hannah

Off and on I've caught glimpses of Ukrainian chaplains without any explanation. They are dressed in uniform with a broad, bright Orthodox stole over. Anybody know more?

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

J. Thomas Shelley

A very good read, and on many levels, a call to repentance:

https://americanmind.org/salvo/idol-of-the-week/
Greek Orthodox Deacon -Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

D. Engebretson

Pope Francis and Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow met yesterday via video.  I wonder if Kirill will yet try to implore Putin toward peace.  Kirill has been quite supportive of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and has also touted an rather interesting defense using "gay parades" as some sort of indication of the overall corruption of the west vs. the east.  It was a polite meeting, but I have my reservations about whether it moved the needle on Kirill's position regarding the "war".  But I could be wrong....


https://religionnews.com/2022/03/16/pope-francis-and-patriarch-kirill-discuss-ukraine-war-for-first-time/?fbclid=IwAR2C5DZ23209_uR_srtcn6RtvclX6ztZk04ZAMENZHMcq2LykanB9FlqzVA
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

RDPreus

Quote from: D. Engebretson on March 16, 2022, 08:42:17 AM
https://celc.info/membership/member-churches/ukrainian-lutheran-church/

Ukrainian Lutheran Church

The Ukrainian Lutheran Church is not entirely an alien phenomenon brought about to Ukraine from foreign countries, or a phenomenon that is indifferent to Ukraine's destiny and its future. It is neither a new sect or a religious trend in our country. The Ukrainian Lutheran Church has a substantial historic background in Ukraine as well as its devotees and martyrs, who gave their lives for Ukrainian Christian work.

Having Christ and His holy Word for its solid underpinning, the ULC has every ground to be called an apostolic church. Its origins go back to the times of the apostles and their faith, which is preached by the Church in the Nicene Creed. This church is alive, following the example of the forefathers of an ancient church, who were preaching after the apostles and acknowledged the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds.

The creation of a separate Lutheran church body took place only in the 16th century. At that time, faithful priests and bishops stood against abuses of the church clergy. Selling indulgences, absolution for money, neglect of the teaching of the Word of God to laymen, and many other things were among those abuses. That action for a church renewal headed by professor Martin Luther in Germany grew into the Reformation, which seized (engulfed) the better part of Europe, including Ukraine. Major slogans of the church renewal became salvation through faith in Christ with God's grace. The main principles of faith should rely only on the Holy Scripture (Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura).

Due to the Reformation, the Word of God was translated into European languages, including Ukrainian (Peresop Gospel is based on Lutheran Bible translations; Presidents of Ukraine are attested on it), and the church preached pure Gospel, turning into a truly people's church that cared about the salvation of its faithful people. That church was called the Evangelical Church of Augsburg Confession. Universal Creeds and the Augsburg Confession, which explained the necessity of reformation of certain aspects of church life, served as an underpinning for the confession.

Many Lutheran congregations appeared in Ukraine in the 16th century. According to prominent Ukrainian historian Mykhailo Hrushevsky, Lutheran churches were numerous in Galicia, Pobuzhzhya, Volyn, Podillya, Bratslavschyna, and the Kyiv area (see M. Hryshevsky "On the History of Religious Thought in Ukraine," Winnipeg, Canada – Munich Germany – Detroit, USA 1962, pp. 63-67). Thanks to their influence, as it was noted by the scholar, the native language was picked up by the orthodox church. At that time, there was vigorous discussion of the possibility (on the basis of the main articles of faith) of unity between orthodox Christians and protestants. One of the initiators of that reunification was Prince Kostyantyn Ostrozky. The church unification failed due to the resistance of high priests. According to numerous leading historians, they later, during growing Catholic reaction, neglected the interests of their people. The Catholic movement, which was supported by the civil authorities, resulted not only in the almost total disappearance of Lutheranism in Ukraine, but also in the considerable decline of spiritual life in this country. One can find testimonies of that in the works of M. Hrushevsky, Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Autocepalous Orthodox Church in Canada Ilarion (secular name Ivan Ohiyenko) in the recently published book Ukrainian Church (Kyiv, Ukraine, 1993, pp. 102-145).

The second renaissance Ukrainian Lutheranism experienced was in the period between the First and Second World Wars. There was a chance to openly preach Christ in the western regions of Ukraine, which were under Polish occupation. After the defeat of the Ukrainian revolution and the collapse of the Ukrainian independent state, many people were analyzing reasons of numerous misfortunes of Ukrainian people and their faith; they were pondering the necessity to preach pure Gospel and have the Ukrainian Evangelical Church. A group of orthodox and Greek-Catholic priests turned to ancient evangelical principles. They managed to unite a considerable number of faithful into the Ukrainian Evangelical Church of Augsburg Confession, the direct ancestor of the present Lutheran church. This church managed to preserve and develop the eastern Ukrainian custom/worship, which is based on the liturgy developed by John the Chrisosdom. While preaching the pure evangelical theology, the church remains a national church of Ukrainian identity.

During a short period of time, its congregations sprang up all over the territories, which are now referred to as Galicia and Volyn. The main center was located in Stanislav (now Ivano-Frankivsk). Pastor Teodor Yarchuk was a Ukrainian spiritual guide. In 1931 in a periodical "See the Light!" ("Prozry!"), he in particular wrote,"We are Ukrainian evangelists. We love our Ukrainian people and customs of our forefathers. Despite all kinds of slander against us, we strive for spiritual renewal of Ukrainian people on the basis of truth of the divine Gospel. We look at Ukrainian men of genius Hryhoriy Skovoroda and Petro Kulish."

In a short run, the church included thousands of faithful who were at the same time patriots of Ukraine. There were congregations in Stanislav, Mykytyntsi, Krekhivtsi, Lutsk, Stari Bohorodchany, Kaminna, Zarvanytsya, Antonivka, Poberezhzhi, and in many other towns and villages. Churches were built, Sunday schools worked. The church also had a publishing house. One of the ULC leaders in the 1930s, Yuhym Folushnyak, wrote about the church, "Being native and inseparable part of Ukrainian soul... the church feels pains and troubles of the people and their needs... It can bring the Ukrainian nation great spiritual benefits, since people would then get rid of spiritual slavery and would reach considerable development and progress the way the other nations have reached" ("Styah" Banner, 1932 , issue #1, pp. 3,4).

The year 1939 turned out to be a tragedy for the church. Leaders of the ULC were arrested and killed by the KGB, literature was confiscated, and a lot of faithful died in prisons and concentration camps. Pastor Mykhailo Tymchuk managed to emigrate to the USA, taking along a couple of confessional books. He had a dream to someday return to Ukraine and revive the Church. Unfortunately, he died in emigration. However, shortly before his death, he gave his blessing to representatives of the Thoughts of Faith mission society.

Since 1979, this mission society has started activity to revive the Ukrainian Lutheran Church, which was destroyed by the communist regime. At the same time, Thoughts of Faith, just as its predecessors did, promoted the course of the revival of Ukrainian independence.

Since Ukraine declared its independence in 1991, ULC congregations have been organized in Kyiv, Lviv, Ternopil, Kremenets, Zaporizhzhya, Sevastopol, Simferopol, Kharkiv, Mykolayiv, Kherson, Mariupol, and other towns in Ukraine. They are preaching the evangelical truth, following the example of Pastor Teodor Yarchuk and other church fathers. In 1996, the ULC Episcopate was officially registered. The church continues ancient evangelical traditions of preaching and the revival of Ukrainian spirituality. Young pastors, future preachers of the church, receive their education at the Ukrainian Lutheran Theological Seminary of St. Sophia, which is located in Ternopil, Western Ukraine.

The church is not involved in the political life of the country. However, through its educational, humanitarian activities and through the revival of spiritual values, the ULC contributes to the strengthening of the democratic Ukrainian state.
Church Body Statistics

Members: 2,500
Established Congregations: 24
Mission Congregations: 12
National Pastors: 18


I taught at the Lutheran Theological Seminary of St. Sophia in Ternopil' several times between 1998 and 2003.  The rector would ask pastors, mostly from the ELS to which I belonged at the time, to come over and teach two-week concentrated classes.  It was quite rewarding.  Ternopil' is in western Ukraine.  We would visit Kiev for synod gatherings.  It's hard to believe that this city is being destroyed.  I usually flew out of Lviv.  That's a beautiful city.  I enjoyed Ternopil'.  Hardly anyone could speak English and I couldn't speak Ukrainian, so an English speaking student would accompany me when I walked to class or around town.  I think of my former students and the congregations they serve in Ukraine and I pray that God will have mercy on them and protect them.

prsauer

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 16, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
It is now D+21, three weeks. Some professional military analysts say that the Russian forces have reached their culminating point, that is where they can go no farther. It seems likely to me. That for lack of re-supply (food, fuel, ammo) and the morale of soldiers. Reportedly the Chinese have been asked for MREs (Meals Ready to Eat). If true it's a sign of being way behind the plan as well as poor planning in general. Internal Russian government corruption may be a factor too. There are reports of Russian soldiers deserting their vehicles. Ukrainian forces are commandeering or otherwise capturing them. Putin then joins all the friends of Ukraine in contributing security assistance (weapons).

It is unfortunate that a major counterattack cannot be mounted. This would be the time. Hit'em when they're down. The no fly zone is not a good idea. Technically it's questionable if the Polish fighters are compatible with existing Ukrainian ground equipment (electronics). Furthermore, the enormous atrocities are coming mostly from ground based artillery or rockets and not from planes. Then the primary restraint is fear of escalation into WW III and Russia introducing weapons of mass destruction.

We must avoid that. Eventually the collapse of the ground forces might bring some kind of cease fire and negotiation toward settlement. I would hope that it is one that can be agreeable to Ukraine.

In the meantime, pray for the soldiers on both sides and for the leadership of Ukraine.

Peace, JOHN

John,

Admittedly I am biased, but the experience of the Russian military, especially their unbelievably poor logistics (as one of my grunts put it- "I will never make fun of a POG again") and indiscriminate and imprecise bombing, sheds light on how remarkable our military behaved over the last 20 years of war. Reportedly, Russia has lost more of its Soldiers in 2 weeks than we did in a 20 year multi-front war. The consistent precision of US strikes and regard for innocent human life stands in stark contrast to the way Russia is operating. To be sure the US had its share of mistakes, but compared to the daily carnage we are witnessing in the Ukraine, I have gained a newfound appreciation for the professionalism of the American Military at a time when many on both sides of the political aisle are comfortable speaking about its decline.

May wiser heads within the Russian military prevail and bring this to an end.

Paul

peter_speckhard

Quote from: prsauer on March 17, 2022, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on March 16, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
It is now D+21, three weeks. Some professional military analysts say that the Russian forces have reached their culminating point, that is where they can go no farther. It seems likely to me. That for lack of re-supply (food, fuel, ammo) and the morale of soldiers. Reportedly the Chinese have been asked for MREs (Meals Ready to Eat). If true it's a sign of being way behind the plan as well as poor planning in general. Internal Russian government corruption may be a factor too. There are reports of Russian soldiers deserting their vehicles. Ukrainian forces are commandeering or otherwise capturing them. Putin then joins all the friends of Ukraine in contributing security assistance (weapons).

It is unfortunate that a major counterattack cannot be mounted. This would be the time. Hit'em when they're down. The no fly zone is not a good idea. Technically it's questionable if the Polish fighters are compatible with existing Ukrainian ground equipment (electronics). Furthermore, the enormous atrocities are coming mostly from ground based artillery or rockets and not from planes. Then the primary restraint is fear of escalation into WW III and Russia introducing weapons of mass destruction.

We must avoid that. Eventually the collapse of the ground forces might bring some kind of cease fire and negotiation toward settlement. I would hope that it is one that can be agreeable to Ukraine.

In the meantime, pray for the soldiers on both sides and for the leadership of Ukraine.

Peace, JOHN

John,

Admittedly I am biased, but the experience of the Russian military, especially their unbelievably poor logistics (as one of my grunts put it- "I will never make fun of a POG again") and indiscriminate and imprecise bombing, sheds light on how remarkable our military behaved over the last 20 years of war. Reportedly, Russia has lost more of its Soldiers in 2 weeks than we did in a 20 year multi-front war. The consistent precision of US strikes and regard for innocent human life stands in stark contrast to the way Russia is operating. To be sure the US had its share of mistakes, but compared to the daily carnage we are witnessing in the Ukraine, I have gained a newfound appreciation for the professionalism of the American Military at a time when many on both sides of the political aisle are comfortable speaking about its decline.

May wiser heads within the Russian military prevail and bring this to an end.

Paul
Some of the reports indicate that the Russian military is like an aging, declining congregation. First continuing ed/training goes, followed by routine maintenance, because there is no immediate cost to not doing those things. Then upgrades get axed because we don't really need them. Then when something goes wrong morale takes a outsized hit because this one thing seems emblematic of everything, causing some to leave. That means people who lack the requisite skills have to fill in various positions. And so it goes. What seems like a venerable institution goes under gradually, then suddenly.

All the history suggests that Russia plays tenacious, never-say-die defense when invaded but stinks on offense. Ironically, Putin's claim that Ukraine is really part of greater Russia means, by his logic, that he thought it would be a good idea to invade Russia in winter, which is the hallmark of a truly slow learner. The war (again, by Putin's logic) pits Russia's offense against Russia's defense, with Putin's money on the former. Bad bet. Say what you want about Russians lackluster advance, but there is no deyning they can get downright testy about being invaded.

prsauer

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 16, 2022, 03:43:56 PM
Off and on I've caught glimpses of Ukrainian chaplains without any explanation. They are dressed in uniform with a broad, bright Orthodox stole over. Anybody know more?

Peace, JOHN

This article from pre-invasion Ukraine describes the role of Military Chaplains.

https://risu.ua/en/102-chaplains-officially-serve-in-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine_n123998

Their chaplain corps seems to have officially been established as a part of the Ukrainian military in 2021. Until then they had served as volunteers outside of the military structure. Here is an article on its establishment (translated from Ukrainian). Many of the details sound familiar...:

QuoteThe corresponding bill 4626 "On the Service of Military Chaplaincy" at a meeting on Tuesday in the second reading was supported by 291 people's deputies.
This is reported by Ukrinform.

"This law regulates relations in the field of realization of the constitutional right to freedom of outlook and religion of servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard of Ukraine, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine, as well as determines the legal and organizational principles and principles of the Military Chaplaincy Service," the document says.

The service of military chaplaincy is formed as a separate structure within the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine, the type of which depends on the scope, nature and complexity of measures to meet the spiritual and religious needs of their military administration body, uniting, military unit, military educational institution, institution and organization. In a military unit at the level of a separate battalion, the functions of the Military Chaplaincy Service can be performed by one military chaplain.

The relevant military chaplaincy services are subordinated directly to the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Commander of the National Guard of Ukraine, the heads of other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the Head of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine.

The maximum number of the Military Chaplaincy Service may not be less than 0.15% of the maximum number, respectively, of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the State Border Guard Service.

A military chaplain can be a citizen of Ukraine who is a cleric of a religious organization registered in Ukraine and received a mandate from the governing center (management) of the relevant religious organization for the right to carry out military chaplaincy activities.

A mandatory requirement for the position of military chaplain is the presence of higher theological education (this norm begins to operate 5 years after the entry into force of the law).

A person who is restricted by law in connections, military units and units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, to other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine and the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine cannot be a military chaplain.

Information about a person who became known to the military chaplain during the implementation of military chaplaincy is confidential.

The military chaplain has the right not to answer questions about the facts and circumstances that became known to him during the confession.

In order to properly organize the satisfaction of the spiritual and religious needs of the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, the State Border Guard Service, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the introduction of appropriate quotas of confessional representation is envisaged.

It is planned to create as advisory bodies interfaith councils on military chaplaincy under the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

https://risu.ua/verhovna-rada-uhvalila-zakon-pro-sluzhbu-vijskovogo-kapelanstva_n123874



John_Hannah

Quote from: prsauer on March 17, 2022, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on March 16, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
It is now D+21, three weeks. Some professional military analysts say that the Russian forces have reached their culminating point, that is where they can go no farther. It seems likely to me. That for lack of re-supply (food, fuel, ammo) and the morale of soldiers. Reportedly the Chinese have been asked for MREs (Meals Ready to Eat). If true it's a sign of being way behind the plan as well as poor planning in general. Internal Russian government corruption may be a factor too. There are reports of Russian soldiers deserting their vehicles. Ukrainian forces are commandeering or otherwise capturing them. Putin then joins all the friends of Ukraine in contributing security assistance (weapons).

It is unfortunate that a major counterattack cannot be mounted. This would be the time. Hit'em when they're down. The no fly zone is not a good idea. Technically it's questionable if the Polish fighters are compatible with existing Ukrainian ground equipment (electronics). Furthermore, the enormous atrocities are coming mostly from ground based artillery or rockets and not from planes. Then the primary restraint is fear of escalation into WW III and Russia introducing weapons of mass destruction.

We must avoid that. Eventually the collapse of the ground forces might bring some kind of cease fire and negotiation toward settlement. I would hope that it is one that can be agreeable to Ukraine.

In the meantime, pray for the soldiers on both sides and for the leadership of Ukraine.

Peace, JOHN

John,

Admittedly I am biased, but the experience of the Russian military, especially their unbelievably poor logistics (as one of my grunts put it- "I will never make fun of a POG again") and indiscriminate and imprecise bombing, sheds light on how remarkable our military behaved over the last 20 years of war. Reportedly, Russia has lost more of its Soldiers in 2 weeks than we did in a 20 year multi-front war. The consistent precision of US strikes and regard for innocent human life stands in stark contrast to the way Russia is operating. To be sure the US had its share of mistakes, but compared to the daily carnage we are witnessing in the Ukraine, I have gained a newfound appreciation for the professionalism of the American Military at a time when many on both sides of the political aisle are comfortable speaking about its decline.

May wiser heads within the Russian military prevail and bring this to an end.

Paul

Indeed. The United States military services are professionally better and more honorable. Much, much so.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

John_Hannah

Quote from: peter_speckhard on March 17, 2022, 02:48:53 PM
Quote from: prsauer on March 17, 2022, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on March 16, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
It is now D+21, three weeks. Some professional military analysts say that the Russian forces have reached their culminating point, that is where they can go no farther. It seems likely to me. That for lack of re-supply (food, fuel, ammo) and the morale of soldiers. Reportedly the Chinese have been asked for MREs (Meals Ready to Eat). If true it's a sign of being way behind the plan as well as poor planning in general. Internal Russian government corruption may be a factor too. There are reports of Russian soldiers deserting their vehicles. Ukrainian forces are commandeering or otherwise capturing them. Putin then joins all the friends of Ukraine in contributing security assistance (weapons).

It is unfortunate that a major counterattack cannot be mounted. This would be the time. Hit'em when they're down. The no fly zone is not a good idea. Technically it's questionable if the Polish fighters are compatible with existing Ukrainian ground equipment (electronics). Furthermore, the enormous atrocities are coming mostly from ground based artillery or rockets and not from planes. Then the primary restraint is fear of escalation into WW III and Russia introducing weapons of mass destruction.

We must avoid that. Eventually the collapse of the ground forces might bring some kind of cease fire and negotiation toward settlement. I would hope that it is one that can be agreeable to Ukraine.

In the meantime, pray for the soldiers on both sides and for the leadership of Ukraine.

Peace, JOHN

John,

Admittedly I am biased, but the experience of the Russian military, especially their unbelievably poor logistics (as one of my grunts put it- "I will never make fun of a POG again") and indiscriminate and imprecise bombing, sheds light on how remarkable our military behaved over the last 20 years of war. Reportedly, Russia has lost more of its Soldiers in 2 weeks than we did in a 20 year multi-front war. The consistent precision of US strikes and regard for innocent human life stands in stark contrast to the way Russia is operating. To be sure the US had its share of mistakes, but compared to the daily carnage we are witnessing in the Ukraine, I have gained a newfound appreciation for the professionalism of the American Military at a time when many on both sides of the political aisle are comfortable speaking about its decline.

May wiser heads within the Russian military prevail and bring this to an end.

Paul
Some of the reports indicate that the Russian military is like an aging, declining congregation. First continuing ed/training goes, followed by routine maintenance, because there is no immediate cost to not doing those things. Then upgrades get axed because we don't really need them. Then when something goes wrong morale takes a outsized hit because this one thing seems emblematic of everything, causing some to leave. That means people who lack the requisite skills have to fill in various positions. And so it goes. What seems like a venerable institution goes under gradually, then suddenly.


An apt comparison. Then add a generous dose of corruption to account for the logistical and materiel dysfunction and unpreparedness.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

John_Hannah

Quote from: prsauer on March 17, 2022, 08:26:14 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on March 16, 2022, 03:43:56 PM
Off and on I've caught glimpses of Ukrainian chaplains without any explanation. They are dressed in uniform with a broad, bright Orthodox stole over. Anybody know more?

Peace, JOHN

This article from pre-invasion Ukraine describes the role of Military Chaplains.

https://risu.ua/en/102-chaplains-officially-serve-in-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine_n123998

Their chaplain corps seems to have officially been established as a part of the Ukrainian military in 2021. Until then they had served as volunteers outside of the military structure. Here is an article on its establishment (translated from Ukrainian). Many of the details sound familiar...:

QuoteThe corresponding bill 4626 "On the Service of Military Chaplaincy" at a meeting on Tuesday in the second reading was supported by 291 people's deputies.
This is reported by Ukrinform.

"This law regulates relations in the field of realization of the constitutional right to freedom of outlook and religion of servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard of Ukraine, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine, as well as determines the legal and organizational principles and principles of the Military Chaplaincy Service," the document says.

The service of military chaplaincy is formed as a separate structure within the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine, the type of which depends on the scope, nature and complexity of measures to meet the spiritual and religious needs of their military administration body, uniting, military unit, military educational institution, institution and organization. In a military unit at the level of a separate battalion, the functions of the Military Chaplaincy Service can be performed by one military chaplain.

The relevant military chaplaincy services are subordinated directly to the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Commander of the National Guard of Ukraine, the heads of other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the Head of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine.

The maximum number of the Military Chaplaincy Service may not be less than 0.15% of the maximum number, respectively, of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the State Border Guard Service.

A military chaplain can be a citizen of Ukraine who is a cleric of a religious organization registered in Ukraine and received a mandate from the governing center (management) of the relevant religious organization for the right to carry out military chaplaincy activities.

A mandatory requirement for the position of military chaplain is the presence of higher theological education (this norm begins to operate 5 years after the entry into force of the law).

A person who is restricted by law in connections, military units and units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, to other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine and the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine cannot be a military chaplain.

Information about a person who became known to the military chaplain during the implementation of military chaplaincy is confidential.

The military chaplain has the right not to answer questions about the facts and circumstances that became known to him during the confession.

In order to properly organize the satisfaction of the spiritual and religious needs of the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard, the State Border Guard Service, other military formations formed in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, the introduction of appropriate quotas of confessional representation is envisaged.

It is planned to create as advisory bodies interfaith councils on military chaplaincy under the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

https://risu.ua/verhovna-rada-uhvalila-zakon-pro-sluzhbu-vijskovogo-kapelanstva_n123874


Thanks for this, Paul. It appears that Ukraine has all the basic ingredients for an effective chaplaincy.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

John_Hannah

It's now D+24. Russia is not only behind schedule but increasingly stalled in place. President Biden's promised increased flow of weapons will be arriving. I expect that we'll see a major counter attack. It will only be a little here and a little more there but unrelenting. Units will be incapacitated. Reinforcements from the far east and foreign places will find little to reinforce. The Russian army will be crippled for a long time to come. That will be a good thing for the world.

Lord have mercy. Bring peace to your world.  JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk