Author Topic: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin  (Read 21232 times)

DeHall1

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wiscons
« Reply #390 on: March 09, 2022, 10:52:06 PM »
To the one posting as DeHall1: I do not answer questions from anonymous posters, who are not supposed to be here under false names.

Aren't you the dude who falsely accused me of posting under a false name and then boasted that you doxxed me? (I assume you used your ace reporting skills to dox me. Must have been hard seeing how I use my actual name. Those puff-piece PR skills  you honed at LCUSA came in handy, huh?)

Since you made a fool of yourself on that score, maybe you shouldn't accuse anyone else of posting anonymously.

FWIW, my name is De Hall (a family name, as my dad and I have the first same name). The moderators here accept it.  By all means, feel free to discuss my anonymity with them.

Charles Austin

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #391 on: March 09, 2022, 11:05:00 PM »
Pastor Butler:
And yes, your observation is no doubt "casual." So tell me, just how do you observe "huge numbers of parents" while you are in a retirement facility? Not to mention that you've been locked in for two years.

Me:
Don’t be intentionally stupid. I’m referring to my observations over many years.

Pastor Butler:
It's not that "they freak out if the schools want to" teach about sex. It's what they are teaching. Some of it is extremely graphic.
Me:
And so….? You want to talk about butterflies or bees?

Pastor Butler:
BTW, didn't anyone ever tell you that you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition?
Me:
Get a life. Are my words worth your time?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. It is now clear that the election of 2020 was not stolen. But we see now how it was nearly stolen after the balloting. Some of our top officials assisted by corrupt lawyers, attempted to steal the electoral college. Some true patriots saved us.

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #392 on: March 10, 2022, 08:39:24 AM »
When we were children in New York, the public schools had "release time" when children could go for religious training. It seemed like a fine system for accommodating both church and state, with mutually helpful benefits. I don't understand why that system was discontinued. I think many Americans would appreciate it as a way for children to learn their values without burdening the state with trying to accommodate everyone in every way.

Good news - Released Time exists and is available in most states, including Ohio:  https://releasedtime.org/

Here's the data from the site on Ohio -

In Ohio, a school district may offer the option of Released Time for religious instruction with adoption of a school district policy. The first step is to check whether a school district already has adopted a districtwide policy of Released Time for religious instruction. Furthermore, high schools can award academic credits for participation in a Released Time program provided that the programs meet certain requirements.

In addition, any Released Time program would also need to ensure compliance with the guidepost for Released Time programs provided by the U.S. Supreme Court in McCollum v. Board of Education, 333 U.S. 203 (1948) and Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306 (1952). These guideposts include:
1) The school cannot fund the Released Time program, other than de minimis administrative costs (such as the costs of a school board approving a local Released Time policy).
2) Released Time programs cannot take place on school premises; and
3) Student participation in Released Time programs must be voluntary. There cannot be any coercion, encouragement, or discouragement on the part of any school official.

However, these three points are not exclusive. One should conduct thorough research on the latest state and federal laws and court decisions to determine if there are any updated guidelines for a Released Time program to follow.

Keep in mind that school officials are not required to approve a program. However, with community support, a carefully researched approach, and a proposal consistent with state law, you should expect success in gaining approval for the program.


Dave Benke

Mike in Pennsylvania

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #393 on: March 10, 2022, 08:52:59 AM »
When we lived in Ohio, our school district (Parkway) and others in Mercer County had released time programs.
NALC Interim Pastor

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #394 on: March 10, 2022, 09:05:26 AM »
From Facebook We Love the Concordias, a group called  the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education has weighed in on the side of the professor with this letter (it's long):  https://www.thefire.org/fire-letter-to-concordia-university-wisconsin-march-4-2022/?fbclid=IwAR2WXfyyy4Los3ymRqoPXNMAWk_ca-jCiGLgqozwYu5DwhWTLL_bJEtO3Eo

a) I don't know what the University's position is on all of this, but the foundation for individual rights certainly has a ton of info on the process from the professor's point of view. 

b) The concept of individual rights in education cuts both ways.  There are cases this foundation has taken where organized activity against a professor by a conservative private college for the professor's advocating the removal of confederate statues, for instance, led the college to bounce a professor who was the Educator of the Year in Texas:  https://www.thefire.org/lawsuit-a-history-professor-advocated-for-removing-confederate-statues-then-his-college-fired-him/.  What that means is that the foundation seems to be bi-partisan/non-partisan. 

Dave Benke

Jim Butler

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #395 on: March 10, 2022, 09:23:14 AM »
Pastor Butler:
And yes, your observation is no doubt "casual." So tell me, just how do you observe "huge numbers of parents" while you are in a retirement facility? Not to mention that you've been locked in for two years.

Me:
Don’t be intentionally stupid. I’m referring to my observations over many years.

Yeah, I'm sure you did lots of observing while writing LCUSA press releases and sitting in newsrooms. Maybe it's just PR and newspeople that are hung up.


Pastor Butler:
It's not that "they freak out if the schools want to" teach about sex. It's what they are teaching. Some of it is extremely graphic.
Me:
And so….? You want to talk about butterflies or bees?

How to say, "I haven't reviewed much sex education curricula" without saying "I haven't reviewed much sex education curricula."

Pastor Butler:
BTW, didn't anyone ever tell you that you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition?
Me:
Get a life. Are my words worth your time?

That's the best you can do? You need to learn repartee.

Oh, you'll be very happy to know that I took your advice and picked up a life this morning. Thanks for idea!
The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time. -- VP Kamala Harris

Jim Butler

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #396 on: March 10, 2022, 09:29:37 AM »
From Facebook We Love the Concordias, a group called  the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education has weighed in on the side of the professor with this letter (it's long):  https://www.thefire.org/fire-letter-to-concordia-university-wisconsin-march-4-2022/?fbclid=IwAR2WXfyyy4Los3ymRqoPXNMAWk_ca-jCiGLgqozwYu5DwhWTLL_bJEtO3Eo

a) I don't know what the University's position is on all of this, but the foundation for individual rights certainly has a ton of info on the process from the professor's point of view. 

b) The concept of individual rights in education cuts both ways.  There are cases this foundation has taken where organized activity against a professor by a conservative private college for the professor's advocating the removal of confederate statues, for instance, led the college to bounce a professor who was the Educator of the Year in Texas:  https://www.thefire.org/lawsuit-a-history-professor-advocated-for-removing-confederate-statues-then-his-college-fired-him/.  What that means is that the foundation seems to be bi-partisan/non-partisan. 

Dave Benke

The FIRE is non-partisan. They've often been accused of being right-wing, mostly because the vast majority of their cases have been conservative groups having troubles on college and university administrations. They are fiercely on the side of free speech and academic freedom for students and professors of all stripes.
The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time. -- VP Kamala Harris

peter_speckhard

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #397 on: March 10, 2022, 09:44:14 AM »
From Facebook We Love the Concordias, a group called  the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education has weighed in on the side of the professor with this letter (it's long):  https://www.thefire.org/fire-letter-to-concordia-university-wisconsin-march-4-2022/?fbclid=IwAR2WXfyyy4Los3ymRqoPXNMAWk_ca-jCiGLgqozwYu5DwhWTLL_bJEtO3Eo

a) I don't know what the University's position is on all of this, but the foundation for individual rights certainly has a ton of info on the process from the professor's point of view. 

b) The concept of individual rights in education cuts both ways.  There are cases this foundation has taken where organized activity against a professor by a conservative private college for the professor's advocating the removal of confederate statues, for instance, led the college to bounce a professor who was the Educator of the Year in Texas:  https://www.thefire.org/lawsuit-a-history-professor-advocated-for-removing-confederate-statues-then-his-college-fired-him/.  What that means is that the foundation seems to be bi-partisan/non-partisan. 

Dave Benke
The letter does seem to make a persuasive case that at least the suspension was handled improperly. But a similar letter from the university's legal team would probably also make a persuasive case. Whenever the news makes it appear that someone is acting totally unreasonably I always assume there is more to the story unless that person has a history of acting totally unreasonably. It's an Occam's Razor approach-- you're only ever weighing likelihoods when you read the news. i've never met the interim president at CUWAA, but he can't have gotten the position without being more aware of proper procedures than the letter makes it out to be. Or, to put it another way, I would be less surprised if there was some mitigating factor omitted from the letter that made the university's actions seem more reasonable than I would be if it turns out the letter is a fair and accurate summary of what happened. But you always have to be willing to be surprised these days. 

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #398 on: March 10, 2022, 10:15:59 AM »
From Facebook We Love the Concordias, a group called  the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education has weighed in on the side of the professor with this letter (it's long):  https://www.thefire.org/fire-letter-to-concordia-university-wisconsin-march-4-2022/?fbclid=IwAR2WXfyyy4Los3ymRqoPXNMAWk_ca-jCiGLgqozwYu5DwhWTLL_bJEtO3Eo

a) I don't know what the University's position is on all of this, but the foundation for individual rights certainly has a ton of info on the process from the professor's point of view. 

b) The concept of individual rights in education cuts both ways.  There are cases this foundation has taken where organized activity against a professor by a conservative private college for the professor's advocating the removal of confederate statues, for instance, led the college to bounce a professor who was the Educator of the Year in Texas:  https://www.thefire.org/lawsuit-a-history-professor-advocated-for-removing-confederate-statues-then-his-college-fired-him/.  What that means is that the foundation seems to be bi-partisan/non-partisan. 

Dave Benke
The letter does seem to make a persuasive case that at least the suspension was handled improperly. But a similar letter from the university's legal team would probably also make a persuasive case. Whenever the news makes it appear that someone is acting totally unreasonably I always assume there is more to the story unless that person has a history of acting totally unreasonably. It's an Occam's Razor approach-- you're only ever weighing likelihoods when you read the news. i've never met the interim president at CUWAA, but he can't have gotten the position without being more aware of proper procedures than the letter makes it out to be. Or, to put it another way, I would be less surprised if there was some mitigating factor omitted from the letter that made the university's actions seem more reasonable than I would be if it turns out the letter is a fair and accurate summary of what happened. But you always have to be willing to be surprised these days.

Bill Cario served as Principal of Redeemer Lutheran in Glendale, Queens back in the day.  That's about a mile and a half from our hacienda at St. Peter's Brooklyn.  We often sent our "graduates" at age 5 to Redeemer.  He's a good man, experienced from the ground up in Lutheran education, and is in that unenviable Interim capacity.  My estimation of this situation is that it has more to do with the offense to the Board and Faculty in the "wokeness dysphoria" aspects of Schulz's critique than anything else. 

Suspension from classroom teaching with full benefits is not automatically a huge step toward dismissal, but an opportunity for constructive next steps and listening without penalty.  I'm not sure any more how the Synodical resolution process plays into this, if at all.  The statement that John Wille and Matt Harrison would be involved in resolution is in effect something like a dispute resolution offering, although it's not stated as such.  The language and bylaws quoted were supervisory, which of course always includes resolving disputes in a God-pleasing way.

Dave Benke
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 11:22:47 AM by Dave Benke »

PrTim15

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #399 on: March 10, 2022, 10:54:11 AM »
Ditto

Michael Slusser

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #400 on: March 10, 2022, 11:12:49 AM »
From Facebook We Love the Concordias, a group called  the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education has weighed in on the side of the professor with this letter (it's long):  https://www.thefire.org/fire-letter-to-concordia-university-wisconsin-march-4-2022/?fbclid=IwAR2WXfyyy4Los3ymRqoPXNMAWk_ca-jCiGLgqozwYu5DwhWTLL_bJEtO3Eo

a) I don't know what the University's position is on all of this, but the foundation for individual rights certainly has a ton of info on the process from the professor's point of view. 

b) The concept of individual rights in education cuts both ways.  There are cases this foundation has taken where organized activity against a professor by a conservative private college for the professor's advocating the removal of confederate statues, for instance, led the college to bounce a professor who was the Educator of the Year in Texas:  https://www.thefire.org/lawsuit-a-history-professor-advocated-for-removing-confederate-statues-then-his-college-fired-him/.  What that means is that the foundation seems to be bi-partisan/non-partisan. 

Dave Benke
Thanks for this. FIRE's letter asks the CUW administration for what seem to me reasonable measures in response to the professor's complaint.

The other outfit he might have turned to with his complaint is the American Association of University Professors (AAUP), which also fights for teachers' rights and is occasionally found to be on the other side from FIRE
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/09/aaup-university-oklahoma-challenges-fire-statements-free-speech

With both organizations, the matters they involve themselves in depend on who asks them to step in and help; they do not police academe actively. The requests they get for help may lead to their being perceived as biased in this or that fashion, but that is beyond the organizations' control.

Peace,
Michael

*The AAUP does not have a chapter at CUW.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 12:08:26 PM by Michael Slusser »
Fr. Michael Slusser
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The Yak

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #401 on: March 10, 2022, 02:34:15 PM »
A statement from CUWAA that certainly reflects my experience at the university:


Concordia University is a Lutheran higher education community committed to helping students develop in mind, body, and spirit for service to Christ in the Church and the world.

Anyone who sets foot on the Concordia University Wisconsin campus is immediately aware of the school’s commitment to both its mission and the Lutheran faith. Our administration, faculty, staff, and students continue to form a vibrant and faith-filled campus community dedicated to excellence in the higher education space.

At the same time, and in compliance with LCMS theology, Concordia works hard to ensure that all students–whatever their race, ethnicity, religion, or creed–are welcomed and supported as they pursue their educational goals while receiving a distinctly Lutheran Christian education. This is in accordance with God’s Word: “[God] desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4).

Our university has a diverse student population, and merely recognizing that fact and taking a position in support of it, is fully in line with Scriptures, as well as Concordia’s long-standing policies, procedures, and mission. Any speculation or insinuation that there are deeper, immoral motives at play is either unfounded or uninformed.

Concordia University is now and has always been an institution committed to the confession of The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod. The mission of the school is appropriately centered on Christ and the Holy Scriptures. Here, a student’s faith and knowledge will flourish because the Concordia community is one that cares for the whole person—mind, body, and spirit—and we are committed to helping individuals reach their fullest potential.

Under the leadership of our recently retired president, Rev. Patrick T. Ferry, Ph.D., the mission, policies, and procedures followed by Concordia have led to phenomenal success in growing our community. During his tenure, Concordia saw:

59% growth in total enrollment on the CUW campus
75% growth in total undergraduate enrollment on the CUAA campus
5 doctorate, and well over 100 online, on-the-ground, or hybrid undergraduate and graduate programs added
400% growth in the endowment

23 major renovation and building projects—including the addition of a School of Pharmacy and The Robert W. Plaster Free Enterprise Center, upgrades to athletic fields, the construction of three new on-campus residence halls, and the Bluff Renovation Project—all undertaken in the hope of glorifying God through a rich stewardship of his gifts and a commitment to providing a first-class educational environment for students
Such success while following the teachings of Christ and the LCMS’ bylaws and tradition comes at a crucial time, when the very concept of faith and the teachings of Christ are increasingly mocked by the secular world. Our students need us now more than ever. Moreover, society in general needs our graduates and their faithful fulfillment of their vocations beyond our campus walls.

Meanwhile, Concordia University remains committed to academic freedom as it continues to support and pursue a learning environment where all opportunities to discuss relevant topics of the day are encouraged. Events such as our long-running Tuesday Noon Bible Study, the Liberty, Faith and Economics Summit, the Healthcare Economics Summit, the Free Enterprise Speakers Series, and, of course, lessons taught in the classroom are overtly designed to offer civil discourse as part of the academic experience.

Any attempts to divide our campus community will not succeed. At this time, we will not comment directly about specific personnel issues due to our commitment to the dispute resolution process as outlined by the LCMS. This procedure, written in accordance with God’s Word, not only supports confidentiality, it mandates it: “…publicity shall not be given to the issues in the matter by any of the parties involved…” However, those within and outside of our campus community should know that Concordia University continues to pursue the dispute resolution process vigorously and stands unwavering in its commitment to its mission, its students, and the Truth, as we have since our founding in 1881.

As members of the body of Christ, we must continue to offer compassion and support for one another. Let the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:7), and let the words of our mouths and the meditations of our hearts be acceptable in His sight (Psalm 19:14). To Him be the glory and honor for holding the hearts and wisdom of all mankind in His hands. In Him, we have every reason to hope.


https://blog.cuw.edu/lutheran-identity/
Rev. Dr. Scott Yak imow
Professor of Theology
Concordia University - Ann Arbor

Jeremy_Loesch

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #402 on: March 10, 2022, 02:39:16 PM »
That is a good note. Thanks for sharing that for us. Any idea who put that together?

Jeremy

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #403 on: March 10, 2022, 03:17:22 PM »
This release is right on time, Scott.  Right on time.

This paragraph grabbed my attention:  Any attempts to divide our campus community will not succeed. At this time, we will not comment directly about specific personnel issues due to our commitment to the dispute resolution process as outlined by the LCMS. This procedure, written in accordance with God’s Word, not only supports confidentiality, it mandates it: “…publicity shall not be given to the issues in the matter by any of the parties involved…”

I appreciate the definite nature of the threat - "attempts to divide our campus community."  It's our largest ship in the educational ocean, and whichever group or individual wrote this has their hand on the tiller.

Dave Benke

The Yak

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #404 on: March 10, 2022, 03:18:27 PM »
That is a good note. Thanks for sharing that for us. Any idea who put that together?

Jeremy

Nope. But as I've said multiple times, while I'm concerned with the way the Schulz suspension has been handled and, as faculty, would like to know more about the process, the substance of Schulz's accusations regarding what is actually going on at CUWAA is wildly wrong based on my 5 years working here. It's just untethered from daily reality.
Rev. Dr. Scott Yak imow
Professor of Theology
Concordia University - Ann Arbor