Author Topic: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin  (Read 34627 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #525 on: May 13, 2022, 12:54:50 PM »
I find the diversity discussion somewhat humorous because of my location. We are lining up eight more Baptisms at Emmanuel right now. Half are "white," half are not. Diversity is a given here. We hardly think about it.
Ditto. Just did that on Easter. I'm happy we have a diverse school, and I'm happy we don't have any diversity officers.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 01:17:40 PM by peter_speckhard »

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #526 on: May 13, 2022, 01:16:54 PM »
I find the diversity discussion somewhat humorous because of my location. We are lining up eight more Baptisms at Emmanuel right now. Half are "white," half are not. Diversity is a given here. We hardly think about it.
Ditto. Just did that on Easter. I'm happy we have a diverse school, and I'm happy we don't have an diversity officers.

Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
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Michael Slusser

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #527 on: May 13, 2022, 02:20:08 PM »
I find the diversity discussion somewhat humorous because of my location. We are lining up eight more Baptisms at Emmanuel right now. Half are "white," half are not. Diversity is a given here. We hardly think about it.
Ditto. Just did that on Easter. I'm happy we have a diverse school, and I'm happy we don't have an diversity officers.
Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
Yes, it happens naturally if it isn't impeded. I wish joy to both your congregations.

Back to the comparison between CUW and Grove City College: their diversity efforts seem to be equivalent.
Grove City says, "Six percent of our undergraduates are multi-ethnic students." Is that a codeword for non-white? I don't know. But neither do I know what the comparable figure is for CUW.

There are difference between the two in these areas however: Grove City College is not under any denominational control, its Trustees are not appointed by an outside body, its Presidents have generally not been ordained. That may not be an effective model for CUW.

Peace,
Michael
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #528 on: May 13, 2022, 02:59:37 PM »
I find the diversity discussion somewhat humorous because of my location. We are lining up eight more Baptisms at Emmanuel right now. Half are "white," half are not. Diversity is a given here. We hardly think about it.
Ditto. Just did that on Easter. I'm happy we have a diverse school, and I'm happy we don't have an diversity officers.
Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
Yes, it happens naturally if it isn't impeded. I wish joy to both your congregations.

Back to the comparison between CUW and Grove City College: their diversity efforts seem to be equivalent.
Grove City says, "Six percent of our undergraduates are multi-ethnic students." Is that a codeword for non-white? I don't know. But neither do I know what the comparable figure is for CUW.

There are difference between the two in these areas however: Grove City College is not under any denominational control, its Trustees are not appointed by an outside body, its Presidents have generally not been ordained. That may not be an effective model for CUW.

Peace,
Michael
Simply stating what percentage of the students are non-white is informational and probably based on federal forms (though still potentially problematic given how many people are "multi-ethnic" or "bi-racial" as individuals). It takes no DEI office to gather and report statistics. The DEI office attempts to explain any statistically significant deviations from random distribution in terms of systemic bias and racism, then compensate for that with corrective measures. The mere reporting of statistics judges nobody by the color of their skin. The DEI corrective measures judge everybody by the color of their skin.

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #529 on: May 13, 2022, 03:06:13 PM »
I find the diversity discussion somewhat humorous because of my location. We are lining up eight more Baptisms at Emmanuel right now. Half are "white," half are not. Diversity is a given here. We hardly think about it.
Ditto. Just did that on Easter. I'm happy we have a diverse school, and I'm happy we don't have any diversity officers.

As Pastors you are diversity officers.  A very sad day in St. Louis today, as decades-long urban and inner-city mission and ministry Pastor John Schmidtke died yesterday afternoon.  He was an amazing shepherd, mentor and multi-cultural leader; associate pastor Gerard Bolling is a son of St. Peter's Brooklyn.  John embodied the full-Gospel approach to worship, mission and social justice, and was responsible for a lot of affordable housing around the church as well as the rest of his pastoral duties. 

In the case of a multi-racial and multi-cultural congregation, the spiritual leadership is critical to the community outreach.  It isn't meant of course to be carried out only or even mainly by the pastor as leader.  The lay leadership is fostered, trained and sent out from all the diverse levels of background in church and school.   That is a conscious and intentional effort.  Our diversity officers at St. Peter's are the church council, the elders and deacons, and the school administrators.  They mirror the diversity of both the community and the congregation.

Dave Benke
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Michael Slusser

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #530 on: May 13, 2022, 03:10:25 PM »
Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
Yes, it happens naturally if it isn't impeded. I wish joy to both your congregations.

Back to the comparison between CUW and Grove City College: their diversity efforts seem to be equivalent.
Grove City says, "Six percent of our undergraduates are multi-ethnic students." Is that a codeword for non-white? I don't know. But neither do I know what the comparable figure is for CUW.

There are difference between the two in these areas however: Grove City College is not under any denominational control, its Trustees are not appointed by an outside body, its Presidents have generally not been ordained. That may not be an effective model for CUW.

Simply stating what percentage of the students are non-white is informational and probably based on federal forms (though still potentially problematic given how many people are "multi-ethnic" or "bi-racial" as individuals). It takes no DEI office to gather and report statistics. The DEI office attempts to explain any statistically significant deviations from random distribution in terms of systemic bias and racism, then compensate for that with corrective measures. The mere reporting of statistics judges nobody by the color of their skin. The DEI corrective measures judge everybody by the color of their skin.
Grove City College fills out Federal forms? I thought that they had eliminated that requirement by getting rid of all federal funds.  ??? I don't know why you keep referring to DEI (or is it DIE?) offices, which haven't come up in either case--CUW or GGC.

But do you, as the letter suggests, think that Grove City College is an effective model to help CUWAA get through its present difficulties?

Peace,
Michael
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #531 on: May 13, 2022, 03:31:34 PM »
Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
Yes, it happens naturally if it isn't impeded. I wish joy to both your congregations.

Back to the comparison between CUW and Grove City College: their diversity efforts seem to be equivalent.
Grove City says, "Six percent of our undergraduates are multi-ethnic students." Is that a codeword for non-white? I don't know. But neither do I know what the comparable figure is for CUW.

There are difference between the two in these areas however: Grove City College is not under any denominational control, its Trustees are not appointed by an outside body, its Presidents have generally not been ordained. That may not be an effective model for CUW.

Simply stating what percentage of the students are non-white is informational and probably based on federal forms (though still potentially problematic given how many people are "multi-ethnic" or "bi-racial" as individuals). It takes no DEI office to gather and report statistics. The DEI office attempts to explain any statistically significant deviations from random distribution in terms of systemic bias and racism, then compensate for that with corrective measures. The mere reporting of statistics judges nobody by the color of their skin. The DEI corrective measures judge everybody by the color of their skin.
Grove City College fills out Federal forms? I thought that they had eliminated that requirement by getting rid of all federal funds.  ??? I don't know why you keep referring to DEI (or is it DIE?) offices, which haven't come up in either case--CUW or GGC.

But do you, as the letter suggests, think that Grove City College is an effective model to help CUWAA get through its present difficulties?

Peace,
Michael
I'm simply explaining why there is a big difference between between diversity and Diversity, between black lives mattering and Black Lives Matter, etc. I don't know what forms the students fill out to get loans or register for housing or whatever, but many forms do include a race check-off, which is how I assume the school knows the 6% figure, unless you think they go by actually measuring the skin pigmentation of the students.

DEI (or DIE) is a freighted term, and the freight it carries is socially and theologically poisonous and antithetical to the kind of diversity MLK dreamed about. I believe it was disagreement on that point the has driven some of the disagreement about CUWAA. I'm not an insider to CUWAA but throughout the controversy have simply tried to point out that it was different takes on the same facts/evidence that led some to see "wokeness" where others did not, not a matter of their being lots or evidence or no evidence at all.

John_Hannah

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #532 on: May 13, 2022, 04:26:05 PM »
If "wokeness" is covert and secret does it do any harm? I think not. Being public and aggressive is intrinsic to "wokeness." If you can't find it, it's not there.

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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #533 on: May 13, 2022, 04:32:45 PM »
If "wokeness" is covert and secret does it do any harm? I think not. Being public and aggressive is intrinsic to "wokeness." If you can't find it, it's not there.

Peace, JOHN

Well, according to President Harrison’s letter, it was not too covert or secret and he did find it.

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #534 on: May 13, 2022, 04:32:58 PM »
Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
Yes, it happens naturally if it isn't impeded. I wish joy to both your congregations.

Back to the comparison between CUW and Grove City College: their diversity efforts seem to be equivalent.
Grove City says, "Six percent of our undergraduates are multi-ethnic students." Is that a codeword for non-white? I don't know. But neither do I know what the comparable figure is for CUW.

There are difference between the two in these areas however: Grove City College is not under any denominational control, its Trustees are not appointed by an outside body, its Presidents have generally not been ordained. That may not be an effective model for CUW.

Simply stating what percentage of the students are non-white is informational and probably based on federal forms (though still potentially problematic given how many people are "multi-ethnic" or "bi-racial" as individuals). It takes no DEI office to gather and report statistics. The DEI office attempts to explain any statistically significant deviations from random distribution in terms of systemic bias and racism, then compensate for that with corrective measures. The mere reporting of statistics judges nobody by the color of their skin. The DEI corrective measures judge everybody by the color of their skin.
Grove City College fills out Federal forms? I thought that they had eliminated that requirement by getting rid of all federal funds.  ??? I don't know why you keep referring to DEI (or is it DIE?) offices, which haven't come up in either case--CUW or GGC.

But do you, as the letter suggests, think that Grove City College is an effective model to help CUWAA get through its present difficulties?

Peace,
Michael

The two examples often used are Hillsdale, which as you have outlined is about 20% the size of CUWAA at best, and now Grove City, which is a bit larger but still below 2500.  What's clear to me is that there will be a college in the Missouri Synod that undertakes that kind of mission.  It's the college scheduled to open in Wyoming in 2025.  I wouldn't be surprised were they to forego federal funding there. 

In terms of enrollment, Grove City and CUWAA are probably not that far apart in non-white enrollment percentages.  Those percentages are - not surprisingly - far higher than the "multi-ethnic" percentage of members in the congregations of the Missouri Synod.

As to DEI, the vision of Luke 13:29 is in our theology and practice not only a set of banquet tables for the eschaton, but is mirrored and is to be mirrored as grace allows in the "foretaste of the feast to come."  People will come from east and west and north and south to the banquet in the Kingdom of Heaven, proof of the cosmic reach of the Gospel in all its inclusive diversity.  It's a wonderful privilege to be here in pastoral and congregational mission in these days and times!

Dave Benke
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #535 on: May 13, 2022, 04:35:44 PM »
Yes. No enforced diversity, please. If everyone just relaxes, diversity will take care of itself. The young people will have babies together and we will baptize them and teach them the catechism.
Yes, it happens naturally if it isn't impeded. I wish joy to both your congregations.

Back to the comparison between CUW and Grove City College: their diversity efforts seem to be equivalent.
Grove City says, "Six percent of our undergraduates are multi-ethnic students." Is that a codeword for non-white? I don't know. But neither do I know what the comparable figure is for CUW.

There are difference between the two in these areas however: Grove City College is not under any denominational control, its Trustees are not appointed by an outside body, its Presidents have generally not been ordained. That may not be an effective model for CUW.

Simply stating what percentage of the students are non-white is informational and probably based on federal forms (though still potentially problematic given how many people are "multi-ethnic" or "bi-racial" as individuals). It takes no DEI office to gather and report statistics. The DEI office attempts to explain any statistically significant deviations from random distribution in terms of systemic bias and racism, then compensate for that with corrective measures. The mere reporting of statistics judges nobody by the color of their skin. The DEI corrective measures judge everybody by the color of their skin.
Grove City College fills out Federal forms? I thought that they had eliminated that requirement by getting rid of all federal funds.  ??? I don't know why you keep referring to DEI (or is it DIE?) offices, which haven't come up in either case--CUW or GGC.

But do you, as the letter suggests, think that Grove City College is an effective model to help CUWAA get through its present difficulties?

Peace,
Michael

The two examples often used are Hillsdale, which as you have outlined is about 20% the size of CUWAA at best, and now Grove City, which is a bit larger but still below 2500.  What's clear to me is that there will be a college in the Missouri Synod that undertakes that kind of mission.  It's the college scheduled to open in Wyoming in 2025.  I wouldn't be surprised were they to forego federal funding there. 

In terms of enrollment, Grove City and CUWAA are probably not that far apart in non-white enrollment percentages.  Those percentages are - not surprisingly - far higher than the "multi-ethnic" percentage of members in the congregations of the Missouri Synod.

As to DEI, the vision of Luke 13:29 is in our theology and practice not only a set of banquet tables for the eschaton, but is mirrored and is to be mirrored as grace allows in the "foretaste of the feast to come."  People will come from east and west and north and south to the banquet in the Kingdom of Heaven, proof of the cosmic reach of the Gospel in all its inclusive diversity.  It's a wonderful privilege to be here in pastoral and congregational mission in these days and times!

Dave Benke

You are correct: this new school in Wyoming promises not to take any federal funding.  It is one of its four foundations, according to the presentation given at our recent district convention.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #536 on: May 13, 2022, 04:40:53 PM »
If "wokeness" is covert and secret does it do any harm? I think not. Being public and aggressive is intrinsic to "wokeness." If you can't find it, it's not there.

Peace, JOHN
What if you can find it but some people don't see it? After all, that's what wokeness says is true of racism. It's always "unconscious" or "micro-" or "systemic" or otherwise requiring woke eyes or dog-whistle-attuned ears to discern it.

Say, for example, that there is a student union set aside strictly for black students. That is neither covert nor secret, it is an advertised fact. Is that wokeness that isn't there, or is that wokeness that is public and aggressive? My guess is that people would disagree on that question. Which is an example of why people disagree on this CUWAA kerfuffle.

Michael Slusser

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #537 on: May 13, 2022, 04:42:53 PM »
According to https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/concordia-university-wisconsin/student-life/diversity/, 79.2% of CUW undergraduate students are white, 6.5% are Black or African American, and other groups (including Unknown) compose the rest.

Grove City College https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/grove-city-college/student-life/diversity/: 92% of undergraduate students are white.

Peace,
Michael
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Jim Butler

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #538 on: May 13, 2022, 05:07:49 PM »
More and more people are coming to the conclusion that "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" is a Trojan Horse carrying a lot more than advertised. What people think about that assertion probably determines the degree to which they think CUWAA has gone "woke."

But I agree that I can't imagine anyone encouraged anyone to share that letter publicly online. In it, the synodical president calls out two people by name and recommends removing them from the Board of Regents. Normally, that kind of thing would be shared verbally at a personal meeting and the text would not come out unless anyone publicly denied or misrepresented the substance of it. That would allow face-saving measures all around and a "re-start". It seems to me that making it public cements people into their positions. Much like the Russia-Ukraine thing, nobody was given a "golden bridge" on which to retreat.
Is this a leaked letter? Perhaps similar motivations on a more parochial level as leaking a Supreme Court draft opinion.

Yes, it is a leaked letter.  And yes, it's an embarrassment in terms of calling out three people by name, two regents who are asked to resign after extensive references to them both, and one former employee.  That's provocative and unproductive at the maximum level.  The weasel words in the leak are "was encouraged to share it."  So what? Reading the letter, why participate in that provocation of CUWAA?  The letter was "leaked" to this site by Harry Edmon, the father of a member of the St. Louis Seminary Board of Regents, who has responded to his own struggle with posting it here.  My wish, Harry, is that you had not done so.

Dave Benke
I take the words of a pastor and former DP seriously, so I will take your words to heart. If a copy of the letter had been sent to me directly I would not have posted it. The only reason I did is this had already become public. Maybe that was not a good enough reason.

I'm going to disagree with Dave on this.

I wish the letter had not been leaked. When the editor of BJS was "encouraged to share it" he should have either refused or he should have said, "Fine, so long as I can say who gave it to me." My guess is that it was leaked to put pressure on Richard Laabs and Mark Polzin to resign.

However, nothing was "leaked" to this Board--and you were wrong to use that term, Dave (even in scare quotes). Once the letter was posted--an announcements went out on the BJS FB page and Twitter accounts, there was no reason to withhold the info from here. If Dr. Edmon had not posted the link someone else--like me--would have. At this point, the horse has already left the barn.

Whoever leaked the letter sinned. If it was a Regent, then s/he should be removed as a regent. BJS sinned in posting what was clearly a confidential letter to the CUWAA BOR. But once it was out there, it doesn't do any good to act like it doesn't exist.

On an ironic note, Prez H thinks Mark Polzin should resign. And who is receiving CUW's Christo et Ecclesiae award at their commencement this weekend? Mark Polzin.
"Pastor Butler... [is] deaf to the cries of people like me, dismissing our concerns as Satanic scenarios, denouncing our faith and our very existence."--Charles Austin

Dave Benke

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Re: Prayer service for Concordia University-Wisconsin
« Reply #539 on: May 13, 2022, 05:36:17 PM »
On an ironic note, Prez H thinks Mark Polzin should resign. And who is receiving CUW's Christo et Ecclesiae award at their commencement this weekend? Mark Polzin.

Oh, me, oh my. 

Here's your award.  And here's your hat.  What's your hurry?  Don't let that door hit you on the way out.

Jim, you know some of these bylaws and their history through time.  The "Prior Approval Panel" is in the middle of this situation.  Having been through a few leadership succession phases at Bronxville, we had something like it but not quite the way it is now, and then it became the three-person version it is these days.  It was a major, major hazard at one time in the Bronxville history.  Anyway, do you know the aegis?

Dave Benke
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