Author Topic: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News  (Read 4582 times)


David Garner

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2021, 03:08:40 PM »
They always eat their own.
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Birkholz

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David Garner

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2021, 04:14:52 PM »
The posted article is long on rhetoric, but short on detail. 

More info here:
https://www.christianpost.com/amp/lutheran-lgbt-group-suspends-trans-elca-bishop-for-alleged-racism.html

ELM's statement:
https://www.elm.org/2021/12/20/elm-board-statement-regarding-bishop-rohrer/

And some background to the situation:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/ecopreacher/2021/12/elca-fires-whistleblower-rev-nelson-rabell-gonzalez/

I find it hard to take the use of non-binary pronouns seriously.  Especially in the third article, but also in the second.

Bp. Rohrer is a trans woman right?  My English teacher is probably drinking heavily these days.
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Charles Austin

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2021, 04:38:34 PM »
She remains in office as an ELCA bishop.
I do not believe that the organization that suspended her is an official ELCA entity.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Michael Slusser

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2021, 05:49:03 PM »
She remains in office as an ELCA bishop.
I do not believe that the organization that suspended her is an official ELCA entity.
They remains in office as an ELCA bishop. The organization, ELM, suspended them from the LGBT+ group than fought for their right to be ordained in the ELCA.

The third article posted by Birkholz, by Prof. Leah Schade, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/ecopreacher/2021/12/elca-fires-whistleblower-rev-nelson-rabell-gonzalez/ is actually growing into a series of articles. She is clearly an advocate, and does it clearly.

Peace,
Michael
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David Garner

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2021, 06:49:52 PM »
They remains in office as an ELCA bishop.

Fr. Michael highlights why this strikes me so wrong.  We take a plural pronoun, but because of this silly fiction that she is not a she (even though she is actually a he, but I can at least grant that bit of fiction for the sake of politeness), we use the plural pronoun, and the only way to avoid further absurdity is to pair it with a singular verb.  So "they.....remains."

It's utterly stupid, but here we are, in 2021, pretending English is not a language with rules.

I'm not aiming this at you, Fr. Michael.  I hope that is clear.  I only chose your post to highlight it because it did so in such spot-on fashion.
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Terry W Culler

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2021, 07:27:52 PM »
Is everyone in the ELCA expected to write about people in that laughingly bizarre way?
"No particular Church has ... a right to existence, except as it believes itself the most perfect from of Christianity, the form which of right, should and will be universal."
Charles Porterfield Krauth

Charles Austin

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2021, 08:49:09 PM »
No, Pastor Cullor, no.
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Michael Slusser

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2021, 09:02:19 PM »
They remains in office as an ELCA bishop.

Fr. Michael highlights why this strikes me so wrong.  We take a plural pronoun, but because of this silly fiction that she is not a she (even though she is actually a he, but I can at least grant that bit of fiction for the sake of politeness), we use the plural pronoun, and the only way to avoid further absurdity is to pair it with a singular verb.  So "they.....remains."

It's utterly stupid, but here we are, in 2021, pretending English is not a language with rules.

I'm not aiming this at you, Fr. Michael.  I hope that is clear.  I only chose your post to highlight it because it did so in such spot-on fashion.
No offense, David Garner. I'm just seeing how this new suggestion plays out in practice.

Peace and blessed Christmas,
Michael
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RDPreus

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2021, 12:03:42 AM »
Does anyone remember "Pat" on Saturday Night Live?  Was s/he a man or a woman or something else?

Charles Austin

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2021, 05:19:33 AM »
And why would it matter, Pastor Preus? Unless one is single and needs to consider whether someone is “datable” in the romantic/sexual meaning of that word, is it critically important to know their gender or sexual orientation?
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2021, 08:45:15 AM »
And why would it matter, Pastor Preus? Unless one is single and needs to consider whether someone is “datable” in the romantic/sexual meaning of that word, is it critically important to know their gender or sexual orientation?

Obviously it IS "critically important" to know a person's gender or sexual orientation.  Else one risks being destroyed personally, professionally, socially, and financially if using the wrong pronouns or somehow offending such a person.

Michael Slusser

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2021, 09:24:20 AM »
And why would it matter, Pastor Preus? Unless one is single and needs to consider whether someone is “datable” in the romantic/sexual meaning of that word, is it critically important to know their gender or sexual orientation?
And why, in the boilerplate signature at the foot of emails from the University of Edinburgh, is there a line "My personal pronouns are . . "?

It isn't just the ELCA in California.

Peace to persons of good will, and others,
Michael
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Charles Austin

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Re: ELCA Transgender Bishop in the News
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2021, 09:59:25 AM »
Pastot Bohler:
Obviously it IS "critically important" to know a person's gender or sexual orientation.  Else one risks being destroyed personally, professionally, socially, and financially if using the wrong pronouns or somehow offending such a person.
Me:
I hope you’re speaking sarcastically.
You can’t really be afraid that you’re going to be damaged by what gay or lesbian or transgender people think of you.
And if you give anybody, repeat anybody, power over the pronouns that you use in “normal“ English, then that “anybody” has won.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Parishes in Iowa, Nw York and New Jersey. LCA and LWF staff. Former journalist. Now retired, living in Minneapolis.