Author Topic: Two New York Times' Reports  (Read 348 times)

John_Hannah

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Two New York Times' Reports
« on: November 30, 2021, 09:05:08 AM »
Christian flag defended by the ACLU:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/us/boston-flag-free-speech.html

"Worship Wars" (but not by Lutherans):

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/us/evangelical-churches-baptism.html?searchResultPosition=1

Enjoy a respite from the endless political chatter.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

peter_speckhard

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2021, 09:10:54 AM »
Christian flag defended by the ACLU:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/us/boston-flag-free-speech.html

"Worship Wars" (but not by Lutherans):

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/us/evangelical-churches-baptism.html?searchResultPosition=1

Enjoy a respite from the endless political chatter.

Peace, JOHN
A first amendment battle about a church flag and free speech will provide relief from the political chatter? Now that's optimism!

Dave Benke

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2021, 10:15:46 AM »
Here's a question - are there many "believer" baptisms in Lutheran churches represented on this board?  By that I mean older children/adult baptisms.  The NYT story is a good thing, no?  Lots of older children/adult baptisms - new accessions into the Christian faith.  Roman Catholics have RCIA, and I'm sure we have similar adult instruction classes in our Lutheran congregations.  There are professions of faith by people who come from another Christian affiliation, or "new believers" who had no prior church life.  So that's one question.

But the baptismal rite itself.  The article speaks at length about baptisms outside the sanctuary or in different water vessels than previously seen as appropriate.  How about us?  I've done that, not often but occasionally, and it was lovely:
When we used to have the annual church picnic at a location with a swimming pool, we often moved the baptismal ritual for adults to the picnic location and baptized outdoors.   The pool at Long Island Lutheran was one location, the pool at the YMCA another, and a lake on Staten Island a third.  Those were memorable for the assembly of believers as well as for the baptizand/family.  With one exception, it has always been a service of the Word/song with baptism, not a Eucharist, because that was too difficult to arrange in the circumstance.
An advantage of going to a public park is that this kind of activity brings lots of other people over, and provides an outreach opportunity for follow-up.

Any movement in that direction by other congregations here?

Dave Benke

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2021, 10:39:53 AM »
Slowly integrating myself into the local surf culture at my favorite spot. 20 years or so. When they learned I was a pastor one said, “Dude, I thought you were a regular guy, man!

One of the main locals has asked me to baptize his grandchildren in the ocean. I thank the Holy Spirit and Catholic grandmas.

Peter (Never turn your back on the ocean- or Catholic grandmas) Garrison
Pete Garrison

peterm

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2021, 11:02:24 AM »
In the past couple of years I have baptized several teen agers and young adults following our unit on the Sacrament during confirmation.  We have done the baptism service/ rite within the context of our Wednesday youth programs and invited other congregational members to bear witness because that Wednesday group is the primary faith community.  it's often followed by pizza dinner!
Rev. Peter Morlock- ELCA pastor serving two congregations in WIS

Charles Austin

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2021, 11:34:29 AM »
I think after a baptism service in ocean water, I would want a repast that included clams, mussels, and - if in the Caribbean - conch.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns could’ve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2021, 11:39:53 AM »
Dave, I've been having teen and adult Baptisms since I arrived here in Ohio. Two teens ready to go, waiting for the family to choose a day.

I love Baptisms. Can't wait for Baptism of Our Lord Sunday and the renewal service.
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Dave Benke

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2021, 11:49:35 AM »
Slowly integrating myself into the local surf culture at my favorite spot. 20 years or so. When they learned I was a pastor one said, “Dude, I thought you were a regular guy, man!

One of the main locals has asked me to baptize his grandchildren in the ocean. I thank the Holy Spirit and Catholic grandmas.

Peter (Never turn your back on the ocean- or Catholic grandmas) Garrison

Hah!  Nice - my favorite oceanic death and renewal movie clip (along with Brother Where Art Thou which can be used in a Christian way although not the aim), The End Burt Reynolds:  https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=The+End%2c+Burt+Reynolds&docid=607991589178659541&mid=E1C756E261199FE46E1DE1C756E261199FE46E1D&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

Of course, the renewal is short-lived once salvation is accomplished.

Dave Benke

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Two New York Times' Reports
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2021, 12:27:12 PM »
Dave, I've been having teen and adult Baptisms since I arrived here in Ohio. Two teens ready to go, waiting for the family to choose a day.


Although I haven't followed the recommendation, the idea that the congregation sets the date(s) for baptisms rather than the family is an intriguing thought, e.g., the Vigil of Easter, Pentecost, the Baptism of Our Lord.

Quote
I love Baptisms. Can't wait for Baptism of Our Lord Sunday and the renewal service.


In recent years I have used the Affirmation of Baptism (by the assembly) on the Baptism of Our Lord to remind us all of God's grace given to us in baptism and the promises we made (or that were made for us) at that time.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]