Author Topic: Islamophobia  (Read 1239 times)

peter_speckhard

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Islamophobia
« on: November 28, 2021, 09:01:12 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/canadian-school-district-cancels-speech-by-isis-rape-survivor-due-to-islamophobia-fears

This is part of the same issue we deal with regarding other topics. The attempt to control the discourse fosters distrust. Here a prizewinning author sharing a harrowing story canít talk to the schools for fear it would foster Islamophobia. Setting aside that there is no similar compunction about stories of how Natives suffered at the hands of Christian missionaries, the real issue is that refusing to admit or discuss something because it might make people think a certain (about the climate, vaccines, Muslims, communism, etc.) simply informs people that you are more interested in an agenda than the truth. People lose trust in such authorities no matter much expertise they have.

Dave Benke

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2021, 12:08:24 PM »
From another thread, both Cornell West and Robert George spoke from very different ends of the spectrum against restrictions on free speech on college campuses and in general lauding freedom of speech as one of the treasures of our constitutional democracy:  https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Firing+Line+margaret+hoover+cornell+west&docid=608017062619735422&mid=DBF94D6AACD24E8BE399DBF94D6AACD24E8BE399&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

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Charles Austin

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2021, 06:19:42 PM »
Does it occur to anyone that a speaker who has been personally and severely victimized, tortured, and raped by Islamic extremists might not be the best speaker for a gathering of school students, for some of whom this might be their first experience with Islam? Students should learn about Islam in general not at its worst.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns couldíve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2021, 07:17:45 PM »
The article has been updated with a statement from the Toronto District School Board.

In a statement to Fox News Digital on Sunday, the Toronto District School Board said the event is not yet canceled and Murad's book is being reviewed.

"The event has not been cancelled," spokesman Ryan Bird told Fox. "Earlier this month, an opinion that did not reflect the position of the Toronto District School Board was shared with the organizer of a book club prior to staff having an opportunity to read the book Ė something that is routinely done before giving them to students. Staff are currently reading the book and anticipate being able to add it to the list of titles used in the corresponding course(s) very shortly. We have apologized to Ms. Murad for this error and believe she has a powerful story to share with our students."

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2021, 09:07:11 PM »
Does it occur to anyone that a speaker who has been personally and severely victimized, tortured, and raped by Islamic extremists might not be the best speaker for a gathering of school students, for some of whom this might be their first experience with Islam? Students should learn about Islam in general not at its worst.

No. As to your second sentence, perhaps her presentation addresses Islam in general.
Don Kirchner

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Charles Austin

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2021, 09:14:20 PM »
Pastor Kirchner:
Ö perhaps her presentation addresses Islam in general.

Me:
Ö.and perhaps the last guy released from Guantanamo is giving speeches addressing American Justice ďin general.Ē
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns couldíve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2021, 09:25:19 PM »
Pastor Kirchner:
Ö perhaps her presentation addresses Islam in general.

Me:
Ö.and perhaps the last guy released from Guantanamo is giving speeches addressing American Justice ďin general.Ē

Right on queue, an illogical analogy.
Don Kirchner

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Pastor Ken Kimball

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2021, 09:30:42 PM »
Really, Pastor Austin?  Comparing someone who suffered rape under ISIS control to someone imprisoned at Guantanamo for participation in terrorism?  Moral equivalency?  Okay, you can fill in the back story of someone unjustly imprisoned at Guantanamo though they were innocent...or maybe a freedom fighter defending whatever you think they worthily defended...whatever narrative needs to be constructed equate the U.S. with Al Qaida / Taliban.   Bit of a stretch.   But I'm all for full telling of this woman's account and that of whatever Guantanamo inmate you pick.  I think the account of each person's experience and what they did as well as what was done to them would give us a fuller and fairer picture of Islam in general--and far better comparison than your equating of the two in order to dismiss this woman's account. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2021, 09:39:10 PM »
I am not making a case for the equivalency of the two situations. Iím only saying that someone who comes out of either of those experiences is not likely to speak kindly or a balanced way of the perpetrator, whether or not that balance is merited.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns couldíve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2021, 09:45:25 PM »
I am not making a case for the equivalency of the two situations. Iím only saying that someone who comes out of either of those experiences is not likely to speak kindly or a balanced way of the perpetrator, whether or not that balance is merited.
I donít think anyone is suggesting that this personís presentation be the extent of what is taught about Islam in the schools. It is not her job to balance anything. That is the schoolís job, and she perspective is one part of it. Furthermore, the school should not much care if the students come away with a positive or negative view of Islam.

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2021, 10:07:59 PM »
I am not making a case for the equivalency of the two situations.

And then goes on to attempt a case for an equivalency.   ::)

 
Iím only saying that someone who comes out of either of those experiences is not likely to speak kindly or a balanced way of the perpetrator, whether or not that balance is merited.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but itís not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Charles Austin

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2021, 11:58:43 PM »
Missed it again, Pastor Kirchner.
Let me be more clear.
What the woman experienced under Islamic extremism was unjust, terrible and an abomination.
What prisoners at Guantanamo was let us stipulate, just, not as bad as being tortured and raped and not an abomination.
STILL, neither the woman nor the prisoners of the US are likely to speak in an objective way about who gave them those experiences nor are they likely to have a balanced view of the belief and/or governmental system under which they had those experiences.
Good grief, we have to strain hard here for some common sense!
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns couldíve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2021, 12:06:30 AM »
Missed it again, Pastor Kirchner.
Let me be more clear.
What the woman experienced under Islamic extremism was unjust, terrible and an abomination.
What prisoners at Guantanamo was let us stipulate, just, not as bad as being tortured and raped and not an abomination.
STILL, neither the woman nor the prisoners of the US are likely to speak in an objective way about who gave them those experiences nor are they likely to have a balanced view of the belief and/or governmental system under which they had those experiences.
Good grief, we have to strain hard here for some common sense!
But again, no guest speaker is brought in to speak in an objective way. A textbook can attempt that. The problem here is that the schools have decided what the children should think about Islam and nixed a speaker who wouldnít further that goal.

On the issue of schools in the US, people who objected to Toni Morrison novels for featuring pornographic scenes lost that particular battle. She is an award winning novelist, so Hugh school kids can be exposed to her work even if some of it requires context or guidance. This speaker is also a international, award winning writer and speaker. So why the fear of kids hearing her story?

Charles Austin

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2021, 12:48:35 AM »
Maybe I wasn't clear on the whole of the matter. I personally, me, myself, believe that Nadia Murad should speak anywhere she wants to speak and I have no doubt she has many invitations. Good.
But I also understand why a school board or local area might decide she is not an appropriate speaker for that crowd.
But the update says she may speak to the Toronto students, so perhaps Fox news was too eager to find another example of "cancel culture."
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Oh, my. How close we were to a situation where many people with guns couldíve killed many members of Congress. The possible result? Martial law and/or Civil War. Thank God some people are still coming forward to tell the truth.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Islamophobia
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2021, 12:52:00 AM »
Missed it again, Pastor Kirchner.
Let me be more clear.
What the woman experienced under Islamic extremism was unjust, terrible and an abomination.
What prisoners at Guantanamo was let us stipulate, just, not as bad as being tortured and raped and not an abomination.
STILL, neither the woman nor the prisoners of the US are likely to speak in an objective way about who gave them those experiences nor are they likely to have a balanced view of the belief and/or governmental system under which they had those experiences.
Good grief, we have to strain hard here for some common sense!
But again, no guest speaker is brought in to speak in an objective way. A textbook can attempt that. The problem here is that the schools have decided what the children should think about Islam and nixed a speaker who wouldnít further that goal.

On the issue of schools in the US, people who objected to Toni Morrison novels for featuring pornographic scenes lost that particular battle. She is an award winning novelist, so Hugh school kids can be exposed to her work even if some of it requires context or guidance. This speaker is also a international, award winning writer and speaker. So why the fear of kids hearing her story?


I think I should start a teaching tour among Lutheran congregation about my and my friendsí experiences with Missouri Synod Lutherans. Iím sure I could conduct myself as an expert and present them in the worst possible light and let others try and correct any biased, but true statements I might make about that denomination.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]