Started by J. Thomas Shelley, November 23, 2021, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Dana Lockhart on November 26, 2021, 04:46:42 PMAnd I am not the smartest guy in the room... obviously you are. And the most ethical. Compassionate. And least condescending. If only I could be so virtuous.
Quote from: peter_speckhard on November 26, 2021, 11:33:32 PMI'm not sure that political lens is accurate. Mandates would go against the grain of Trump's base and would be amenable to the progressive mindset regardless of the election results. I don't doubt mandates work. If that is the only consideration, we should have a lot more mandates than we have. But whether it increases the number of vaccinated isn't the only consideration. You really have to objectify people to think it a success story that so many of them are vaccinated against their own will.
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on November 26, 2021, 07:18:13 PMI could also share anecdotes. A man I know also has a chronic disease. His immune system is compromised. He was one of the first to get the vaccine. He volunteered to be in a study group to see how the vaccines might affect his immune system. He recently had his young children vaccinated as soon as they were eligible. He mostly works at home. He believes in the science (since he has a Ph.D. in one of the sciences) that the vaccines are safe and effective - even for someone like him.
Quote from: David Garner on November 26, 2021, 12:18:16 PMIt would honestly be a waste of time. You've made your judgment.
Quote from: Dana Lockhart on November 26, 2021, 11:16:27 PMI don't think anything has failed... not really. The mandates are working. The number of people who are actually willing to risk being dismissed from their jobs, versus bellyaching about it, has turned out to be far fewer than many claimed. A panel of 5th Circuit, three GOP appointed judges, made a ruling. Some applauded it. Others decried it. I guess some here see it as vindication. I wouldn't be so certain: there's a lot of litigation at play. We'll see how things turn out. Mandates work. They are not uncommon, despite unsubstantiated claims to the opposite. Particularly for healthcare related fields, those in government, education, jobs involving foreign travel, etc. they are pretty standard. That some have decided to make an issue of THIS vaccine, versus all the others, is just another unfortunate chapter in our culture wars. Meanwhile, again, 1000+ deaths a day. What makes me sad is that in an alternate timeline, everything would be the opposite. Had the vaccines been approved before the last presidential election, and had Trump (rightfully) taken full credit for them, and had that factored into his re-election... well, we'd be through the looking glass, wouldn't we? The arguments would be all the same, but many of the people making them would be on opposite sides. We have (semi-miraculously) the means to avoid hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. And we're treating it like any other political football. We lack the ability to even lay out any case for vaccination beyond self-interest. Heaven help us if we ever need to implement a draft again. Or actually pay the national debt. It's all sovereign citizens from here on out... Glad you enjoyed the conversation.
Quote from: Charles Austin on November 27, 2021, 01:20:58 AMPeter writes:I think a restaurant or bar should be allowed to allow smoking, and those who don't want to breath second hand smoke don't have to go there.I comment:I have seen ads for "Cigar bars," where those seeking that kind of ugliness can find it.But your view is short-sighted. Many would choose to go to the smoke-filled bars or restaurants, put up with the smell, and - ta da! - be made sick by the second-hand smoke. Workers, too, might make the hard choice - like working in a coal mine - and be made sick. The result is a public health problem. Again, the smoke affects not only the smoker, but in public places, it affects others.
Quote from: Charles Austin on November 27, 2021, 08:51:52 AMP. S. I can understand why some minorities might be skeptical of the vaccines. They have reasons in their history.
Quote from: Charles Austin on November 27, 2021, 09:04:21 AMMr. Garner, you do understand that we are likely to speak differently when we are talking to an individual, trying to persuade him to accept the vaccination? I was so gentle with one distant relative who was refusing the vaccination that I hardly recognized myself in the conversation. What finally convinced this person? They planned a trip to Iceland, and proof of vaccination was required.
Quote from: Dana Lockhart on November 26, 2021, 11:16:27 PM The mandates are working.