Author Topic: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments  (Read 673 times)

peter_speckhard

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Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« on: November 22, 2021, 09:19:58 AM »
The horror of the Waukesha, Wisconsin traditional parade to kick off the Christmas season (too early, but whatever) getting run over, killing at least five people and injuring dozens more, shows a problem with our criminal justice system. The perpetrator appears to be someone with a long, long rap sheet of violent crimes and has just gotten out of prison on bail. People often focused on the problems with three strikes and you're out, but are there not also problems related to an unlimited number of strikes? God's mercy never ends, but at some point the state's mercy has to.

Rob Morris

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 09:31:10 AM »


Prayers for peace and strength for those whose grief today is unimaginable.

And, to the thread topic, there is a point where the trust of the state/citizenry has been so trampled as to forfeit any right for further trust. Ask any therapist - some people's behavior patterns cannot be rehabilitated. I would love to think that all criminals can be counseled into better decisions, but it just isn't true. Protecting everyone else from such bad actors is the rightful role of the government.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 12:31:22 PM by peter_speckhard »

Rob Morris

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2021, 09:33:15 AM »
I should note - part of my media complaint is no doubt unique to me... after my 12/14 experience, I adopted a commitment to not reading this type of "Breaking News" until at least 24 hours later. Earlier reports are so sloppy as to be not just unhelpful, but actually damaging to understanding. Reporters will literally quote anyone who was near the scene, often with no effort to confirm if what they have been told is accurate.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 10:18:46 AM »
https://twitter.com/marklarflash/status/1462763525382844423

This perhaps helps explain why people don't trust the NYT to be America's newspaper. This event happened late afternoon/early evening. It isn't like they found out about it ten minutes before having to put the paper to bed. I can't help but think that if this event had taken place in Milwaukee or Chicago rather than in the "WOW Counties" that offset Milwaukee's and Madison's blue votes and keep Wisconsin purple, it would have been a huge story. Or of the perpetrator were white and the victims predominantly non-white instead of vice versa. Or if the red suv had been flying a Trump flag. Or if the weapon had been a gun instead of a vehicle. Or really anything that could play into the sort of national narratives the NYT reports in lieu of news. But if they can't fit it into a narrative they like, but instead have to treat it simply as a problem of a lax criminal justice system allowing serial criminals to go free, then it merits a tiny blurb.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2021, 01:10:13 PM »
I should note - part of my media complaint is no doubt unique to me... after my 12/14 experience, I adopted a commitment to not reading this type of "Breaking News" until at least 24 hours later. Earlier reports are so sloppy as to be not just unhelpful, but actually damaging to understanding. Reporters will literally quote anyone who was near the scene, often with no effort to confirm if what they have been told is accurate.


I've gotten tired of "news" reports that tell us that they don't know anything yet.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2021, 01:12:50 PM »
I should note - part of my media complaint is no doubt unique to me... after my 12/14 experience, I adopted a commitment to not reading this type of "Breaking News" until at least 24 hours later. Earlier reports are so sloppy as to be not just unhelpful, but actually damaging to understanding. Reporters will literally quote anyone who was near the scene, often with no effort to confirm if what they have been told is accurate.

I've gotten tired of "news" reports that tell us that they don't know anything yet.

They've heard the complaints of you and the like, Brian. So now, before they know anything, the lib media just make up inflammatory stuff.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs


Charles Austin

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2021, 03:35:17 PM »
Pastor MOrris writes:
Reporters will literally quote anyone who was near the scene, often with no effort to confirm if what they have been told is accurate.
I comment:
In breaking news, it is neither the job of the reporter to "confirm" what witnesses say, nor would it be possible. As with any event, including football games, people "see" what they see and if it is not square with reality - whatever that is - that will have to be sorted out later.
I don't like the current way of doing "news" as just the comments of whatever eye-witness you can collar; but that is what television news has done to the business. I was once at the scene of a shooting in Paterson, New Jersey, and asked the owner of the shoe store 20 feet from the site what he saw and heard at 10 a.m. He said he didn't see or hear anything, even when I reminded him he was 20 feet from the shot and people were running and yelling. I almost wanted to quote him in the story, thinking it would make him look like a fool, until I realized that everyone in the neighborhood who read it would know he was lying and would not care.
Nor would it have helped that particular story to do what one tv reporter did, that is, grab people and get them to talk about crime in that neighborhood.
My editors and I went with a general description of the corner and some comments from people who ran when they saw other people running. The rest of the story would have to come later.
Blame television. Blame online communication. In the days before those outlets, newspapers would not have felt the need to get something out in 20 mimutes.
Retired ELCA Pastor. You can say liberal Christians are wrong. You can say that you disagree with our interpretation of faith. But when you say we are driven by “culture” or “trendiness,” you prove that you do not listen to us. Luther fared better with Rome.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2021, 04:02:40 PM »
The entrance of other media has changed the news game over the years. Too young to know how the entrance of radio into the news might have changed things. Television introduced an immediacy into the media and if anything strengthened the "If it bleeds, it leads" mentality. Add to that the bias towards events and coverage that provides strong visuals since TV is a visual media more than a verbal one.


{Totally off the subject, but it occurred to me, for television as a visual medium the visual reigns supreme and affects what stories are told, in what depth they are told, and how much air time is given to them. But even so, the need for words to tell us what the visuals are showing us, giving context, and relating important information not readily apparent visually has not gone away. We still need words. We have long had the words wrongly attributed to St. Francis of Assisi pushed at us, "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary, use words." Just as TV news cannot show us the news without using words, so we cannot preach the Gospel only by example but need words.}


Whether or not that contributed to the temptation to rush with the news to get it out first even if incomplete or misleading, is debatable. Even before radio and TV, print media were hungry for the scoop and issuing special editions to hit the streets with a scoop before their competators.
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Dave Likeness

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2021, 04:24:32 PM »
In the 1960's Walter Cronkite was the gold standard for network TV news
As the anchor for CBS evening news he stated that the Vietnam War was
unwinnable.  Shortly after that newscast, President Lyndon Johnson said
he was not a candidate for re-election.

Fast forward today and we have 24/7 Cable News channels like CNN
and FOX who bombard our TV screens.  Cronkite reported the news
and out of character for him was the pronouncement on Vietnam War.
Today, we have TV commentators who give us their opinion for one hour
and then someone else comes on the screen and does the same thing.
There is less reporting and more commentary on the news to a target
audience.


peter_speckhard

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2021, 06:27:35 PM »
"Brooks [the guy who drove through Waukesha Christmas Parade killing at least five people] was convicted in 2006 of having consensual sex with a 15-year-old and conceiving a child with her. He was sentenced to probation but was arrested for failure to obey sex offender laws in 2016. Brooks then jumped bail on that charge and never appeared in court."

Long prison sentences can be a terrible thing, but there is an upside. Look at the trail of destruction in this guy's wake, not even including a lot of empty seats at Thanksgiving dinners this year in Waukesha. In addition to the people he was convicted of strangling and otherwise abusing, somewhere there is a 30 year old woman who was a 15 year old girl when he got her pregnant (not excusing her consensual part in that, but he was apparently not a minor at the time). There are also her parents, who had to help deal with it, and either an aborted baby or a child who was born into a messed up situation. Adoption can sometimes break that cycle for the baby. But when you go through life like the Tasmanian Devil from Looney Tunes, the damage isn't shaken off like in a cartoon. We like to think in terms of rehabilitation and second chances and to think prison is no answer, but that is because we cannot really see, quantify, or be certain of all the destruction a prison sentence prevents. Certainly if a "law and order" DA had refused bail to Brooks, people could point to it as cruelty, not knowing what was prevented and simply seeing a somewhat tragic figure languishing in prison. But having seen what could have been prevented, people now wonder why bail was so low. Sometimes a prison sentence to a serial offender does for society what an adoption does for a baby-- just stops the cycle from continuing.

As pastors and Christians, we then look at how to minister to people in prison, knowing that they're still people for whom Christ died. I don't think that is antithetical to the role we play as citizens and citizen-government to say that prison is where this person has to be.   




Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2021, 06:56:24 PM »
...convicted in 2006 of having consensual sex with a 15-year-old and conceiving a child with her.

If that's the way Nevada law reads, It's kind of weird. Since a 15-year-old cannot give legally valid consent ( just as she cannot enter into a legally valid contract), how can the sex be "consensual"? If my math is correct, Brooks was 23-24 at the time. In Minnesota, if the child is under 16 and the perp is more than 36 months older and in a relationship with her, "Neither mistake as to the complainant's age nor consent to the act by the complainant is a defense..." It's 1st degree criminal sexual conduct just as if the perp forced himself upon a female adult. In both cases, It's rape.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 07:08:23 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

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peter_speckhard

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2021, 07:09:25 PM »
...convicted in 2006 of having consensual sex with a 15-year-old and conceiving a child with her.

If that's the way Nevada law reads, It's kind of weird. Since a 15-year-old cannot give legally valid consent ( just as she cannot enter into a legally valid contract), how can the sex be "consensual"? If my math is correct, Brooks was 23-24 at the time. In Minnesota, if the child is under 16 and the perp is more than 36 months older and in a relationship with her, "Neither mistake as to the complainant's age nor consent to the act by the complainant is a defense..." It's 1st degree criminal sexual conduct just as if the peep forced himself upon a female adult. In both cases, It's rape.
Well, I think he was still a registered sex offender, so it might be a terminology difference or a different classification based on whatever role resistance or permission play in the act. Sure there is some legal distinction to be made between a man creepily dating a 15 year old and having sex with her vs. a man leaping out from behind the shrubs to grab a 15 year old stranger and raping her as she yells for help. But maybe not, I never know what all the qualifiers like "aggravated" or "second degree" actually mean in any given context until some article explains it, and now that I can't even count on the articles to get that much right, I'll just let the judges and juries worry about it.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2021, 08:27:54 AM »
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/shoplifting-data-Target-Walgreens-16647769.php

This is part of a whole spate of recent articles on the subject of shoplifting, especially smash and grab shoplifting. The troubling new aspects of common theft are that people are doing it openly and daring anyone to stop them and many younger people with no history of problems with the law are participating. The changes seem to accompany the wave of newly elected DA’s who promise not to prosecute misdemeanor crimes in order to keep people from having a record that could hurt them later. But of course, not protecting property or prosecuting thieves is gross dereliction of duty on the part of the civil authority. The DA’s are just as brazen about their disregard for the law as are the thieves calmly filing their bags with goods and walking out of stores.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 08:35:00 AM by peter_speckhard »

peter_speckhard

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Re: Purpose/goal of left hand kingdom punishments
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2021, 10:55:11 PM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/waukesha-suspects-mom-blames-lack-of-mental-health-services-on-tragedy

The killer's mother speaks out about mental illness and how prison was not what her son needed. The interesting thing at the end of the article is that it said he was getting all kinds of help for mental illness from a young age, but then it was determined that he was no longer mentally ill, which is when services were terminated and the string of jail cells began. But that is a tricky one; treating someone as mentally ill when they aren't is an especially cruel form of oppression. A society filled with asylums is hardly better than a society filled with jails, and even the best doctors are dealing with a lot of guesswork when it comes to medications and predicted outcomes in mental illness.

There is no question the left hand kingdom is responsible for making sure people don't mow down parade goers. There is a real question as to whether or to what degree the left hand kingdom is responsible for treating people's mental illnesses.