Started by D. Engebretson, October 29, 2021, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: Charles Austin on October 30, 2021, 12:17:04 PMAnd I'll say it again, Peter, and you can call it off topic if you wish.It is one of the goals of the American Lutheran publicity bureau to foster warm and cooperative relationships among North American Lutherans. You obviously do not believe that this can be done or should be done. And yet here you are, a "official" as it were, of the ALPB and moderator of one of its projects.Something is being compromised or rendered inconsistent here, either you or the ALPB or both.
Quote from: D. Engebretson on October 30, 2021, 11:29:14 AMIt undoubtedly deserves it's own thread, but in some ways the issue is tangentially related. I think that churches on both sides of the theological spectrum have accommodated themselves to the prevailing culture, and to some degree to attract or retain people in their congregations. To greater or lesser degrees we've all done this. One wonders, however, if churches would have gone in certain directions and embraced certain societal movements and changes if they did not feel the pressure of the culture so strongly? Of course, from some perspectives it will be seen as the church taking seriously changes it ignored or should have examined before. From the opposite perspective it is seen as the church accommodating and giving in to the seeming trends. Both sides will claim a serious study of the scripture. And therein lies our impassable divide. The longer I am in the ministry the less I hope to see such a divide ever healed. The approaches are just too different. When your basic approach to scripture is fundamentally different, you are bound to end up in very different trajectories.
Quote from: Charles Austin on October 29, 2021, 08:31:00 PMThe young people I have confirmed in recent years will not stay in a church that does not engage modern life, recognize that their gay and lesbian and transgendered friends have faith and want to exercise it. They will have little to do with a church that requires a "creationist" or quasi-fundamentalist view of the origins of life, and they are sexually active and living together prior to marriage. So what are we to do with these people whom we have brought up, confirmed and who still have the desire to exercise their faith, perhaps not precisely in the ways we taught them? And those who may seek and find a faith in young adult hood will not have years of Sunday School or worship or Christmas/Easter festivities shaping their understanding of Church.I'm sorry, Roger Martim, for what you are experiencing.Some of the most energetic, exciting, hopeful and Gospel-oriented young pastor/priests I know are gay men and women taking "tradition" and the Gospel seriously, but adapting to new understandings and ways of being Christian. And we will not get the disaffected back into the church if we do not take their own self-understandings seriously. If we say they cannot be gay and married or partnered, then...
Quote from: Charles Austin on October 30, 2021, 06:12:42 PMPastor Preus:...so today the ELCA embraces women's ordination and the GLBTQ agenda in obedience to the demands of the religious culture of our day. Me:Can you possibly abandon the canard that what we do in the ELCA is "in obedience to the demands of the culture"?Go ahead. Say we misuse scripture. Say we misunderstand scripture, but stop saying we do what we do in response to some cultural demands.
Quote from: Charles Austin on October 30, 2021, 08:10:12 PMThe LCMS loss of membership, it has been reported here, almost exactly parallels that of the ELCA.