Author Topic: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)  (Read 11019 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #255 on: July 19, 2021, 12:02:37 PM »
Yes, I often criticize them, but not always.

Isn’t that essentially what I wrote?

“The laughing was about Charles’ often criticism and even ridicule of conservative “evangelicals” unless, as here, they serve his purpose.”
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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #256 on: July 19, 2021, 01:35:07 PM »
CRT is often talked about in the abstract, seemingly as almost a kind accusation and judgment. Likewise with "systemic racism."  I keep waiting for specifics as to how all this is supposed to be 'fixed,' especially in the church.  What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"? And what do we tell people of color who have risen to great heights of achievement, such as Dr. Ben Carson or Gen. Colin Powell or Pres. Barak Obama, or many of the entertainers, business people, sports stars, etc. over the course of so many years and decades?  You were just lucky? The system only works for a select few? How does their example inspire other people of color?


In days past, many of the Blacks who rose to great heights, like Sammy Davis, Jr., and Nat King Cole, had to keep quiet about the racism they faced. Reports I've read about Jackie Robinson is that he was chosen to be the first Black baseball player in the major leagues because he was not only an excellent player, but because he had the temperament to take the abuse that he would receive.


Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country. The minorities who succeeded, did so by being quiet. The life spans of those who spoke up, like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. were cut short.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Dave Likeness

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #257 on: July 19, 2021, 01:49:23 PM »
Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King  had two different approaches to racial injustice
Malcolm X advocated violence &  Dr. Martin Luther King stressed non-violence.

Malcolm X in reality became a Black Muslim who did not believe in racial integration
but demanded Blacks become a separate nation.  Dr. MLK was a Baptist pastor who
preached that we are all members of the human race created by God to love one
another.  He believed in racial integration.

Bottom Line: Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King had completely opposite approaches
to racial justice.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 02:02:42 PM by Dave Likeness »

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #258 on: July 19, 2021, 01:49:28 PM »
Could it be that the word "critical" is a problem for conservatives? Going back nearly 50 years, the "critical" tools for Bible study were eschewed by conservatives. Those who used them were often called unChristian or denying the Word of God. We who used them said that they are necessary for properly understanding the message that God is speaking to us through the Bible. Over the years, my discussion with folks who opposed the "critical" tools and methods convinced me that they really don't understand how they are used by most biblical scholars. They create their own definitions of the tools so they can criticize it and demean those who use them.


I see the same thing happening with those who oppose the Critical Race Theory.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #259 on: July 19, 2021, 01:50:50 PM »
Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King  had two different approaches to racial injustice
Malcolm X advocated violence &  Dr. Martin Luther King stressed non-violence.


Their differing approaches to racial injustice didn't stop them from being murdered by those who opposed them. They weren't silent; so they were silenced.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

mariemeyer

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #260 on: July 19, 2021, 02:27:58 PM »
Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King  had two different approaches to racial injustice
Malcolm X advocated violence &  Dr. Martin Luther King stressed non-violence.

Malcolm X in reality became a Black Muslim who did not believe in racial integration
but demanded Blacks become a separate nation.  Dr. MLK was a Baptist pastor who
preached that we are all members of the human race created by God to love one
another.  He believed in racial integration.

Bottom Line: Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King had completely opposite approaches
to racial justice.



Some historians might question the above. True, Malcolm X embraced Islam, but to the best of my knowledge he did not advocate violence. Historians on this Forum may have further in formation about Malcolm X.

Marie Meyer

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #261 on: July 19, 2021, 03:56:53 PM »
Could it be that the word "critical" is a problem for conservatives? Going back nearly 50 years, the "critical" tools for Bible study were eschewed by conservatives. Those who used them were often called unChristian or denying the Word of God. We who used them said that they are necessary for properly understanding the message that God is speaking to us through the Bible. Over the years, my discussion with folks who opposed the "critical" tools and methods convinced me that they really don't understand how they are used by most biblical scholars. They create their own definitions of the tools so they can criticize it and demean those who use them.


I see the same thing happening with those who oppose the Critical Race Theory.
The problem that many of us who opposed the so called "higher criticism" was not the the word "criticism" so much as unquestioning embrace of whatever literary fad then currect (like the dissecting of ancient texts into sources, such as the denial that Homer actually wrote what had been attributed to him) and the profound skepticism that anything taught in the Bible or classic Christian doctrine was true in any but the most symbolic way. The telos of higher criticism seemed to be the various quests for the historical Jesus, which inevitably found that Jesus was nothing like the Jesus found in the Gospels or traditional Christian beliefs (scorned as mere Sunday School faith, perhaps fit for the simple and unsophisticated but not wise scholars), or the project of demythologizing the Bible, i.e. removing all supernatural elements that we modern scientific sophisticates know have no place in reality, or the skeptical "faith" of the Jesus Seminar,  and scholars like John Dominic Crossen and Bart Ehrmann. Sorry, not inclined to go there.


Being critical, however, was itself not necessarily rejected. The era of skepticism of textual criticism had long since passed in conservative LCMS circles by the time I hit college in the 70s. We were expected to learn the canons of textual criticism and use the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #262 on: July 19, 2021, 04:07:12 PM »
Pastor Fienen, yours is the worst description of higher criticism that I have ever seen.
And you assume the worst about every aspect of it, you compare it with the worst things that you think you have found.
Not helpful.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Dave Likeness

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #263 on: July 19, 2021, 04:56:52 PM »
Malcolm X was glad when he heard about the assassination of President J.F. Kennedy.
He said that it was a case of "chickens coming home to roost".

In April 1964, Malcolm X gave a speech entitled "The Ballot or the Bullet"
He encouraged Blacks to vote wisely, but stated that if the government
tries to prevent full equality, it might be necessary to take up arms.

Malcolm X advocated Black Supremacy, Black Empowerment, the Separation of
Blacks and Whites, and sharply criticized the civil rights movement led by
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #264 on: July 19, 2021, 05:21:19 PM »
CRT is often talked about in the abstract, seemingly as almost a kind accusation and judgment. Likewise with "systemic racism."  I keep waiting for specifics as to how all this is supposed to be 'fixed,' especially in the church.  What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"? And what do we tell people of color who have risen to great heights of achievement, such as Dr. Ben Carson or Gen. Colin Powell or Pres. Barak Obama, or many of the entertainers, business people, sports stars, etc. over the course of so many years and decades?  You were just lucky? The system only works for a select few? How does their example inspire other people of color?


In days past, many of the Blacks who rose to great heights, like Sammy Davis, Jr., and Nat King Cole, had to keep quiet about the racism they faced. Reports I've read about Jackie Robinson is that he was chosen to be the first Black baseball player in the major leagues because he was not only an excellent player, but because he had the temperament to take the abuse that he would receive.


Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country. The minorities who succeeded, did so by being quiet. The life spans of those who spoke up, like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. were cut short.

Colin Kaepernick received a lot of 'blow back' specifically because of his act of 'taking a knee' during the National Anthem.  It was interpreted more as much a sign of disrespect for the nation as a protest against police brutality.

You go back in time but neglect to acknowledge the accomplishments of the more contemporary examples I gave.  What about those who grew up and benefited from the gains secured after the time of Malcolm X and MLK?

And, to another point of my post: What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

jebutler

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #265 on: July 19, 2021, 06:28:21 PM »

Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country.

Didn't he get a multi-million dollar deal with Nike along with his own apparel line? Wasn't he also given a slew of awards from different organizations?

https://time.com/5386204/colin-kaepernick-nike-keeps-winning/
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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #266 on: July 19, 2021, 08:03:24 PM »
CRT is often talked about in the abstract, seemingly as almost a kind accusation and judgment. Likewise with "systemic racism."  I keep waiting for specifics as to how all this is supposed to be 'fixed,' especially in the church.  What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"? And what do we tell people of color who have risen to great heights of achievement, such as Dr. Ben Carson or Gen. Colin Powell or Pres. Barak Obama, or many of the entertainers, business people, sports stars, etc. over the course of so many years and decades?  You were just lucky? The system only works for a select few? How does their example inspire other people of color?


In days past, many of the Blacks who rose to great heights, like Sammy Davis, Jr., and Nat King Cole, had to keep quiet about the racism they faced. Reports I've read about Jackie Robinson is that he was chosen to be the first Black baseball player in the major leagues because he was not only an excellent player, but because he had the temperament to take the abuse that he would receive.


Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country. The minorities who succeeded, did so by being quiet. The life spans of those who spoke up, like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. were cut short.

Colin Kaepernick received a lot of 'blow back' specifically because of his act of 'taking a knee' during the National Anthem.  It was interpreted more as much a sign of disrespect for the nation as a protest against police brutality.


 When the Magi came to Jesus and took a knee before the infant (Mt 2:11), was that a sign of disrespect? When a leper knelt before Jesus (Mt 8:2) or the synagogue leader (Mt 9:18), were those signs of disrespect? I'm sure that in every movie I've seen when a new monarch is crowned, the people knelt in both respect and as a sign of subservience to the new ruler. Where did the people get the idea that kneeling was a sign of disrespect? It doesn't come from scriptures or movies.

Quote
You go back in time but neglect to acknowledge the accomplishments of the more contemporary examples I gave.  What about those who grew up and benefited from the gains secured after the time of Malcolm X and MLK?


Like Colin Kaepernick? Or Rodney King? Or George Floyd?

Quote
And, to another point of my post: What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"?


I'm pretty sure that it doesn't look like most of our congregations that are all white. For the most part, we don't know what it would look like in our Lutheran congregations because it hasn't yet happened. We have tended to have our white congregations, and occasionally, we are developed Black Lutheran congregations. We visited one a few times when we lived in Denver. (It had a white pastor, a friend; but most of the members were black.) As the neighborhood changed, it became a Hispanic Lutheran congregation; but it no longer exists. A friend was the pastor of a Black Lutheran mission congregation in Kansas City. During the week the building was a dance studio. It became a worship space on Sunday. It has also closed.


There was recently a post on Facebook about a pastor who came to.a Lutheran congregation told that "his church was down the street." That usher didn't know that he was the guest preacher that Sunday. That got a talkin' to. For the most part, we have not created multi-cultural congregations.


It was mentioned in another discussion that 50 years for the Vatican II reforms is not a long time in church history. What as created back then is still the "new liturgy." It's only been about 60 years since different ethnic Lutherans came together when TALC was created in 1960. It brought together German, Norwegian, and Danish Lutherans into one church body. 1962 brought together Germans, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Icelandic, and Slovak Lutherans in the LCA.


We Lutherans had difficulties coming together as white, Northern European, Lutheran Christians. Is it any wonder we have difficulties reaching out  and bringing in people who aren't from northern European cultures?



"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #267 on: July 19, 2021, 09:13:58 PM »
CRT is often talked about in the abstract, seemingly as almost a kind accusation and judgment. Likewise with "systemic racism."  I keep waiting for specifics as to how all this is supposed to be 'fixed,' especially in the church.  What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"? And what do we tell people of color who have risen to great heights of achievement, such as Dr. Ben Carson or Gen. Colin Powell or Pres. Barak Obama, or many of the entertainers, business people, sports stars, etc. over the course of so many years and decades?  You were just lucky? The system only works for a select few? How does their example inspire other people of color?


In days past, many of the Blacks who rose to great heights, like Sammy Davis, Jr., and Nat King Cole, had to keep quiet about the racism they faced. Reports I've read about Jackie Robinson is that he was chosen to be the first Black baseball player in the major leagues because he was not only an excellent player, but because he had the temperament to take the abuse that he would receive.


Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country. The minorities who succeeded, did so by being quiet. The life spans of those who spoke up, like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. were cut short.

Colin Kaepernick received a lot of 'blow back' specifically because of his act of 'taking a knee' during the National Anthem.  It was interpreted more as much a sign of disrespect for the nation as a protest against police brutality.


 When the Magi came to Jesus and took a knee before the infant (Mt 2:11), was that a sign of disrespect? When a leper knelt before Jesus (Mt 8:2) or the synagogue leader (Mt 9:18), were those signs of disrespect? I'm sure that in every movie I've seen when a new monarch is crowned, the people knelt in both respect and as a sign of subservience to the new ruler. Where did the people get the idea that kneeling was a sign of disrespect? It doesn't come from scriptures or movies.

Quote
You go back in time but neglect to acknowledge the accomplishments of the more contemporary examples I gave.  What about those who grew up and benefited from the gains secured after the time of Malcolm X and MLK?


Like Colin Kaepernick? Or Rodney King? Or George Floyd?

Quote
And, to another point of my post: What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"?


I'm pretty sure that it doesn't look like most of our congregations that are all white. For the most part, we don't know what it would look like in our Lutheran congregations because it hasn't yet happened. We have tended to have our white congregations, and occasionally, we are developed Black Lutheran congregations. We visited one a few times when we lived in Denver. (It had a white pastor, a friend; but most of the members were black.) As the neighborhood changed, it became a Hispanic Lutheran congregation; but it no longer exists. A friend was the pastor of a Black Lutheran mission congregation in Kansas City. During the week the building was a dance studio. It became a worship space on Sunday. It has also closed.


There was recently a post on Facebook about a pastor who came to.a Lutheran congregation told that "his church was down the street." That usher didn't know that he was the guest preacher that Sunday. That got a talkin' to. For the most part, we have not created multi-cultural congregations.


It was mentioned in another discussion that 50 years for the Vatican II reforms is not a long time in church history. What as created back then is still the "new liturgy." It's only been about 60 years since different ethnic Lutherans came together when TALC was created in 1960. It brought together German, Norwegian, and Danish Lutherans into one church body. 1962 brought together Germans, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Icelandic, and Slovak Lutherans in the LCA.


We Lutherans had difficulties coming together as white, Northern European, Lutheran Christians. Is it any wonder we have difficulties reaching out  and bringing in people who aren't from northern European cultures?

Good grief, Brian! Analogizing kneeling before Jesus and Colin Kaepernick showing disrespect to our flag?!!

Colin Kaepernick took the knee during the national anthem before a match in 2016. He said he could not stand to show pride in the flag of a country that oppressed black people. It was a sign of disrespect.   ::)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 09:15:47 PM by Donald_Kirchner »
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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #268 on: July 19, 2021, 10:07:18 PM »
CRT is often talked about in the abstract, seemingly as almost a kind accusation and judgment. Likewise with "systemic racism."  I keep waiting for specifics as to how all this is supposed to be 'fixed,' especially in the church.  What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"? And what do we tell people of color who have risen to great heights of achievement, such as Dr. Ben Carson or Gen. Colin Powell or Pres. Barak Obama, or many of the entertainers, business people, sports stars, etc. over the course of so many years and decades?  You were just lucky? The system only works for a select few? How does their example inspire other people of color?


In days past, many of the Blacks who rose to great heights, like Sammy Davis, Jr., and Nat King Cole, had to keep quiet about the racism they faced. Reports I've read about Jackie Robinson is that he was chosen to be the first Black baseball player in the major leagues because he was not only an excellent player, but because he had the temperament to take the abuse that he would receive.


Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country. The minorities who succeeded, did so by being quiet. The life spans of those who spoke up, like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. were cut short.

Colin Kaepernick received a lot of 'blow back' specifically because of his act of 'taking a knee' during the National Anthem.  It was interpreted more as much a sign of disrespect for the nation as a protest against police brutality.


 When the Magi came to Jesus and took a knee before the infant (Mt 2:11), was that a sign of disrespect? When a leper knelt before Jesus (Mt 8:2) or the synagogue leader (Mt 9:18), were those signs of disrespect? I'm sure that in every movie I've seen when a new monarch is crowned, the people knelt in both respect and as a sign of subservience to the new ruler. Where did the people get the idea that kneeling was a sign of disrespect? It doesn't come from scriptures or movies.

Quote
You go back in time but neglect to acknowledge the accomplishments of the more contemporary examples I gave.  What about those who grew up and benefited from the gains secured after the time of Malcolm X and MLK?


Like Colin Kaepernick? Or Rodney King? Or George Floyd?

Quote
And, to another point of my post: What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"?


I'm pretty sure that it doesn't look like most of our congregations that are all white. For the most part, we don't know what it would look like in our Lutheran congregations because it hasn't yet happened. We have tended to have our white congregations, and occasionally, we are developed Black Lutheran congregations. We visited one a few times when we lived in Denver. (It had a white pastor, a friend; but most of the members were black.) As the neighborhood changed, it became a Hispanic Lutheran congregation; but it no longer exists. A friend was the pastor of a Black Lutheran mission congregation in Kansas City. During the week the building was a dance studio. It became a worship space on Sunday. It has also closed.


There was recently a post on Facebook about a pastor who came to.a Lutheran congregation told that "his church was down the street." That usher didn't know that he was the guest preacher that Sunday. That got a talkin' to. For the most part, we have not created multi-cultural congregations.


It was mentioned in another discussion that 50 years for the Vatican II reforms is not a long time in church history. What as created back then is still the "new liturgy." It's only been about 60 years since different ethnic Lutherans came together when TALC was created in 1960. It brought together German, Norwegian, and Danish Lutherans into one church body. 1962 brought together Germans, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Icelandic, and Slovak Lutherans in the LCA.


We Lutherans had difficulties coming together as white, Northern European, Lutheran Christians. Is it any wonder we have difficulties reaching out  and bringing in people who aren't from northern European cultures?

Good grief, Brian! Analogizing kneeling before Jesus and Colin Kaepernick showing disrespect to our flag?!!

Colin Kaepernick took the knee during the national anthem before a match in 2016. He said he could not stand to show pride in the flag of a country that oppressed black people. It was a sign of disrespect.   ::)


I don't know about you, but I'm not proud of our country's oppression of Black people; and other people of color.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #269 on: July 19, 2021, 10:13:50 PM »
CRT is often talked about in the abstract, seemingly as almost a kind accusation and judgment. Likewise with "systemic racism."  I keep waiting for specifics as to how all this is supposed to be 'fixed,' especially in the church.  What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"? And what do we tell people of color who have risen to great heights of achievement, such as Dr. Ben Carson or Gen. Colin Powell or Pres. Barak Obama, or many of the entertainers, business people, sports stars, etc. over the course of so many years and decades?  You were just lucky? The system only works for a select few? How does their example inspire other people of color?


In days past, many of the Blacks who rose to great heights, like Sammy Davis, Jr., and Nat King Cole, had to keep quiet about the racism they faced. Reports I've read about Jackie Robinson is that he was chosen to be the first Black baseball player in the major leagues because he was not only an excellent player, but because he had the temperament to take the abuse that he would receive.


Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick when he took a stand against police brutality, racial injustice, and systemic oppression in our country. The minorities who succeeded, did so by being quiet. The life spans of those who spoke up, like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. were cut short.

Colin Kaepernick received a lot of 'blow back' specifically because of his act of 'taking a knee' during the National Anthem.  It was interpreted more as much a sign of disrespect for the nation as a protest against police brutality.


 When the Magi came to Jesus and took a knee before the infant (Mt 2:11), was that a sign of disrespect? When a leper knelt before Jesus (Mt 8:2) or the synagogue leader (Mt 9:18), were those signs of disrespect? I'm sure that in every movie I've seen when a new monarch is crowned, the people knelt in both respect and as a sign of subservience to the new ruler. Where did the people get the idea that kneeling was a sign of disrespect? It doesn't come from scriptures or movies.

Quote
You go back in time but neglect to acknowledge the accomplishments of the more contemporary examples I gave.  What about those who grew up and benefited from the gains secured after the time of Malcolm X and MLK?


Like Colin Kaepernick? Or Rodney King? Or George Floyd?

Quote
And, to another point of my post: What exactly does a church or community look like where we have supposedly moved beyond the racism that is still so deeply embedded in our current "system"?


I'm pretty sure that it doesn't look like most of our congregations that are all white. For the most part, we don't know what it would look like in our Lutheran congregations because it hasn't yet happened. We have tended to have our white congregations, and occasionally, we are developed Black Lutheran congregations. We visited one a few times when we lived in Denver. (It had a white pastor, a friend; but most of the members were black.) As the neighborhood changed, it became a Hispanic Lutheran congregation; but it no longer exists. A friend was the pastor of a Black Lutheran mission congregation in Kansas City. During the week the building was a dance studio. It became a worship space on Sunday. It has also closed.


There was recently a post on Facebook about a pastor who came to.a Lutheran congregation told that "his church was down the street." That usher didn't know that he was the guest preacher that Sunday. That got a talkin' to. For the most part, we have not created multi-cultural congregations.


It was mentioned in another discussion that 50 years for the Vatican II reforms is not a long time in church history. What as created back then is still the "new liturgy." It's only been about 60 years since different ethnic Lutherans came together when TALC was created in 1960. It brought together German, Norwegian, and Danish Lutherans into one church body. 1962 brought together Germans, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Icelandic, and Slovak Lutherans in the LCA.


We Lutherans had difficulties coming together as white, Northern European, Lutheran Christians. Is it any wonder we have difficulties reaching out  and bringing in people who aren't from northern European cultures?

Good grief, Brian! Analogizing kneeling before Jesus and Colin Kaepernick showing disrespect to our flag?!!

Colin Kaepernick took the knee during the national anthem before a match in 2016. He said he could not stand to show pride in the flag of a country that oppressed black people. It was a sign of disrespect.   ::)

I don't know about you, but I'm not proud of our country's oppression of Black people; and other people of color.

Expected diversion...

I deny the premise.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs