Author Topic: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)  (Read 11023 times)

D. Engebretson

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2021, 09:05:34 PM »
Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod president, Matthew Harrison, posted the Mid South District CRT resolution on Facebook.  His comments begin with one word.  ""Excellent."

I find it totally inappropriate  that the president of my church would use the social media in this way.  What has the LCMS come to?

Former Atlantic District president David Benke offered a resolution that reflects how Christian pastors, particularly those who identify themselves as Lutheran, are called to lead their people in the mission of the Church.

In heart and mind I grieve that the resolution was adopted and that President Harrison posted it on Facebook with his endorsement.

Marie Meyer

What about the resolution "grieves" you?  Is it that the resolution "rejects CRT" or something else?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Norman Teigen

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2021, 02:03:02 AM »
Reading suggestion:   Clint Smith, "How the Word is Passed -  A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America,"  2021.

From today's NY Times:  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/05/opinion/anti-critical-race-theory-laws-are-un-american.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

"Letís not mince words about these laws. They are speech codes. They seek to change public education by banning the expression of ideas. Even if this censorship is legal in the narrow context of public primary and secondary education, it is antithetical to educating students in the culture of American free expression.

"There will always be disagreement about any nationís history. The United States is no exception. If history is to judge the United States as exceptional, it is because we welcome such contestation in our public spaces as part of our unfolding national ethos. It is a violation of this commonly shared vision of America as a nation of free, vigorous and open debate to resort to the apparatus of the government to shut it down."
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 02:55:57 AM by Norman Teigen »
Norman Teigen

Dave Benke

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2021, 07:53:55 AM »
If you read the overtures to the District Convention that were addressed by the resolution several of them explicitly mentioned Lutherans for Racial Justice. The convention was wise in not including such language in the final resolution and concentrating on the biblical issues involved.

You made me look it up, Harry Edmon.  That was fun.  Of course the overtures, from a congregation and mirrored in that congregation's circuit, tell us just what mischief LRJ has been up to, in the opinion of the overture-writer(s).  The result is that whatever the wording in the final resolution, it's actually aimed at LRJ, which was my takeaway from Jeremy's comments. 

So the design is to put LRJ on mute in that Great Zoom Meeting called the LCMS, even with praiseworthy "resolveds" in the resolution finally accepted.

The weird item that turned up in that search is that the congregation authoring the overture is located in McMinnville, TN, and the pastor's surname is McMinn.  Pr. Dave Benke serving St. David's, Benkeville, where all the residents are members and all the members are residents and all the people are left-handed just like Pastor B.

Dave Benke

D. Engebretson

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2021, 08:42:32 AM »
RESOLVED, That the LCMS Mid-South District reject any doctrine that teaches:   


● Any individual is inherently racist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously, because of his or her race, ancestry, or nationality...

This is the part of CRT that I have struggled with the most.  The idea that I am "inherently racist" simply because I was born a while male.  That whatever I have and whatever I have accomplished is traced back to that 'advantage' of my skin color and the history of our country that favored that color.

Now I will admit that many atrocities were committed against minorities.  That's not the debate, at least for me. It's that racism is, in a way, 'cooked' into the very structure of our society - even today. And that I should apologize for all that my forebears have done over the last several hundreds of years of our nation's history.  And what is my responsibility for reparation of these atrocities?  Do I denounce my so-called status as a white American male?

CRT, some content, is only an academic theory mainly discussed in law schools. Or maybe even universities. But not in our lower elementary system.  But it is far more widespread than that. It is being discussed in elementary classrooms. We need to have discussion on this as a society.  Is this 'theory' going to define how people now interact in the future regarding their race?


I would contend that racism is cooked into our human nature. It's part of our sinfulness. It seems that the histories of every civilization includes racist elements. (Not usually based on the color of skin; although that's an obvious difference.)

So by extension, given your inherent "whiteness", do you believe that you are therefore a racist yourself and that all you have and all you have done in your life is owed to the supposed privileges you have enjoyed due to that "whiteness"? And if this is true, do you now want the culture and society in which you live rebuilt to "abolish" this "whiteness"?
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

D. Engebretson

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2021, 09:52:21 AM »
In some places there is a practice of dividing people up based on their perceived status as "oppressed" or "not oppressed."  For example: man/oppressor, woman/oppressed; black/oppressed, white/oppressor, and so on.  "Oppressed people" is defined in the Urban Dictionary as "People who are unfairly being robbed of freedoms"?

Is this practice fair?  Does it not contribute to the ongoing tension to label entire groups in this way, not to mention demeaning to some who may not actually feel "oppressed"? Does this not create a victim class and target people as guilty of things which are they are guilty of?

Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

jebutler

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2021, 10:01:15 AM »
If you read the overtures to the District Convention that were addressed by the resolution several of them explicitly mentioned Lutherans for Racial Justice. The convention was wise in not including such language in the final resolution and concentrating on the biblical issues involved.

You made me look it up, Harry Edmon.  That was fun.  Of course the overtures, from a congregation and mirrored in that congregation's circuit, tell us just what mischief LRJ has been up to, in the opinion of the overture-writer(s).  The result is that whatever the wording in the final resolution, it's actually aimed at LRJ, which was my takeaway from Jeremy's comments. 

So the design is to put LRJ on mute in that Great Zoom Meeting called the LCMS, even with praiseworthy "resolveds" in the resolution finally accepted.

The weird item that turned up in that search is that the congregation authoring the overture is located in McMinnville, TN, and the pastor's surname is McMinn.  Pr. Dave Benke serving St. David's, Benkeville, where all the residents are members and all the members are residents and all the people are left-handed just like Pastor B.

Dave Benke

That congregation put forth two separate overtures, one dealing with CRT and Lutherans for Racial Justice and the other dealing with CRT and its worldview. It looks like the floor committee merged the overtures and, most importantly, removed the reference to LRJ.

Regardless of what the congregation wanted in one of its overtures, what the convention actually passed was, I think, a solid resolution and that is what matters.

I hope the leadership of LRJ respond to the resolution; I'd be interested in reading their response. But I would also hope they respond to the resolution itself and not to its "legislative history."
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

RevG

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2021, 10:05:36 AM »
If you read the overtures to the District Convention that were addressed by the resolution several of them explicitly mentioned Lutherans for Racial Justice. The convention was wise in not including such language in the final resolution and concentrating on the biblical issues involved.

You made me look it up, Harry Edmon.  That was fun.  Of course the overtures, from a congregation and mirrored in that congregation's circuit, tell us just what mischief LRJ has been up to, in the opinion of the overture-writer(s).  The result is that whatever the wording in the final resolution, it's actually aimed at LRJ, which was my takeaway from Jeremy's comments. 

So the design is to put LRJ on mute in that Great Zoom Meeting called the LCMS, even with praiseworthy "resolveds" in the resolution finally accepted.

The weird item that turned up in that search is that the congregation authoring the overture is located in McMinnville, TN, and the pastor's surname is McMinn.  Pr. Dave Benke serving St. David's, Benkeville, where all the residents are members and all the members are residents and all the people are left-handed just like Pastor B.

Dave Benke

You know I have actually been to that church.  I have close college friend who lives in that area and his father-in-law was at one time an active deacon in the area. 

Anyways, hereís what strikes me as rather interesting.  Because some districts went ahead and had their conventions like the Mid-South does this mean we are now poised to have a resolution battle via district conventions?   I would think there were some resolutions coming down the pike in support of LRJ, does this mean they will be reworded and phrased in order to rebuff this resolution?   Is that possible?  Should be an interesting coming year of district conventions.

Peace,
Scott+

Dave Benke

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2021, 10:20:00 AM »
If you read the overtures to the District Convention that were addressed by the resolution several of them explicitly mentioned Lutherans for Racial Justice. The convention was wise in not including such language in the final resolution and concentrating on the biblical issues involved.

You made me look it up, Harry Edmon.  That was fun.  Of course the overtures, from a congregation and mirrored in that congregation's circuit, tell us just what mischief LRJ has been up to, in the opinion of the overture-writer(s).  The result is that whatever the wording in the final resolution, it's actually aimed at LRJ, which was my takeaway from Jeremy's comments. 

So the design is to put LRJ on mute in that Great Zoom Meeting called the LCMS, even with praiseworthy "resolveds" in the resolution finally accepted.

The weird item that turned up in that search is that the congregation authoring the overture is located in McMinnville, TN, and the pastor's surname is McMinn.  Pr. Dave Benke serving St. David's, Benkeville, where all the residents are members and all the members are residents and all the people are left-handed just like Pastor B.

Dave Benke

You know I have actually been to that church.  I have close college friend who lives in that area and his father-in-law was at one time an active deacon in the area. 

Anyways, hereís what strikes me as rather interesting.  Because some districts went ahead and had their conventions like the Mid-South does this mean we are now poised to have a resolution battle via district conventions?   I would think there were some resolutions coming down the pike in support of LRJ, does this mean they will be reworded and phrased in order to rebuff this resolution?   Is that possible?  Should be an interesting coming year of district conventions.

Peace,
Scott+

Yes it will be an interesting year in terms of resolution preparation.  The Synodical convention is two years out, but it's ramp-up time.  With the district convention schedule all over the place, everything will be relatively in slow motion.  This just is a sneak preview.  I think it has more to do with the LCMS Presidential election than with anything else. 

That being said, as I mentioned, the LRJ folks could have written the actual resolveds from the Mid-South resolution.  There is a ferocity in what brought the resolveds about that is where the emotional action is located.  Are there problems with aspects of Critical Race Theory?  Of course.  Are there aspects of it that are useful in understanding not only individuals but treatment over time of people in and from so-called minority communities in our country?  Yes. 

The LRJ folks are sharp, young, mission-outreach-oriented, and interested in exploring all things concerned with racial justice.  Keep on keeping on, is my advice to them.

Dave Benke

mariemeyer

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2021, 10:26:24 AM »
Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod president, Matthew Harrison, posted the Mid South District CRT resolution on Facebook.  His comments begin with one word.  ""Excellent."

I find it totally inappropriate  that the president of my church would use the social media in this way.  What has the LCMS come to?

Former Atlantic District president David Benke offered a resolution that reflects how Christian pastors, particularly those who identify themselves as Lutheran, are called to lead their people in the mission of the Church.

In heart and mind I grieve that the resolution was adopted and that President Harrison posted it on Facebook with his endorsement.

Marie Meyer

What about the resolution "grieves" you?  Is it that the resolution "rejects CRT" or something else?

Pr. Engebretson, What prompts you to ask if there is "something else?"     What in my post suggests your question?

Marie Meyer

David Garner

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2021, 10:30:42 AM »
Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod president, Matthew Harrison, posted the Mid South District CRT resolution on Facebook.  His comments begin with one word.  ""Excellent."

I find it totally inappropriate  that the president of my church would use the social media in this way.  What has the LCMS come to?

Former Atlantic District president David Benke offered a resolution that reflects how Christian pastors, particularly those who identify themselves as Lutheran, are called to lead their people in the mission of the Church.

In heart and mind I grieve that the resolution was adopted and that President Harrison posted it on Facebook with his endorsement.

Marie Meyer

What about the resolution "grieves" you?  Is it that the resolution "rejects CRT" or something else?

Pr. Engebretson, What prompts you to ask if there is "something else?"     What in my post suggests your question?

Marie Meyer

As I read it, Pr. Engebretson was surprised you would be grieved by a mere rejection of CRT, and was wondering basically "is that all?"

Perhaps I misread him, but I don't think it's anything nefarious.  Dr. Benke has said he reads the resolution as a rejection of the work of LRJ, of which I am unfamiliar and cannot comment, but if one were a supporter of LRJ's work and thought LRJ's work did not promote CRT, that would be a reason other than rejection of CRT that might grieve a person.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

D. Engebretson

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2021, 10:32:55 AM »
Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod president, Matthew Harrison, posted the Mid South District CRT resolution on Facebook.  His comments begin with one word.  ""Excellent."

I find it totally inappropriate  that the president of my church would use the social media in this way.  What has the LCMS come to?

Former Atlantic District president David Benke offered a resolution that reflects how Christian pastors, particularly those who identify themselves as Lutheran, are called to lead their people in the mission of the Church.

In heart and mind I grieve that the resolution was adopted and that President Harrison posted it on Facebook with his endorsement.

Marie Meyer

What about the resolution "grieves" you?  Is it that the resolution "rejects CRT" or something else?

Pr. Engebretson, What prompts you to ask if there is "something else?"     What in my post suggests your question?

Marie Meyer

I think it was simply an attempt to cover anything else in the resolution that bothered you.  I just wondered about the specifics behind your "grieving" over the resolution. 

As I was typing this David Garner replied first.  He captures my intent.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

jebutler

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2021, 10:57:22 AM »

Yes it will be an interesting year in terms of resolution preparation.  The Synodical convention is two years out, but it's ramp-up time.  With the district convention schedule all over the place, everything will be relatively in slow motion.  This just is a sneak preview.  I think it has more to do with the LCMS Presidential election than with anything else. 

Really? I don't see how this connects to the LCMS election at all. I can't see any candidate for LCMS president endorsing CRT.


That being said, as I mentioned, the LRJ folks could have written the actual resolveds from the Mid-South resolution.  There is a ferocity in what brought the resolveds about that is where the emotional action is located.  Are there problems with aspects of Critical Race Theory?  Of course.  Are there aspects of it that are useful in understanding not only individuals but treatment over time of people in and from so-called minority communities in our country?  Yes. 

That "the LRJ folks could have written the actual resolveds from the Mid-South resolution," is key. That shows there is no real actual disagreement here; everyone agrees that CRT and its worldview are problematic from an Evangelical Lutheran perspective.

As to the underlying overtures, I get that the pastor has some concerns about LRJ. My question is whether or not he actually spoke to any of the pastors associated with it to get their perspective. It seems to me that this is something that needs some dialogue. My guess is that this pastor and the pastors in LRJ agree on more than they disagree and that the disagreements could be worked through.

As to Scott's question as to whether or not there will be other District resolutions supporting LRJ, I would say yes, but I would have expected those regardless of this resolution. I think many pastors, congregations and circuits would agree with your assessment, "The LRJ folks are sharp, young, mission-outreach-oriented, and interested in exploring all things concerned with racial justice", and would support them accordingly.

I don't know enough about them to comment and I don't think this congregation in Tennessee does either, which is really the sad part.
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

John_Hannah

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2021, 11:00:54 AM »
Are there LCMS pastors or congregations advocating CRT making this resolution necessary? It doesn't seem so.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Dave Likeness

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2021, 11:51:46 AM »
Many of the resolutions at LCMS national conventions are simply reaffirmations of the same
recycled issues.  Yes, the LCMS is in favor of Chevy, Apple Pie, and Motherhood.

Charles Austin

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Re: Mid-South District of the LCMS rejects Critical Race Theory (CRT)
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2021, 12:18:03 PM »
Someone asks:
So by extension, given your inherent "whiteness", do you believe that you are therefore a racist yourself and that all you have and all you have done in your life is owed to the supposed privileges you have enjoyed due to that "whiteness"?
I answer:
Not ďall I have done in my lifeď, but being white has given me privileges and put me in places that helped me along with help that I would not have had if I were African-American, Native American or a recent immigrant.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.