Author Topic: Chauvin Trial and verdict  (Read 9055 times)

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #120 on: April 23, 2021, 07:49:40 PM »
On the other hand,

Monster: "one who deviates from normal or acceptable behavior or character"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monster

https://www.foxnews.com/us/doj-derek-chauvin-2017-arrest-14-year-old-boy-report

"Just like with Floyd, Chauvin used an unreasonable amount of force without regard for the need for that level of force or the victim's well-being. Just like with Floyd, when the child was slow to comply with Chauvin and [the other officer's] instructions, Chauvin grabbed the child by the throat, forced him to the ground in the prone position, and placed his knee on the child's neck with so much force that the child began to cry out in pain and tell Chauvin he could not breathe."

Uh oh!

Negligent retention, anyone?

They already settled for 27 million.    🙄
Don Kirchner

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J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #121 on: April 23, 2021, 08:53:44 PM »
On the other hand,

Monster: "one who deviates from normal or acceptable behavior or character"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monster

https://www.foxnews.com/us/doj-derek-chauvin-2017-arrest-14-year-old-boy-report

"Just like with Floyd, Chauvin used an unreasonable amount of force without regard for the need for that level of force or the victim's well-being. Just like with Floyd, when the child was slow to comply with Chauvin and [the other officer's] instructions, Chauvin grabbed the child by the throat, forced him to the ground in the prone position, and placed his knee on the child's neck with so much force that the child began to cry out in pain and tell Chauvin he could not breathe."

Uh oh!

Negligent retention, anyone?

They already settled for 27 million.    🙄

If these allegations are proven correct the city got a bargain.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 08:55:17 PM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Norman Teigen

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #122 on: April 27, 2021, 01:35:05 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/us/police-use-of-force.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

There is a legal doctrine which is worthy of consideration in this context.  These issues deal with the problem of  'split second decisions.'


« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 01:37:07 PM by Norman Teigen »
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #123 on: April 27, 2021, 05:08:56 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/us/police-use-of-force.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

There is a legal doctrine which is worthy of consideration in this context.  These issues deal with the problem of  'split second decisions.'

I disagree that "split second decisions" applies when an officer chokes someone to death.  It takes quite a while to do.

In any case, while police certainly need something like qualified immunity, the limits to it need re-examining given some of the acts that qualified immunity has been stretched to cover.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #124 on: April 27, 2021, 09:26:01 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/us/police-use-of-force.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

There is a legal doctrine which is worthy of consideration in this context.  These issues deal with the problem of  'split second decisions.'

I disagree that "split second decisions" applies when an officer chokes someone to death.  It takes quite a while to do.

In any case, while police certainly need something like qualified immunity, the limits to it need re-examining given some of the acts that qualified immunity has been stretched to cover.
The problem with qualified immunity, though, is that it clearly separates the government agent from the citizen in terms of rights. Not even soldiers on the battlefield have immunity from prosecution when they commit atrocities. On the other hand, who would bother to confront a criminal if there were serious consequences for getting anything about the encounter wrong and no consequences to oneself for simply letting the criminal go his way? It is quite a conundrum.

Lack of police protection is almost the definition of a bad neighborhood. Anyone with the wherewithal leaves. The neighborhood by default becomes poor and the citizens live at the mercy of criminals. While police need to be accountable, and qualified immunity is perhaps not sufficiently qualified or shouldn't exist at all, we ought to asking ourselves what the demonization of the police does to the future. It is a high stress, dangerous, low paying job. The general respect of the public is one of the rewards. Right now being a police officer is probably very much like serving as a pastor in a congregation rife with alligators and general anti-clericalism-- not a good way to recruit seminarians. 

Norman Teigen

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #125 on: May 02, 2021, 07:21:34 AM »
From the Washington Post:   "If there was a sense of relief after a jury convicted former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin of the murder of George Floyd, it was short-lived. Seems like every day in this country, there is another new — usually Black — person brutalized by police; another new video showing disturbing and dehumanizing actions by those who have sworn to protect and serve. The legitimacy of policing is being challenged in ways never seen before, and that underscores the urgency of reform. Not only will it better safeguard the public, but it also will help the majority of officers who do their jobs lawfully and conscientiously.
"Much of the work to be done must be done at the local and state levels. But Congress needs to do its part: In his address Wednesday night, President Biden called on Congress to pass a police reform bill no later than May 25, which will mark the one year since the death of Floyd. The House for the second time passed the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act in March, mostly along party lines, but it remains stalled in the Senate, where "Republicans favor a competing plan by Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) that is narrower in scope.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 11:56:06 AM by Norman Teigen »
Norman Teigen

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #126 on: May 03, 2021, 11:33:56 AM »
No, it was not a "report," Mr. Teigen. It was an over-the-top opinion piece.
Don Kirchner

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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #127 on: May 03, 2021, 11:37:28 AM »
No, it was not a "report," Mr. Teigen. It was an over-the-top opinion piece.

Those aren't the same things?  ::)

Jeremy
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #128 on: May 03, 2021, 11:41:57 AM »
No, it was not a "report," Mr. Teigen. It was an over-the-top opinion piece.

Those aren't the same things?  ::)

Jeremy

 ;D
Don Kirchner

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Charles Austin

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #129 on: May 03, 2021, 12:25:40 PM »
And of course the “opinion” doesn’t matter because it conflicts with your favorite way of looking at things. At least I take the views of you people seriously.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Heading home from Sioux City after three days and a reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #130 on: May 03, 2021, 01:16:29 PM »
And of course the “opinion” doesn’t matter because it conflicts with your favorite way of looking at things. At least I take the views of you people seriously.
The point was the distinction between news and opinion. When citing a newspaper, calling an opinion piece a report is deceptive.

Charles Austin

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #131 on: May 03, 2021, 01:20:18 PM »
Well, heck, let’s call it a report of an opinion. Problem solved, you’re welcome.
Anyway, in a flash of inspiration last night, I think I came up with a solution. Since everybody else is doing it, let’s allow the police to work from home.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Heading home from Sioux City after three days and a reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #132 on: May 03, 2021, 01:28:55 PM »
Well, heck, let’s call it a report of an opinion. Problem solved, you’re welcome.
Anyway, in a flash of inspiration last night, I think I came up with a solution. Since everybody else is doing it, let’s allow the police to work from home.
If you have find yourself in physical danger and in need of an officer, please accept my apologies in advance for the amount of schadenfreude you will notice drifting toward from the southeast. You're like the pathetic celebrities and politicians who walk with their security details to their big speech calling for defunding the police.

Michael Slusser

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #133 on: May 03, 2021, 01:50:19 PM »
Up the thread a bit, Pr. Speckhard said,
Quote
The problem with qualified immunity, though, is that it clearly separates the government agent from the citizen in terms of rights. Not even soldiers on the battlefield have immunity from prosecution when they commit atrocities. On the other hand, who would bother to confront a criminal if there were serious consequences for getting anything about the encounter wrong and no consequences to oneself for simply letting the criminal go his way? It is quite a conundrum.
     Some of the military here should correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when US forces are in another country, under the Status of Forces agreement with that country [thanks, Pr. Hannah] Rules of Engagement, they often are immune from prosecution for criminal acts against civilians in civilian courts. I've read that about Okinawa; and when President Obama pulled US troops from Iraq, it was at least partly because Iraq wanted to be able to try soldiers in Iraqi courts for crimes committed against civilians and we wouldn't waive immunity.
     Today in the Supreme Court, a West Point cadet was barred from suing the Federal Government for the abuse to which she was subjected by a fellow cadet. Justice Thomas wrote a stinging dissent to the denial of certiorari, asserting that such immunity from suit needed to be reconsidered and probably changed. https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/05/justices-turn-down-cadets-attempt-to-sue-government-over-sexual-assault/
     There's quite a bit of qualified immunity for government agents out there.

Peace,
Michael
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 02:23:50 PM by Michael Slusser »
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Charles Austin

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Re: Chauvin Trial and verdict
« Reply #134 on: May 03, 2021, 01:57:10 PM »
For heaven sake’s, Peter, can you really be so humorless! It was a joke.
You have never heard me say anything positive here about “defunding“ the police. I think I have said here  that it is an unfortunate phrase, and that it should not be taken to the extreme.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Heading home from Sioux City after three days and a reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.