Author Topic: Source of the Church Problem - Liberal viz a vez Conservative  (Read 1479 times)

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Source of the Church Problem - Liberal viz a vez Conservative
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2021, 12:15:18 PM »

Regarding liberal vs. conservative: I recently posted this on Facebook


A criticism leveled at some ELCA folks is that they are just as judgmental towards the non-liberals as conservatives are towards liberals. Properly defined, "liberal" means "willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas" (Oxford New American Dictionary). It just might be that the NALC, LCMS, and other conservatives are testing the boundaries of our openness towards those who are different. E.g., we, (the ELCA,) are proud of our openness towards women and glbt folks, but sometimes are not so open towards conservatives. Granted, it's hard to be open towards the people who want to shut us out; but if we shut them out, we've become just like them.


I'm afraid that some liberals do not fit this definition of liberal.

Very well stated.

There should be a differentiation between classic liberalism (as you outlined) and ideological political "liberals".
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Source of the Church Problem - Liberal viz a vez Conservative
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2021, 12:25:58 PM »
Charles, it is my opinion from my observations the last 5-10 years at least.

It's no longer "freedom of religion" but has become "freedom to worship"
Covid certainly revealed arbitrary decisions regarding the free assembly clause of the 1st amendment. 
Tom brought up the present administration's fluidity regarding the constitution. 

If you don't like that I wrote the present administration made their oaths with their finger's crossed, then I'll change it and say that they made their oaths with the addendum, "until it is not convenient." 


If you believe that your state government overstepped constitutional boundaries by forcing places of worship to close, then you should challenge their decision in court. (The federal government didn't mandate it.) As I noted earlier, my ELCA colleague in town never stopped holding in-house worship services - with precautions. Our state never closed churches, although many stopped holding in-house services - like the one I used to serve.


Oh, I should add, that when a member of that congregation, who opposed the pastor's decision to remain open, had the sheriff's office send a deputy to stop a worship service, the pastor was better informed about our state's mandates than the deputy - and worship continued as he had planned.

I live in Missouri.  I'm good.  Our governor did a decent job, letting the local jurisdictions decide things for the most part.  Some counties acted one way, others in a different way.  I don't think our state fared any worse or any better than other states.  But I'm also glad I don't live in KS or IL.

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Source of the Church Problem - Liberal viz a vez Conservative
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2021, 12:29:34 PM »
Not that it matters, but Iíll give Pastor Loesch a pass on the nature of his comments. My opinion of how he views those who recently took the earth of office isnít important.

You're right.  My view isn't that important.  It holds the same level of importance as yours does. 

And I thank you for the pass.  I inadvertently left my papers at home this morning when I came in to the church study.  The pass was useful at the checkpoint on the highway.  "You have a pass from Charles Austin?  Clearly you are on the ride side of history then.  We're sorry to delay you."   ;)

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Robert Johnson

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Re: Source of the Church Problem - Liberal viz a vez Conservative
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2021, 10:11:43 PM »
I want to at least ďamenĒ what Sterling wrote. That Pr. Austin doesnít recognize the problem is sad but obvious; but what is absolutely befuddling to me and I think to so many across the years is the way that it is given a constant pass (with only an occasional slap on the wrist). And I want to stress: itís not the position put forth that ought not be allowed; it is the manner of its being put forth with ridicule and scorn.

Anybody who is banned for life and then gets reinstated has some serious political juice. And that power is on display in nearly every post.