Author Topic: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521  (Read 3168 times)

Norman Teigen

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Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« on: April 10, 2021, 05:27:51 AM »
 Luther arrives in Worms on April 16. I will be brushing up on my church history this week.  Any thoughts?  Special reading recommendations would be appreciated.
Norman Teigen

John_Hannah

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2021, 08:23:46 AM »
Luther arrives in Worms on April 16. I will be brushing up on my church history this week.  Any thoughts?  Special reading recommendations would be appreciated.

Both of my children were confirmed in Worms at Dreifaltigkeit (Trinity) Church, a few blocks from the famous site of Luther's stand. The American Lutheran chaplains and people who were stationed throughout Europe gathered there twice yearly for confirmation (Pentecost) and Reformation. I was honored to preside at the one when my son was confirmed. These services were fully pan Lutheran. No complaints were heard about that. The Germans were most gracious in letting us use their facilities.   ;D

Peace, JOHN
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 08:26:14 AM by John_Hannah »
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Charles Austin

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2021, 09:48:01 AM »
On our very first trip to Europe, which was in 1969,  I insisted that we visit Augsburg and Worms. We were traveling on the very-very-cheap, but we did it.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Weedon

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 10:02:33 AM »
You know, I’ve never had the least desire to do “pilgrimage” sorts of visits. I’m sure its a defect in me, given how popular they are for so many. But I just don’t see the point. I have no desire to tour Luther sites in Germany nor to visit the Holy Land.

As far as commemorating the events of 1521, a reread of Bainton (on the popular level) or Brecht (on the scholarly level) would be worthwhile, in my opinion. Perhaps with it also a reread of the three great treatises from 1520, or at least of “Freedom of the Christian.”

peter_speckhard

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2021, 10:18:21 AM »
You know, I’ve never had the least desire to do “pilgrimage” sorts of visits. I’m sure its a defect in me, given how popular they are for so many. But I just don’t see the point. I have no desire to tour Luther sites in Germany nor to visit the Holy Land.

As far as commemorating the events of 1521, a reread of Bainton (on the popular level) or Brecht (on the scholarly level) would be worthwhile, in my opinion. Perhaps with it also a reread of the three great treatises from 1520, or at least of “Freedom of the Christian.”
I was right there with you until ten years ago when I actually went. It was a super-discount familiarization tour for clergy and teachers. My parents wanted to go, so we decided to do it together, and I roomed with another pastor. I've been back several times with groups. It can, at times, be very devotional, but everything strikes people differently. There is no telling if or when anything will prove to be a moving experience. But the pure educational value of it is undeniable. History and geography are not everything, but nor are they insignificant aspects of what we're all about, and someone who has been there simply has a much deeper perspective than someone who has seen pictures or read about it.

I spent a semester in Germany, but I never had much of an urge to see the Luther stuff in particular, as in "This is where he grew up, that is where he went to school, etc. etc." I figured I was touring all the old castles and churches, and it was all part of Reformation history, so that was enough for me. Luther the man has never fascinated me all that much apart from the basics of his story. But I can't recommend a Holy Land tour highly enough. Every layer of recorded history is right there, going back to Abraham, and when you come back, virtually every Sunday the pericopes will have added depth.     

Charles Austin

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2021, 11:48:56 AM »
I was thrilled with all of my visits to Luther sites. I have not been to the so-called holy land, and have never had a big desire particular to make that trip.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Dave Benke

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2021, 12:33:37 PM »
Regarding LutherSites:  We went during the 500th anniversary year on a Viking cruise of the Elbe, which was great, with the exception that the Elbe was less than 4 ft. deep that year.  Oops.  So we at and slept on the boat and took bus trips.  Meaning we spent four days at Wittenberg.  Which was pretty cool - my sister, a late life painting artist, won a prize back in New England for a scene of the Elbe and surrounding area.  And those 500 LutherHeads in the town square.  So overall, worth it.  But once is enough.

Regarding Holy Land, it was great - I think I'm done leading tours, having done a bunch of them including one to the Holy Land, but again - worth it.  Steps of our Lord, Jacob's Well, where Jezebel's body was thrown to the dogs - nice!

Dave Benke

John_Hannah

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2021, 12:40:15 PM »
With fellow Lutheran chaplain couples assigned to Europe, Lorna and I were able to enjoy a comprehensive tour of all the Luther (and some Bach) sites on the other side of the wall at the time (1978). The tour was conducted by Oswald (Ozzie) Hoffman who was thoroughly knowledgeable of his subject. An additional treat was to see first hand the life of people in Communist Germany and compare to West Germany where we were living temporarily.

Peace, JOHN
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Norman Teigen

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2021, 06:32:07 AM »
There are many resources available for studying the Diet of Worms, Luther and Conscience. I have chosen to start here:   https://www.elca.org/JLE/Articles/991

What did 'conscience' mean to Luther?  What did ''Religion' mean to Luther? What did 'conscience' mean to the Roman Catholic Church?  What did 'conscience' mean to the other Reformers?  Is there a secular understanding of 'conscience' apart from religious considerations?  Asking for a friend.

Norman Teigen

Dave Benke

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2021, 12:35:43 PM »
With fellow Lutheran chaplain couples assigned to Europe, Lorna and I were able to enjoy a comprehensive tour of all the Luther (and some Bach) sites on the other side of the wall at the time (1978). The tour was conducted by Oswald (Ozzie) Hoffman who was thoroughly knowledgeable of his subject. An additional treat was to see first hand the life of people in Communist Germany and compare to West Germany where we were living temporarily.

Peace, JOHN

Under the leadership of Rodger Venzke at the helm in LCMS Chaplaincy, former District President Howard Patten and I were the leaders of several military chaplain retreats on this side of the pond and in Europe.  One was held in Garmisch - unbelievable location, where former Chaplain and classmate Jim Robinson chauffeured us around.  Rodger asked us to do a dialog message.  Both of us had the same thought - no, thank you.  Because we're wired that way.  So we did a dualog.  Howie spoke, then I spoke, then Howie spoke, etc. until we were done.  It worked better that way.  At the end, we headed to the golf course up there in Bavaria, not that far from Oberammergau. 

In golf there are sand traps which are called bunkers.  The bunkers on this course were actual bunkers, military bunkers buried in the soil from WWII.  Any live ammo?  We didn't want to find out.

Anyway, doing those retreats intentionally according to the then-rules in chaplaincy, which encouraged ELCA/LCMS togetherness, was a great privilege.

Dave Benke

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2021, 02:33:04 PM »
There are many resources available for studying the Diet of Worms, Luther and Conscience. I have chosen to start here:   https://www.elca.org/JLE/Articles/991

What did 'conscience' mean to Luther?  What did ''Religion' mean to Luther? What did 'conscience' mean to the Roman Catholic Church?  What did 'conscience' mean to the other Reformers?  Is there a secular understanding of 'conscience' apart from religious considerations?  Asking for a friend.

"Conscience" is an interesting word. It comes from the Latin con = "with" + scire = "to know."

The same etymology is in the Greek words for conscience, συνείδησις, used 30 times in the NT and σύνοιδα, used twice. Both are based on συν = "with" + οἶδα/εἰδέναι = "to know". It is "knowing with others."

(When these Greek words are used in the LXX, it is nearly always about "knowing" something by witnessing it.) Only once in NETS are they translated "conscience" (Job 27:6) and the Hebrew has "heart". (The ESV also translates/interprets the Hebrew, "heart," in 1 Sam 25:31 as "conscience.")[/font]

This indicates that this "knowledge" doesn't have its origin within us, but from outside of us. It is a shared knowledge "with" others. Paul states in Romans 2:15 that it is a knowledge that has come from God who wrote it on people's hearts. Secularists often think that it is knowledge that comes from one's upbringing. The morals taught to children by parents (and religion). (There are studies trying to discern if there are inborn senses of what is right and wrong. Infants seem to know that physical harm is not good - even when it happens to someone else. However, that can be a misguided conscience as parents have infants vaccinated. The shots hurt, but that pain is necessary for the good that the vaccines do.)

I think the essay gets at this "knowledge from the outside" when it talks about looking to Christ rather than to Moses for our conscience.



"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Richard Johnson

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2021, 11:28:24 PM »
Regarding Israel tours, I was always same place as Will through my ministry. Then I went three years ago. Changed my thinking entirely,Went again last year. Hope I have the chance to go again some time. Fabulous experience.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Dave Benke

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 07:55:49 AM »
I just received a mailing from the LCMS at church announcing, or re-announcing, a fundraiser called "Here I Stand Sunday" in connection with the 500th anniversary of "Luther's defiant defense of the Pure Gospel" at Worms:  https://reporter.lcms.org/2021/synod-to-celebrate-here-i-stand-sunday-in-april/.  It's in connection with the anniversary of the founding of the Synod itself in 1847 which happened at the end of April, and in response to a convention resolution. 

Dave Benke

Dave Likeness

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 08:31:03 AM »
The LCMS Headquarters know where to focus their fundraising efforts
So they solicit Bishop Benke who has the Big Bucks.  President Matthew
Harrison personally signed the letter to him.  April Showers bring May Dollars.

Mark_Hofman

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Re: Diet of Worms Anniversary-1521
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 05:37:33 PM »
“At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said...If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

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The "Here I Stand Sunday" resolution encourages congregations to receive a thank-offering on the 500th anniversary of Luther's defense at the Diet of Worms. It doesn't tell them what to do with it other than use it for "the continued proclamation of the Gospel throughout the world."

Don't like the LCMS International Center (headquarters), President Harrison, Synod's fundraising work/methods, LCMS International Mission, LCMS National Mission, Pastoral Ed..... find something that you believe is worthy of your hard-earned money - as the Lord provides it - and give it there. Keep it local if that's where you believe it will do the greatest good. The invitation to support LCMS mission efforts through a gift to the LCMS is nothing more than an invitation. Giving should always be a voluntary Spirit-driven act, not a humanly manipulated one.