Author Topic: Vaccine Discussin  (Read 2400 times)

Charles Austin

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2021, 08:45:40 PM »
You LCMS guys have - It seems to me, in my not so humble opinion - a real mania about being “right” (as in correct) all the time. You will even settle for a little bit of “right“, Or a partially right. But you have to be right.
In this matter, Pastor Butler, you are a little bit, a teeny tiny bit, a bit so small small it hardly matters, partially right. We agree on that.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.

George Rahn

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2021, 08:51:21 PM »
You LCMS guys have - It seems to me, in my not so humble opinion - a real mania about being “right” (as in correct) all the time. You will even settle for a little bit of “right“, Or a partially right. But you have to be right.
In this matter, Pastor Butler, you are a little bit, a teeny tiny bit, a bit so small small it hardly matters, partially right. We agree on that.

I don’t see the problem.  What is not right about searching for what is right?

Dan Fienen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2021, 09:31:02 PM »
For me, it is also a matter of being credible. That there have been deaths after covid shots is a matter of public record, and it is not just some loony right wing internet conspiracy paranoia. To simply brush that off as nothing to someone who has seen the data and is concerned accomplishes little but sow distrust. Deaths are not nothing. Better to acknowledge that and then realistically look at what it signifies. As jebutler did https://alpb.org/Forum/index.php?topic=7801.msg499758#msg499758 . A possible but very slight risk that is entirely reasonable to take given the magnitude, or perhaps more accurately triviality, of the risk and what is at stake.


But generally speaking, which is a better way to help people overcome their fears and act in sensible ways? Poo poo and ridicule their fears and them, or acknowledge their fears and help them reasonably work through them? I can guess your preferred strategy, never pass up an opportunity to treat with scorn someone without the sense to immediately and unquestioningly agree with you. Perhaps no longer needing to deal with at times unreasonable and unreasoning parishioners you have lost the patience to deal with such.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Dave Likeness

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2021, 09:58:15 PM »
 The right-fielder in baseball is usually the one who has a good throwing arm.
Some of them made the MLB Hall of Fame.....Roberto Clemente of the Pittsburgh
Pirates is one great example.  An excellent right-fielder will often keep a hitter
from stretching a single into a double.  The base runner respects the arm of a
good right fielder.

On this modest forum, a humble correspondent was transplanted from New Jersey
to Minnesota.   His pride permits him to boast that his right arm has been vaccinated
twice.  He keeps throwing that arm in the air and shouting: "I can throw some heifer
dust with the best of them."   The fact is that he throws it so much, that others have
lost respect for his right arm.

Charles Austin

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2021, 10:27:09 PM »
You guys exaggerate. And you seem obsessed with my comments, when we both agree that - in the Waldorf-Astoria Grand Ballroom of life - my words aren’t all that important.
BTW I have absolutely no idea what that baseball reference meant.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2021, 10:41:50 PM »
You LCMS guys have - It seems to me, in my not so humble opinion - a real mania about being “right” (as in correct) all the time. You will even settle for a little bit of “right“, Or a partially right. But you have to be right.
In this matter, Pastor Butler, you are a little bit, a teeny tiny bit, a bit so small small it hardly matters, partially right. We agree on that.

And, I guess, you ELCA guys are happy to be wrong much of the time.  Which means, I suppose, that you must be a very happy man.

jebutler

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2021, 11:22:17 PM »
You LCMS guys have - It seems to me, in my not so humble opinion - a real mania about being “right” (as in correct) all the time. You will even settle for a little bit of “right“, Or a partially right. But you have to be right.
In this matter, Pastor Butler, you are a little bit, a teeny tiny bit, a bit so small small it hardly matters, partially right. We agree on that.

Well, yes. Don't you? I mean, you are the one who argued the point with me in the first place. You are the one who posted the link to a German article which was supposed to disprove my point. Why would you do those things if you didn't think you were right?

But you were wrong and that's what burns you. For all of your protests, you haven't demonstrated where I was wrong in anything that I stated. The only thing you could come up with was using something that I had already pointed out. It's kind of silly to argue a point that's already been conceded.

But when I deal with you I must remember that you publicly accused me of anonymous posting when my name is clearly written on the screen.I think that says a lot about you and your interest in accuracy vs. gaslighting.
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

Charles Austin

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2021, 11:49:25 PM »
Giving up here, except to note that "jebutler" is not a name posted on the screen.
I might guess that you are James E. Butler of Randolph, Massachusetts.
I might guess, based on things you have posted here,  that you are the James E. Butler that is pastor at St. Luke's in Dedham.
But just "jebutler" is not a "name clearly written on the screen."

And the ever-charming Pastor Bohler writes:
And, I guess, you ELCA guys are happy to be wrong much of the time.  Which means, I suppose, that you must be a very happy man.
So I must comment:
I suggest that you don't try to make a career of witty repartee.

Now: How about them vaccines! Terrific, right? Everybody eager to get their shots? Good for you, good for society. Some hiccups along the way, to be sure (Johnson & Johnson, get your act together please), but we're on the way to big-time protection and immunity. Whoo Hoo!
Thanks to the previous guy (now the Hermit of Mar-a-Lago) for telling the drug companies to do something; and B-I-G thanks to President Biden for shooting it out to us.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2021, 12:14:51 AM »
The history of mass vaccination programs is not unspoiled. I remember in 1976 getting the first of two vaccinations for the swine flu. The government was strongly supporting the vaccinations and strongly urging us all to be vaccinated for out own good, and for the good of public health. Never did get my second shot. The whole vaccination was shut down over concern about side effects that were showing up from the shots.


Caution is not always unwarranted.


By the by, this time I've gotten my second shot, no problems.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2021, 02:10:14 AM »
You LCMS guys have - It seems to me, in my not so humble opinion - a real mania about being “right” (as in correct) all the time. You will even settle for a little bit of “right“, Or a partially right. But you have to be right.
In this matter, Pastor Butler, you are a little bit, a teeny tiny bit, a bit so small small it hardly matters, partially right. We agree on that.

And, I guess, you ELCA guys are happy to be wrong much of the time.  Which means, I suppose, that you must be a very happy man.


Most certainly. Jesus came to seek people who do wrong, not those who do right.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2021, 09:30:59 AM »
Here is an example from several months ago of someone not trusting the WHO on vaccines. "The science" is a political tool. Thankfully, the WHO has reversed course and apparently gone back to the original explanation of herd immunity. The point, though, is that last spring/summer there was legitimate debate about the merits of letting the virus spread among low-risk populations in order to achieve herd immunity. People who opposed that idea were able to get the WHO to simply change the science that the public could read. Then they changed it back.

Propaganda is real and pervasive. It does not stay in any left/right boundaries or government/private sector boundaries, or legitimate new/fake news boundaries. It is a power, and people naturally use it to advance what they believe to be good.

https://www.aier.org/article/who-deletes-naturally-acquired-immunity-from-its-website/