Author Topic: Vaccine Discussin  (Read 2401 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2021, 01:11:36 PM »
The “possibility“ for abuse exists in virtually every human activity, including some of those civic actions which you might prefer. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take those actions, even if we watch out for signs of abuse.


It seems to me that the first abuse was when Eve and Adam took matters into their own hands and did whatever they wanted without giving any thought to God or the world God had given them. Selfish individualism as at the heart of human sinfulness.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2021, 01:12:32 PM »
If I've already had the virus do I need to be vaccinated against it?  I've heard from several sources that if you've already had it and get vaccinated the side effects can be quite serious.


But you'll get a little card that may be your passport to travel and events. :)
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2021, 01:26:34 PM »
For heaven’s sake! Pastor Preus, we do not make decisions like this based on something that we “heard.” We read what the experts are saying, what the scientists are advising, what the medical profession is suggesting that we do. You don’t even know, I think, whether you’ve already had the virus. Talk to doctors. Don’t mess around with something you have “heard.”
Yes, there can be uncomfortable side effects. Big deal. Sometimes medicine hurts.  The side effects cannot kill you, they are the result of your body setting itself up to protect you against the virus. The virus can kill you.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.

RDPreus

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2021, 01:32:08 PM »
I'm pretty sure I've had it.  Doesn't that make me immune? 

Dan Fienen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2021, 01:32:39 PM »
If I've already had the virus do I need to be vaccinated against it?  I've heard from several sources that if you've already had it and get vaccinated the side effects can be quite serious.
Consult with your doctor in this situation. He may need to consult experts in order to give you sound advice.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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RDPreus

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2021, 01:33:39 PM »
If I've already had the virus do I need to be vaccinated against it?  I've heard from several sources that if you've already had it and get vaccinated the side effects can be quite serious.
Consult with your doctor in this situation. He may need to consult experts in order to give you sound advice.

Thanks, Dan.  That's good advice.

James_Gale

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2021, 01:37:08 PM »
First shot of Moderna down. My arm is a little sore (like a tetanus booster) but otherwise no ill effects.


I've had both Moderna doses.  The first was no different from a flu shot.  My arm was sore for a couple days, but the pain was very minor.  It did not inhibit my range of motion or interfere with my sleep.  (For some context, my arm was much more sore after the shingles vaccine.)


The second dose caused me about the same degree of pain as the first.  My sleep was a little troubled the first night, but not from arm pain.  I had weirdly unsettling dreams (nothing tawdry and nothing I'd call a nightmare, just weird).  The next day, my head was a little cloudy.  No fever.  No aches.  By the second day, I was absolutely fine.


Of course, your experience might be very different.

Eugene Crowner

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2021, 01:41:00 PM »
Given my medical history, two more needles is the last thing I need.  On the other hand, only two more needles would never even be noticed.

In this case, two needles never being noticed prevailed, I had no problems with the vaccine whatsoever.

Eugene Crowner

JEdwards

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2021, 01:45:38 PM »
If I've already had the virus do I need to be vaccinated against it?  I've heard from several sources that if you've already had it and get vaccinated the side effects can be quite serious.
The official recommendation is still to get the vaccine, as it appears that the vaccine generates a more robust response than natural infection.  However, we are starting to see some data that a single dose of Moderna or Pfizer may provide adequate protection to persons who previously had COVID. 

Peace,
Jon

James_Gale

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2021, 01:49:37 PM »
I'm pretty sure I've had it.  Doesn't that make me immune?


You might have immunity from having had COVID.  An antibody test would give you at least a bit of relevant information on that front.


The CDC at the point is recommending vaccination for those who have had COVID.  The big debate seems to be whether two doses are necessary (of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines) for such people.  Fighting off the disease potentially primes your immune system the way that the first dose does for others.  Thus, when you get the vaccine, your immune system is primed to strike.  That's why people are more likely to have bad reactions to the second dose than to the first.  And it's why bad reactions to the first dose are more common among those who have had COVID than among those who have not. 

peter_speckhard

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2021, 01:54:31 PM »
The “possibility“ for abuse exists in virtually every human activity, including some of those civic actions which you might prefer. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take those actions, even if we watch out for signs of abuse.
True. I would say it is not so much a possibility as an inevitability unless it meets some resistance. The whole "power corrupts" thing and original sin. We could reduce truancy, bail-skipping, and almost eliminate kidnappings, abductions, and a host of other social ills, saving many lives, if the government would simply mandate implanted tracking devices in all citizens. And people who weren't up to no good wouldn't even know the devices were there. But I'd oppose that idea, too, and for many of the same reasons.

The vaccine passports are an idea. I think they are a bad idea, so I won't participate if I can avoid it.

Charles Austin

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2021, 02:05:50 PM »
Pastor Preus:
Thanks, Dan.  That's good advice.
Me:
And it was good advice when I gave it, too.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2021, 02:12:06 PM »
Pastor Preus:
Thanks, Dan.  That's good advice.
Me:
And it was good advice when I gave it, too.
But Dan managed to give it with without embedding the advice in a ridiculous rant.

jebutler

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2021, 02:43:52 PM »
Pastor Preus:
Thanks, Dan.  That's good advice.
Me:
And it was good advice when I gave it, too.

You did? Reading your response to me, it sounds like your knickers are in a twist.

You also stated:

The side effects cannot kill you.

A pastor friend of mine had a bad reaction to the first Moderna shot, is now having a great deal of trouble breathing, and is on constant oxygen. He had no problems before getting the  vaccine.

If he was not on constant oxygen, he would be dead.

There have been reports of others who have died from the vaccine.

Now the chances of those types of reactions are very small; less than 1 in 10,000. But low probabilities--even extremely low ones--are not the same as "cannot."
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

Dan Fienen

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Re: Vaccine Discussin
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2021, 02:59:52 PM »
Pastor Preus:
Thanks, Dan.  That's good advice.
Me:
And it was good advice when I gave it, too.
While a spoon full of sugar may help the medicine go down, a soupcon of abuse rarely helps the advice be heeded.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS