Author Topic: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War  (Read 5190 times)

Charles_Austin

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2007, 12:27:34 PM »
Re the remark about pastors making "economic and political pronouncements in areas they lack expertise" --

Then someone comments
you must really be loving ELCJHL (Palestinian) bishop's remarks. 

I note:
Say what you will about this sort of thing; but to apply it to Bishop Younan would be wrong. This is a man who daily, and for years, has dealt directly and personally with leaders and ordinary people in the Middle East. One might not like what he says, but to accuse him of lacking "expertise" is just wrong, unless someone here claims to have more personal involvement, a longer history and greater expertise in the Middle East than Bishop Younan has.

Deb_H.

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2007, 12:39:01 PM »
I checked.  It is $50 total as a visitor -- not $50 per day.

That's new; the Orlando fee was at least $250, and even our synod has a fee for visitors (I think it was $150).  I agree with the $15/day visitor pass then ... that's about right if it's $50 for the entire week.

Deb

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2007, 12:58:52 PM »
Is there a way that the poor though might be approved for a reduced fee? For the ELCA to have a rather high fee (I can get a darn nice seat at a Twins game for $50) and not have a mechanism to allow poor people to visit would be hypocritical. There are many proclamations from ELCA leadership that demand more redistribution of wealth and rich people getting all the breaks. For the ELCA to charge $50 to have access to just view the power structure at work excludes many of limited financial means. For instance, if I were a struggling college student thinking about seminary, that fee would be quite an inhibition.
Become a volunteer -- for a little work, you get in for free.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2007, 01:03:22 PM »
That's new; the Orlando fee was at least $250, and even our synod has a fee for visitors (I think it was $150). I agree with the $15/day visitor pass then ... that's about right if it's $50 for the entire week.
Nope. I just checked my check records: I paid $50 total to be a visitor in Orlando -- not counting airfare and hotel room. I think that the $250 fee was for registered congregational observers, or some title like that, who received all the paper work that the voting members received.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2007, 01:07:25 PM »
A word of history. There has always been a registration fee for ELCA assemblies and there were registration fees for conventions of the Lutheran Church in America. The costs of putting on such an event are considerable and necessary. I don't see anything wrong in charging a fee for taking part in the assembly as a visitor. The fee is also a way to assure that people who are either not serious or maybe even desire to make trouble can be identified. At the constituting convention of the ELCA, there were even death threats against the presiding bishop, and registering visitors was and restricting access was an absolute necessity. I see no problem with a fee.

Many of us would agree again Charles, I have no problem with a fee. 


If this "expression of the church" can charge admission to its services of worship then there should be no problem with the congregational expression selling tickets to its most popular Christmas liturgies.

As soon as the coin....
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2007, 01:12:11 PM »
If this "expression of the church" can charge admission to its services of worship then there should be no problem with the congregational expression selling tickets to its most popular Christmas liturgies.
There is no admission charge to the worship services. Anybody can attend -- name badges are not required. Worship services are in a different ballroom. There are no security people at the doors. Voting members and others are not segregated from each other.

It is the ballroom for the plenary sessions (business meetings) where there is security and limited access.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles_Austin

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2007, 01:21:28 PM »
Tom Shelley writes:
If this "expression of the church" can charge admission to its services of worship then there should be no problem with the congregational expression selling tickets to its most popular Christmas liturgies.

I observe:
Brian is right. The worship services are open. And to equate a registration fee with selling tickets to Christmas is just silly.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Wednesday Morning Plenary: Action on Iraq War
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2007, 02:04:48 PM »
If this "expression of the church" can charge admission to its services of worship then there should be no problem with the congregational expression selling tickets to its most popular Christmas liturgies.
There is no admission charge to the worship services. Anybody can attend -- name badges are not required. Worship services are in a different ballroom. There are no security people at the doors. Voting members and others are not segregated from each other.

It is the ballroom for the plenary sessions (business meetings) where there is security and limited access.

THANK YOU for that very needed clarrification!  I was beginning to wonder if the past 489 3/4 years had been in vain.
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015