Author Topic: God's regard  (Read 3118 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2021, 12:16:51 AM »
I think TLSB is generally pretty good, certainly better for congregational Bible studies than any other study Bible I know of. Sure, there are unfortunate omissions or comments/notes I take exception to, but man, talk about a tough crowd. It was a massive undertaking and generally well done. If anyone in this forum found a study Bible they had zero problems with, I guarantee you other people in this forum would have huge problems with it.

Instead of fault-finding or insisting that there is no defense/excuse/reasonable explanation for what it does or does not say, why not simply write what the various notes should have said?

As I suspected, much of the Mary stuff was probably considered taking a side in some controversy. The study Bible project probably couldnít afford to be delve into disputed waters too much and still expect wide acceptance in synod.

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2021, 06:56:48 AM »
For those who have complaints about the Study Bible, be sure you write out your concerns clearly and submit them to the current Bible editor at CPH. That is the best way to have your concerns represented and addressed.

Be sure to cite the specific page and text you think needs to be changed or improved. General complaints will be little help to the editor and will likely produce no results. Broad changes will not be made due to associated costs; smaller corrections may be made at a reprinting. That's the process.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 07:04:26 AM by Rev. Edward Engelbrecht »
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D. Engebretson

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2021, 08:52:05 AM »
I agree with Pr. Speckhard that TLSB is "generally pretty good."  I use it frequently along with other source material and other study bibles, as well as the Greek/Hebrew scriptures, etc. Study Bibles are like commentaries in that you will always find some who believe the given work is good and some who take issue with it.  The Concordia Commentary series, of which I own several volumes and use regularly, has taken similar criticism on certain volumes.  In the front of the TLSB you find almost 60 "Writers of Study Notes" listed, and over 50 names as those who contributed to the many articles, charts and maps. Many of the names represent established scholars in the LCMS both inside and outside of academia, some who are also accomplished authors in their own right.  I think that Pr. Engelbrecht did a great job in shepherding this massive project which produced a very useful reference Bible. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Weedon

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2021, 09:03:16 AM »
Bishop, I noted your kind comment and appreciated it. For any are interested, here is the link (note: thread drift). Also please note that while I am the author of the article, Iím not the author of the title. :)

https://witness.lcms.org/2021/did-vatican-ii-ruin-palm-sunday/

Peter and Don, I said that thereís a lot of good info in the study Bible, but I still cannot wrap my mind around how DR passed that statement. Obviously, I have not searched the Bible like Marie has. I honestly rarely use it. I pull it out on occasion to check how the study notes dealt with this or that passage, but as I said: Iíve taken to almost exclusively using my KJV without notes. After all, as this morningís Psalm reminded me: ďThe entrance of Thy words giveth light.Ē It is not that we need to bring some light TO Godís Word, but it is the light God gives us to bring to everything else!

Edward, good counsel!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 09:05:48 AM by Weedon »

Dave Benke

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2021, 09:10:34 AM »
I suppose the shortest answer to your question, Don, is that I don't study the Bible with a study Bible for the most part.  It's more productive for my brain, such as it is, to study the text and context directly, and then fill in with other resources. 

Just reading Will's post, which is similar.  Also, the title not coming from the author of the blog article is a helpful addendum for me.  I wrote a book for CPH back in the late middle ages and gave them two titles either of which seemed on point to me.  They opted for a third, of their (who were they?) own. 

Dave Benke

peter_speckhard

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2021, 09:37:22 AM »
I don't think a study Bible is meant to be a pastor's study material. It is meant for general congregational and in-home use. It gives basic information like the who, what, when, where, and why of various books, explains theological terms, gives translations of names, gives maps of, say, Paul's missionary journeys, various charts on things like OT feast days, illustrations of things like the Tabernacle, and of course, footnotes of varying degrees of helpfulness. TLSB also has little application pages, like (to pick one at random) p. 1425, between Daniel and Hosea, which gives purely practical, rubber-hits-road tips in an article on how one can use the basic doctrines of the Apostles' Creed in doing personal, conversational evangelism, as well as a suggested, lifelong course of Christian growth via catechism study, prayer, and witness.

People like Dave and Will, as well as pastors generally, have already learned far more in seminary than the study Bible offers. But I've found it to very valuable in leading Bible studies at church and recommend it for people who want to give a Bible as a gift to a grandchild or whatever. Sure, I've come across difficult passages where the footnotes essentially punted and didn't address the actual difficulty, or places where I've had to point out that there is some dispute about a matter that TLSB presents as cut and dried. and, as we've noted, an unfortunate lack of a full page/article on the topic of Mary. But if everyone came to the Bible study with a KJV without notes, a lot more of the Bible study would be spent filling in details and explanations that TLSB addresses right off the bat. 

D. Engebretson

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2021, 09:41:09 AM »
I realize that it is thread drift, but the idea of study Bibles is an interesting topic in its own. I have what is probably one of the early LCMS ones, dated 1942 with John T. Mueller as the editor. It was billed as "pocket size" and was a revision of the New Testament with Notes, published by the American Tract Society. It is a copy that originally belonged to my wife's grandfather who was a very devout and studious Lutheran layman. Looking at the notes on the Magnificat in particular, it is interesting that the great concern was about some praying to Mary and paying her "divine honors." A sizeable note is provided on verse 48 of Luke 1 commenting on Mary's words that "all generations will call me blessed."

Over the years several church bodies have published their own study bibles. I remember when the Orthodox church came out with one published by Thomas Nelson, complete with prayers and devotional aids, whose notes were referenced profusely with the early church fathers. The Roman Catholic church has a number of them as well, as well as a substantial one put out by the Reformed church called the Geneva Study Bible.  It is an interesting and quick way to compare and contrast how various Christian traditions may treat a given passage or section of scripture.

I realize that one should approach a study of scripture on its own as you begin.  There is always the temptation to cut the process short by taking what someone else said and short-changing a serious wrestling with the text.  I think that many pastors today do this by the very fact that they no longer use the original languages.  A friend of mine, a newly ordained pastor at the time, sold me his copy of Lenski's commentary set while I was on vicarage.  It surprised me at the time.  I don't look at Lenski a lot these days, but his detailed approach to the Greek is still relevant and helpful.  I see study bibles as small commentaries in a similar ways; useful for reference and comparison.  I think they are especially helpful for our laity who lack formal training in exegesis.  I'm sure that it was a great aid to my wife's grandfather in his day. 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 09:42:45 AM by D. Engebretson »
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

John_Hannah

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2021, 09:46:08 AM »
Bishop, I noted your kind comment and appreciated it. For any are interested, here is the link (note: thread drift). Also please note that while I am the author of the article, Iím not the author of the title. :)

https://witness.lcms.org/2021/did-vatican-ii-ruin-palm-sunday/


The pastoral advantage to the reform of Palm/Passion Sunday is that the many who do not come on Good Friday will hear the "Greatest Story Ever Told" at least once on  Sunday.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Weedon

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2021, 09:51:40 AM »
You know, thereís a member here at St. Paul who frowned when TLSB came out (and of course, I did recommend it to the whole congregation; and still would). But his comment struck me, probably something his pastor taught him as a youth. He said: ďCatholics and others have to put notes in their Bible because they donít teach exactly and clearly what the Scriptures say and need to explain some things away; Lutheran Bibles donít need notes, because we just believe what God says.Ē  But I pointed out to him, as Peter writes above, that it is useful for maps and info on the different cultures and times we encounter there. Still it has stuck with me and given me pause.

D. Engebretson

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2021, 09:54:41 AM »
Bishop, I noted your kind comment and appreciated it. For any are interested, here is the link (note: thread drift). Also please note that while I am the author of the article, Iím not the author of the title. :)

https://witness.lcms.org/2021/did-vatican-ii-ruin-palm-sunday/


The pastoral advantage to the reform of Palm/Passion Sunday is that the many who do not come on Good Friday will hear the "Greatest Story Ever Told" at least once on  Sunday.

Peace, JOHN

When I came to my current parish over 20 years ago they still had the tradition of celebrating confirmation on that Sunday.  This was not something I was familiar with in my youth or early ministry, but kind of understood it was a way to allow youth to participate in the Sacrament on Maundy Thursday.  That said, it bothered me that I couldn't have Lent on its own terms, so after that first year I moved confirmation to a later date and restored Palm Sunday to its original intent, albeit with Passion Sunday as well, as this newer tradition had already set it by 2000.  Personally, I would like to celebrate Palm Sunday as a 'stand alone,' and always make sure the Palm Sunday procession is included, and further, I often preach on the Palm Sunday gospel reading.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Weedon

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2021, 09:59:06 AM »
Don, thatís what I opted to do this year: preach the Palm Sunday Gospel (though weíll still have the St. Matthew Passion) because weíve preached the conflated passion throughout Lent.

John_Hannah

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2021, 10:07:06 AM »

Personally, I would like to celebrate Palm Sunday as a 'stand alone,' and always make sure the Palm Sunday procession is included, and further, I often preach on the Palm Sunday gospel reading.


The Palm Sunday procession is a cherished tradition. It is kept by all the churches I know who also keep the Passion Gospel.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2021, 10:08:46 AM »
Bishop, I noted your kind comment and appreciated it. For any are interested, here is the link (note: thread drift). Also please note that while I am the author of the article, Iím not the author of the title. :)

https://witness.lcms.org/2021/did-vatican-ii-ruin-palm-sunday/

Peter and Don, I said that thereís a lot of good info in the study Bible, but I still cannot wrap my mind around how DR passed that statement. Obviously, I have not searched the Bible like Marie has. I honestly rarely use it. I pull it out on occasion to check how the study notes dealt with this or that passage, but as I said: Iíve taken to almost exclusively using my KJV without notes. After all, as this morningís Psalm reminded me: ďThe entrance of Thy words giveth light.Ē It is not that we need to bring some light TO Godís Word, but it is the light God gives us to bring to everything else!

Edward, good counsel!

Will, your comments on the study Bible and commentaries reminds me of sitting in Lou Brighton's NT Isagogics class..."Gentlemen...know the Word.  Love the Word.  Be your own commentary." 

Thanks for the flashback.

Jeremy

PS- I try to be my own commentary, but do rely on some of the books on my shelves. 
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Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2021, 10:21:58 AM »
Bishop, I noted your kind comment and appreciated it. For any are interested, here is the link (note: thread drift). Also please note that while I am the author of the article, Iím not the author of the title. :)

https://witness.lcms.org/2021/did-vatican-ii-ruin-palm-sunday/

Peter and Don, I said that thereís a lot of good info in the study Bible, but I still cannot wrap my mind around how DR passed that statement. Obviously, I have not searched the Bible like Marie has. I honestly rarely use it. I pull it out on occasion to check how the study notes dealt with this or that passage, but as I said: Iíve taken to almost exclusively using my KJV without notes. After all, as this morningís Psalm reminded me: ďThe entrance of Thy words giveth light.Ē It is not that we need to bring some light TO Godís Word, but it is the light God gives us to bring to everything else!

Edward, good counsel!

Will, what is the specific error you see? Can you quote it with a page reference?

Marie, is your concern that there is no specific article on Mary?

TLSB was not the first Lutheran Study Bible. See p. xxii for a list of earlier examples. One could also mention the Bible that AF released just before TLSB. There is nothing un-Lutheran about publishing a Bible with notes.
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Charles Austin

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Re: God's regard
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2021, 11:06:23 AM »
Pastor Hannah:
The pastoral advantage to the reform of Palm/Passion Sunday is that the many who do not come on Good Friday will hear the "Greatest Story Ever Told" at least once on  Sunday.
Me:
Amen to that! Often on Palm Sunday, I either did not preach or gave very short sermon to allow for the reading of the entire passion story, often from Luke, which I believe reads best, but sometimes from the other gospels or a combination.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Just finished six great days in a beach house on North Carolinaís Outer Banks, with a bunch of friends and relatives. About 18 of us, and the young folks did all the cooking.