Author Topic: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?  (Read 2577 times)

Pr. Terry Culler

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2021, 08:08:01 PM »
Now we're being inundated with pro-LGBT, etc. propaganda...

The hardest part is watching the vocabulary of a culture change, and a minority of that culture serving as a kind of "thought police" to enforce the adoption of this new 'norm.'  We are surrendering a culture, it sometimes feels, without much of a struggle, accepting the changes and alterations as normal because the are packaged in a way as to make it all sound noble and right and proper, and as common as things were before the insisted change.

We are, as Carl Trueman has recently written, at the end of 2 centuries of slow but certain erosion of Western Christian culture.  It has collapsed so rapidly because the foundation has been eaten away by intellectual termites who hate love freedom but hate liberty and who want salvation without a real God.  If there is no such thing as Truth that is objective and applicable to all people, there is no way any cultural could possibly survive.  My true prayer is that we are finally in the last days and this will all soon be over. Maranatha. 
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2021, 08:18:59 PM »
Now we're being inundated with pro-LGBT, etc. propaganda...

The hardest part is watching the vocabulary of a culture change, and a minority of that culture serving as a kind of "thought police" to enforce the adoption of this new 'norm.'  We are surrendering a culture, it sometimes feels, without much of a struggle, accepting the changes and alterations as normal because the are packaged in a way as to make it all sound noble and right and proper, and as common as things were before the insisted change.

We are, as Carl Trueman has recently written, at the end of 2 centuries of slow but certain erosion of Western Christian culture.  It has collapsed so rapidly because the foundation has been eaten away by intellectual termites who hate love freedom but hate liberty and who want salvation without a real God.  If there is no such thing as Truth that is objective and applicable to all people, there is no way any cultural could possibly survive.  My true prayer is that we are finally in the last days and this will all soon be over. Maranatha.

Truth, in our era, is relative and malleable.  Yet, at the same time, truth can take on an absolute sense when it is identified with the individual.  If it is true for me, then it must be true for you.  Or if you do not like my idea of true, you must at least respect my commitment to it and accommodate that commitment in how you act and how you speak.  But truth thus defined is always a 'moving target.'  Like the Party workers in 1984 we are constantly rewriting history and definitions to fit the new ideas of true.  Christians get pulled into this when they begin to lose a sense of the absoluteness of truth in their scriptures (which we have debated here before).  When that happens we change the truth of the scriptures to fit the prevailing truth of the culture.  And in the process we become disoriented and lost.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Michael Slusser

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2021, 10:44:59 AM »
The next generations that follow us are in for more and more of this, and not only for culture-war reasons. The chemistry is leading toward more confusion, as our bodies assimilate more and more "endocrine disruptors."
Quote
Reproduction

Some classes of EDCs (DDT, BPA, phthalates, PCBs, others) can affect reproductive health by mimicking or blocking the effects of male and female sex hormones

Growth and development

High exposures to EDCs during gestation can lead to low-birth weight
Altered development
Disrupted sexual development
Weakened immune system
https://www.hormone.org/your-health-and-hormones/endocrine-disrupting-chemicals-edcs

Children growing up now are dealing with more troubling issues experiencing their bodies than old guys like me. Compassion and withholding of judgment are becoming more and more necessary.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
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Michael_Rothaar

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2021, 04:41:11 PM »
One of the more interesting things is how the number of LGBT people has grown among Generation Z. First, the percent of the population that identifies as LGBT has grown two full percentage points in the last eight years (3.5% to 5.6%). Almost all of that growth is attributable to Gen Z of which an incredible 15.6% identify as LBGT (9% of Millennials also identify as LGBT, as opposed to 3% and less for Gen X and older).

The rate of growth is an astonishing SIXTY percent.

5.6 - 3.5 = 2.1

(2.1/3.5) * 100 = 60

At that rate, eight years from now 8.96 % of the population will so identify.

Kyrie eleison.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/01/the-explosion-in-queer-sexuality-among-kids-is-not-a-natural-trend/

Worth noting as commentary on the recent Gallup report cited by JEButler. Let's hope for a "regression to the mean" when these kids get a bit older. There's sure no hope for the church to have much influence on them!
Mike Rothaar
Retired from roster of active ELCA pastors 01 Jul 2012.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2021, 05:21:55 PM »
Pastor Rothaar writes:
There's sure no hope for the church to have much influence on them!
I ask:
Really? Why?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Charles Austin

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2021, 05:02:25 AM »
Evangelical agency to provide adoption for gay parents:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/us/bethany-adoption-agency-lgbtq.html
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Michael_Rothaar

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2021, 04:10:22 PM »
Pastor Rothaar writes:
There's sure no hope for the church to have much influence on them!
I ask:
Really? Why?



Top of my head:
  • Declining membership, especially with respect to child-rearing young adults.
  • Loss of authoritative status in society.
  • Regarded by many -- perhaps a majority in the U.S. -- as sexually repressive or sexually exploitative or both.
  • Timidity by clergy to engage in discussion on controversial topics, for fear of alienating current members.
  • For mainline Protestants (including ELCA): lack of institutional support for traditional position in the culture wars.

Shorter answer: no hope for the church to have influence on opinions about human sexuality because nobody's asking.
And to anticipate: OK, maybe not "nobody."
Mike Rothaar
Retired from roster of active ELCA pastors 01 Jul 2012.
Mind and Spirit still working.

Charles Austin

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2021, 06:41:30 PM »
The church has had, and continues to have quite a lot to say and, I dare say, a good bit of influence on matters of sexuality in the United States today. Itís just that some people donít care for the direction of that influence.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

RDPreus

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2021, 07:03:36 PM »
ďWe will now offer services with the love and compassion of Jesus to the many types of families who exist in our world today,Ē Mr. Palusky wrote.  He speaks for Bethany Christian Services.  What a treacherous act by people claiming to be evangelical Christians!  They lie about Jesus when they say this his love and compassion would place a helpless child under the parental authority of homosexuals who publicly defy Godís law concerning marriage.  They donít want to be shut down by the civil authorities.  It has nothing to do with the love and compassion of Jesus and they know it. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2021, 08:52:00 PM »
So what do you finally accuse them of, Pastor Preus? Hypocrisy? Heresy? Immorality?
Give us a scale.
You say they cannot possibly be showing the love of Jesus. So on which charge - as judge and jury- do you convict them?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

RDPreus

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2021, 11:52:23 AM »
So what do you finally accuse them of, Pastor Preus? Hypocrisy? Heresy? Immorality?
Give us a scale.
You say they cannot possibly be showing the love of Jesus. So on which charge - as judge and jury- do you convict them?

God's Word teaches us that homosexuality is an abomination that falls under the wrath of God.  Read Romans 1:18-27.  For a nominally "Christian" organization to entrust to homosexual couples the care of little children is an offense against God and the children.  I do not convict them of anything.  God's Word condemns them.  God will punish them because He loves the little children.

Charles Austin

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2021, 12:59:23 PM »
But you, Pastor Preus, and a few others here seem to relish the chance to issue - in full cry - in your own voice this "wrath of God." It is an arrogant dodge for you to say "I'm just saying what God says he will do." God will do what God will do and - surprise to you, perhaps - God is more inclined to be merciful than judgmental. Your words dismiss and condemn the faith, prayers, study and spirit of millions of your fellow Christians. Oops, sorry, I almost forgot that for you those who would place an adopted child in the home of a same-gender couple are - along with those two people - not Christians, or are semi-Christians who will, again in your declaration, be punished by God. What do you think that punishment will be? Death? Hell? Boils? Cancer? I suppose it doesn't matter, so long as it is punishment.
But I have let myself take the turn in this exchange despite the sign that says "Dead End."
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2021, 01:51:38 PM »
But you, Pastor Preus, and a few others here seem to relish the chance to issue - in full cry - in your own voice this "wrath of God." It is an arrogant dodge for you to say "I'm just saying what God says he will do." God will do what God will do and - surprise to you, perhaps - God is more inclined to be merciful than judgmental. Your words dismiss and condemn the faith, prayers, study and spirit of millions of your fellow Christians. Oops, sorry, I almost forgot that for you those who would place an adopted child in the home of a same-gender couple are - along with those two people - not Christians, or are semi-Christians who will, again in your declaration, be punished by God. What do you think that punishment will be? Death? Hell? Boils? Cancer? I suppose it doesn't matter, so long as it is punishment.
But I have let myself take the turn in this exchange despite the sign that says "Dead End."
If you would quit reading into various posts what people "seem to relish" you might interact better. You have condemned Pr. Preus for being arrogant and judgmental. He has condemned Christian groups that do gay adoptions. At least Pr. Preus is not condemning anyone for anything he merely inferred about them.

RDPreus

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2021, 01:58:03 PM »
"Your words dismiss and condemn the faith, prayers, study and spirit of millions of your fellow Christians."

On the one side is "the faith, prayers, study and spirit of millions of your fellow Christians."  On the other side is God's Word.  The God who punishes is also the God who forgives.  Where sin abounds grace abounds much more.  I believe in the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ who is gracious to sinners for Christ's sake.  That his wrath is being revealed from heaven against homosexuals (Romans 1:18-27) and all others who suppress the truth in unrighteousness does not mean that he is not gracious for Christ's sake.  He is gracious to all sinners: baby-killers, adulterers, greedy idolaters, homosexuals, rapists, thieves, and liars.  Apart from Christ his wrath abides.  In Christ he is gracious.  When men of the cloth teach homosexuals that they need not repent of their homosexuality but may marry members of the same sex and adopt children (as if their perversion is not a sin) these men consign those unrepentant homosexuals to hell.  Now you can accuse me of relishing the wrath of God, but it is you, not I, who would leave homosexuals under the wrath of God.  I would call them to repent of their sin of homosexuality and trust in the blood and righteousness of Jesus and be saved.

jebutler

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2021, 02:35:49 PM »
But you, Pastor Preus, and a few others here seem to relish the chance to issue - in full cry - in your own voice this "wrath of God." It is an arrogant dodge for you to say "I'm just saying what God says he will do." God will do what God will do and - surprise to you, perhaps - God is more inclined to be merciful than judgmental. Your words dismiss and condemn the faith, prayers, study and spirit of millions of your fellow Christians. Oops, sorry, I almost forgot that for you those who would place an adopted child in the home of a same-gender couple are - along with those two people - not Christians, or are semi-Christians who will, again in your declaration, be punished by God. What do you think that punishment will be? Death? Hell? Boils? Cancer? I suppose it doesn't matter, so long as it is punishment.
But I have let myself take the turn in this exchange despite the sign that says "Dead End."

I find it interesting that Rolf twice points to Scripture...and you don't. The phrase "wrath of God" which you claim is Rolf's voice (even underlining for emphasis) is exactly what Paul says in Romans, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress the truth" (1:18 nrsv). If you are going to argue his point--and accuse him of "relishing" in condemnation--then you could at least try arguing Scripture. But you seem to go out of your way to avoid it and simply give "God loves everyone" generalities.

As to this particular case, Bethany Christian Services says that it will now, "offer services with the love and compassion of Jesus to the many types of families who exist in our world today." First, I have to ask how they are offering these services "with the love and compassion of Jesus." They are offering adoptions; I doubt there is anything different in their approach than in any other. Other than the fact that Lutheran Social Services of New England had "Lutheran" in their name,* there wasn't anything particularly Lutheran--or even vaguely Christian--about my adoption experience. I could have gone to the local Dept. of Children and Families office and would have received the exact same services.

Second, will they *really* "now offer services...to the many types of families who exist in our world today"? I just read an article in the New York Post about a gay throuple California. They have two children via a surrogate and all three men have their name listed as fathers. Would BCS be willing offer services to them? What about a polygamous Mormon? What about a four person group marriage? The problem is that once you open the door to "the many types of families" which ones do you exclude?

*I use the word "had" quite intentionally. They no longer refer to themselves as Lutheran in any sense. Now it is "Ascentria" whatever that means.
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).