Author Topic: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?  (Read 2578 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« on: February 27, 2021, 12:38:52 PM »
The following quote is part of a longer article (linked below) called: "Gender: When the body and brain disagree." It begins with an example about Zoë. In our discussions about sex and gender, we should try to come to a common understanding of what the terms mean. As I've understood it, and as this paragraphs state: sex is about genitalia; gender is about "cultural accepted norms," gender identity takes place in the brain: "our inner sense of who we are."

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/gender-when-body-and-brain-disagree#:~:text=Gender%20is%20based%20on%20culturally,how%20they%20dress%20or%20behave.

Sex. Gender. What's the difference?

Although many people use the terms sex and gender interchangeably, they mean quite different things. Indeed, sex and gender don’t necessarily agree. That’s how it is in Zoë’s case.

Gender is based on culturally accepted norms — attitudes or behaviors that are typical for males or females. Gender identity has to do instead with our inner sense of who we are. People often express their gender identity by how they dress or behave.

Meanwhile, sex is determined at conception by the genes each of us inherits from mom and dad. It may become visible by ultrasound several months into pregnancy.Highly magnified image of X and Y chromosomes — pair # 23 — from a human male. When both chromosomes are X’s, a child will be female. If a child inherits a Y from dad as one of those chromosomes, he will be born a male. But in transgender people, their genetics and brain-based identity will not match. Chromosomes hold genes. They’re the tiny pieces of DNA that tell our cells what to do. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes. One pair consists of sex chromosomes . They come in two forms: X’s and Y’s. Women have two X’s. So when they share half of each pair of chromosomes with their offspring, the sex chromosome they offer will always be an X. Men have an X and a Y. So if dad shares an X chromosome with his child, it will make a girl (XX). If he shares a Y chromosome, the child will be male (XY). Or at least, that’s usually the case. When it comes to sex, researchers have learned that biology can be more complicated than just ‘boy’ or ‘girl.’ For instance, some people carry two X chromosomes mixed with a fragment of a Y chromosome. These people develop into what look to be males. That happens even though the presence of two X chromosomes means that they are female, at least biologically.

It gets even more complicated when gender identity enters the picture. For more than 99 percent of the world’s population, gender identity and biological sex will agree. Such a person is called cisgender. (The Latin prefix cis- means “on the same side.”) But a small share of people experiences a mismatch between sex and gender.

Some of these people grow up feeling like they aren’t the gender the rest of the world — including their parents and doctors — sees them as. This experience is called transgender. The term transgender is distinct from one’s sexual orientation, meaning whether a person is attracted to males or females.

Transgender individuals may outwardly appear male or female. But for reasons that are still unclear, they feel like — and, eventually report knowing themselves to be — the opposite gender. Some may even identify a little bit with both genders.

Untangling sex and gender

During pregnancy, genetic factors influence the development of the embryo as it grows into a fetus. An XX person (girl) usually develops ovaries. An XY person (boy) will usually develop testes. In individuals with XY chromosomes, there is a gene on the arm of the Y chromosome, called SRY. This gene signals the development of testes. When an SRY is not present, an ovary will develop. That will then lead to development of the female anatomy. If testes develop, they will go on to produce the male hormone called testosterone. This hormone instructs the body to make male genitals. It also leads to the development of bigger bones, a brain structure unique to males and other male physical characteristics.

Our sense of gender comes from what our brains tell us. But no one knows what part of the brain does this. It also remains unclear why that identity in transgender people does not match their biological sex.

The basic biology behind how chromosomes and genes signal the body to take on a female or male anatomy has been known for a long time. Still, researchers are learning a great deal about how much more complex this sex determination is than they had originally thought. And researchers know far less about what drives gender. “To my knowledge, no studies have conclusively demonstrated where our sense of gender identity comes from,” says Kristina Olson. She works at the University of Washington in Seattle.

As a developmental psychologist, Olson studies how people develop and change as they grow from infancy into adulthood. Some people have speculated that genes, the environment or hormone levels might play a role in influencing gender, Olson says. In fact, she says, “I know of no study showing one, the other or which combination makes gender.”

For thousands of years, careful observers — namely, parents — have noticed that children at an early stage begin to strongly express a preference for certain toys, colors and clothing. Around this same early age, children also begin to express their gender identity.

“What we know from typical gender development is that kids generally know and can say whether they’re a boy or a girl around age 2 or 3,” says Olson.

By that same age, many transgender children also will express their gender identity. But in their case, it will differ from the expected, Olson says. “Most people find it shocking that a transgender kid could ‘know’ that they are or are not a particular gender so early,” she says. However, Olson’s research tells her that it makes complete sense that gender identity can show up at the same age in transgender and cisgender children.
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2021, 02:20:14 PM »
"culturally accepted norms"

Where do we start with this?

First of all, which "culture"?  It appears that we have several now.  And what do we do when we have multiple 'cultures' that are in opposition to each other?

Secondly, we used to have some understanding of normal and balanced, psychologically speaking. What is "ordered" and what is "disordered"? When I went to college I believe that DSM III was in use.  Transgenderism was considered a "gender identity disorder." It was that way in DSM IV as well. Disorder was used up through 2013.  In DSM 5 it is called "gender dysphoria." 

Now I know that it will seem that I am overreacting to some, but now that many behaviors, including pedophilia, is considered normal and acceptable in some areas, why should any identity or any behavior with regard to sex be stigmatized?  And if a person wants to think they are an animal (clinical lycanthropy), why should that be seen as "disordered"?  In fact, they should be accepted in society within the workplace and elsewhere as if normal. 

If the most basic of identities - gender - is now fluid with regard to definition, why should any other identifying description be seen with any more specificity? 

But again, we come back to that word "culture."  Whose culture gets to define these things? 
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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2021, 02:46:25 PM »
People have sex.
Words have gender.
Problem solved.
Next!

Jeremy

(Yes, it's more complicated than that, which is why it's called gender dysphoria.)

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2021, 03:06:48 PM »
The following quote is part of a longer article (linked below) called: "Gender: When the body and brain disagree."
... As I've understood it, and as this paragraphs state: sex is about genitalia; gender is about "cultural accepted norms," gender identity takes place in the brain: "our inner sense of who we are."

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/gender-when-body-and-brain-disagree#:~:text=Gender%20is%20based%20on%20culturally,how%20they%20dress%20or%20behave.

 For more than 99 percent of the world’s population, gender identity and biological sex will agree. Such a person is called cisgender. (The Latin prefix cis- means “on the same side.”) But a small share of people experiences a mismatch between sex and gender.

Some of these people grow up feeling like they aren’t the gender the rest of the world — including their parents and doctors — sees them as. This experience is called transgender. The term transgender is distinct from one’s sexual orientation, meaning whether a person is attracted to males or females.


In addition to the fair criticism offered by Pastor Engebretson, I'd call attention to the statement in Brian's article that folks with such an affliction are well under 1% of all the folks there are. But from currently popular media treatment, one would be pardoned for believing the number to be much, much higher. Just as surveys of adolescents reveal their belief that the incidence of homosexuality in the general population is a substantial multiple of its actual occurence. This is the result of control of the flow of information.

Most have seen this:

'Ryan Anderson's When Harry Became Sally was removed from Amazon's cyber shelves [February 21], three years after the controversial best-seller was published on February 20, 2018.

"In 2018, the book hit No. 1 on two of Amazon's best-seller list before it was even released, but sparked controversy for arguing that society's growing acceptance of transgender people stems more from ideology than science."

I'm not sure why the gay movement has attached itself to this new ideology with so much angry and fervent determination. Is it as simple as continuing to be political relevant after "gay rights" have beeen achieved, or the need for their organizations to have causes to generate contributions? In any case, it now seems that in practice, "transgender" simply means a person who likes pretending they're the opposite sex, and whose pretense is demanded by advocates to be universally recognized as fact. And, if House Democrats have their way, as law.
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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2021, 04:34:51 PM »
The following quote is part of a longer article (linked below) called: "Gender: When the body and brain disagree."
... As I've understood it, and as this paragraphs state: sex is about genitalia; gender is about "cultural accepted norms," gender identity takes place in the brain: "our inner sense of who we are."

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/gender-when-body-and-brain-disagree#:~:text=Gender%20is%20based%20on%20culturally,how%20they%20dress%20or%20behave.

 For more than 99 percent of the world’s population, gender identity and biological sex will agree. Such a person is called cisgender. (The Latin prefix cis- means “on the same side.”) But a small share of people experiences a mismatch between sex and gender.

Some of these people grow up feeling like they aren’t the gender the rest of the world — including their parents and doctors — sees them as. This experience is called transgender. The term transgender is distinct from one’s sexual orientation, meaning whether a person is attracted to males or females.


In addition to the fair criticism offered by Pastor Engebretson, I'd call attention to the statement in Brian's article that folks with such an affliction are well under 1% of all the folks there are. But from currently popular media treatment, one would be pardoned for believing the number to be much, much higher. Just as surveys of adolescents reveal their belief that the incidence of homosexuality in the general population is a substantial multiple of its actual occurence. This is the result of control of the flow of information.

Most have seen this:

'Ryan Anderson's When Harry Became Sally was removed from Amazon's cyber shelves [February 21], three years after the controversial best-seller was published on February 20, 2018.

"In 2018, the book hit No. 1 on two of Amazon's best-seller list before it was even released, but sparked controversy for arguing that society's growing acceptance of transgender people stems more from ideology than science."

I'm not sure why the gay movement has attached itself to this new ideology with so much angry and fervent determination. Is it as simple as continuing to be political relevant after "gay rights" have beeen achieved, or the need for their organizations to have causes to generate contributions? In any case, it now seems that in practice, "transgender" simply means a person who likes pretending they're the opposite sex, and whose pretense is demanded by advocates to be universally recognized as fact. And, if House Democrats have their way, as law.

One of the more interesting things is how the number of LGBT people has grown among Generation Z. First, the percent of the population that identifies as LGBT has grown two full percentage points in the last eight years (3.5% to 5.6%). Almost all of that growth is attributable to Gen Z of which an incredible 15.6% identify as LBGT (9% of Millennials also identify as LGBT, as opposed to 3% and less for Gen X and older).

Although only about 0.2% of the Gen Z and older LGBT population identify as trans, 1.2% of Millennial LBGT so identify and 1.8% of Gen Z. So while it's still a small group overall, it is growing. Part of that growth is that they are over-represented in news and popular media. https://news.gallup.com/poll/329708/lgbt-identification-rises-latest-estimate.aspx
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2021, 07:41:19 PM »
One of the more interesting things is how the number of LGBT people has grown among Generation Z. First, the percent of the population that identifies as LGBT has grown two full percentage points in the last eight years (3.5% to 5.6%). Almost all of that growth is attributable to Gen Z of which an incredible 15.6% identify as LBGT (9% of Millennials also identify as LGBT, as opposed to 3% and less for Gen X and older).

The rate of growth is an astonishing SIXTY percent.

5.6 - 3.5 = 2.1

(2.1/3.5) * 100 = 60

At that rate, eight years from now 8.96 % of the population will so identify.

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2021, 06:35:42 AM »
The following quote is part of a longer article (linked below) called: "Gender: When the body and brain disagree."
... As I've understood it, and as this paragraphs state: sex is about genitalia; gender is about "cultural accepted norms," gender identity takes place in the brain: "our inner sense of who we are."

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/gender-when-body-and-brain-disagree#:~:text=Gender%20is%20based%20on%20culturally,how%20they%20dress%20or%20behave.

 For more than 99 percent of the world’s population, gender identity and biological sex will agree. Such a person is called cisgender. (The Latin prefix cis- means “on the same side.”) But a small share of people experiences a mismatch between sex and gender.

Some of these people grow up feeling like they aren’t the gender the rest of the world — including their parents and doctors — sees them as. This experience is called transgender. The term transgender is distinct from one’s sexual orientation, meaning whether a person is attracted to males or females.


In addition to the fair criticism offered by Pastor Engebretson, I'd call attention to the statement in Brian's article that folks with such an affliction are well under 1% of all the folks there are. But from currently popular media treatment, one would be pardoned for believing the number to be much, much higher. Just as surveys of adolescents reveal their belief that the incidence of homosexuality in the general population is a substantial multiple of its actual occurence. This is the result of control of the flow of information.

Most have seen this:

'Ryan Anderson's When Harry Became Sally was removed from Amazon's cyber shelves [February 21], three years after the controversial best-seller was published on February 20, 2018.

"In 2018, the book hit No. 1 on two of Amazon's best-seller list before it was even released, but sparked controversy for arguing that society's growing acceptance of transgender people stems more from ideology than science."

I'm not sure why the gay movement has attached itself to this new ideology with so much angry and fervent determination. Is it as simple as continuing to be political relevant after "gay rights" have beeen achieved, or the need for their organizations to have causes to generate contributions? In any case, it now seems that in practice, "transgender" simply means a person who likes pretending they're the opposite sex, and whose pretense is demanded by advocates to be universally recognized as fact. And, if House Democrats have their way, as law.

One of the more interesting things is how the number of LGBT people has grown among Generation Z. First, the percent of the population that identifies as LGBT has grown two full percentage points in the last eight years (3.5% to 5.6%). Almost all of that growth is attributable to Gen Z of which an incredible 15.6% identify as LBGT (9% of Millennials also identify as LGBT, as opposed to 3% and less for Gen X and older).

Although only about 0.2% of the Gen Z and older LGBT population identify as trans, 1.2% of Millennial LBGT so identify and 1.8% of Gen Z. So while it's still a small group overall, it is growing. Part of that growth is that they are over-represented in news and popular media. https://news.gallup.com/poll/329708/lgbt-identification-rises-latest-estimate.aspx

That would not be nearly as alarming if we focused only on what Dave Chapelle calls the "Ls, Bs and Gs."  It is entirely understandable that people who were shunned by society would have their numbers increase by societal acceptance and, let's be honest, celebration.  This could occur simply because so few of them would admit to being gay 30-40 years ago.  But it is the Ts that are utterly terrifying, because just 10 years ago, transgendered people were overwhelmingly biological males who wished to be female, and had exhibited those traits since very early childhood, and were a tiny fraction of the population.  Now, over 50% of transgendered people are teenage and young adult girls who want to be male, and the number is exploding.  Abigail Shrier, rightly I think, identifies this as a "social contagion" like cutting or repressed memories.  More, she makes the case it is an intentionally propagated social contagion, in that online activists and college "friends" target children, try to convince them their parents are toxic in their lives, and therefore cut off the support network that would ordinarily be there to help.  If your kid cuts themselves, you are encouraged to find them help.  If your kid thinks she's a dude, literally anything you say to stop the train from rolling down the tracks is interpreted as you being the problem.

Read this.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-your-daughter-defies-biology-11546804848

"Brie Jontry, a spokeswoman for Fourth Wave Now, an international support network for these families, is one of the two mothers who spoke on the record. She tells me ROGD teens often come from politically progressive families. Many of the mothers I spoke with say they enthusiastically supported same-sex marriage long before it was legal anywhere. Some of them describe welcoming the news when their daughters came out as lesbians. But when their daughters suddenly decided that they were actually men and started clamoring for hormones and surgery, the mothers begged them to reconsider, or at least slow down.

'If your kid went off and joined the Moonies, people would feel sorry for you, and they would understand that this is a bad thing and that your kid shouldn’t be in the Moonies,' one mother, a former leader of the pro-gay organization Pflag, said. 'With this, I can’t even tell anybody. I talk to my husband, that’s it.' The couple have faithfully covered their daughter’s tuition, health-care and cellphone bills—even though she refuses to speak to them.

Under the influence of testosterone and the spell of transgression, ROGD daughters grow churlish and aggressive. Under the banner of civil rights, they assume the moral high ground. Their mothers take cover behind pseudonyms. As ROGD daughters rage against the biology they hope to defy, their mothers bear its burden, evincing its maternal instinct—the stubborn refusal to abandon their young."


And then if you are so inclined, purchase the book.  It is absolutely horrifying.  I am thankful to be ahead of the curve on it, since my girls are a little younger than the age where this would be an issue, so I am able to speak to them about it and the dangers of online "mentors" whose aim is to drive a wedge between them and their parents who love them.  I personally know people who were not aware, not warned, and therefore had no way to stop the madness when it finally became obvious it had visited them.

This is why I do not take what Pastor Stoffregen posted to start this thread seriously.  The changing of "norms" is not only intentional, it is malignant.  It is designed to destroy the old norms.  It is not simply the natural arising of new understandings.  It is evil.  It is harmful.  And as the father of 3 girls, I will fight it to my last breath.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 06:40:39 AM by David Garner »
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2021, 12:42:19 PM »
"culturally accepted norms"

Where do we start with this?

First of all, which "culture"?  It appears that we have several now.  And what do we do when we have multiple 'cultures' that are in opposition to each other?

Secondly, we used to have some understanding of normal and balanced, psychologically speaking. What is "ordered" and what is "disordered"? When I went to college I believe that DSM III was in use.  Transgenderism was considered a "gender identity disorder." It was that way in DSM IV as well. Disorder was used up through 2013.  In DSM 5 it is called "gender dysphoria." 

Now I know that it will seem that I am overreacting to some, but now that many behaviors, including pedophilia, is considered normal and acceptable in some areas, why should any identity or any behavior with regard to sex be stigmatized?  And if a person wants to think they are an animal (clinical lycanthropy), why should that be seen as "disordered"?  In fact, they should be accepted in society within the workplace and elsewhere as if normal. 

If the most basic of identities - gender - is now fluid with regard to definition, why should any other identifying description be seen with any more specificity? 

But again, we come back to that word "culture."  Whose culture gets to define these things?


I think that we grew up in a culture where gender expectations were clearer. We had beliefs that big boys don't cry. There were few proper careers for women: teachers, nurses, secretaries, and most importantly, wife and mother. Parents didn't give dolls to sons (even while we expected them to grow up to be fathers,) but it was expected their daughters would play with dolls. When we talked about "who wears the pants in the family," we knew that it was the father because women always wore dresses. (I remember an elderly lady confessing to me one winter Sunday morning that that was the first time in her life that she had worn pants to church. It was just too cold to wear a dress.)


There was the expectation that the man would be the major wage-earner, so women were (and continue to be) paid less. The man's business would offer benefits, so, if the wife worked, she didn't need those benefits. A few cases where the wives had better paying jobs so the husband stayed home to take care of children and household chores was almost scandalous.


There was a time when it was thought the women couldn't play basketball like the men, so there were special rules for women's basketball: six on a team. Three stayed on half the court to play defense and three were on the other half and played offense.


Going back to even earlier generations, women were not allowed to vote. The general expectations (even back in biblical times) is that men were the public face of the family. Women might have some authority inside the house, but not in public. Even now, the percentage of females in the House (27% the highest in history) and Senate (24%) is far less than their percentage in the population (51%).
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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2021, 01:14:34 PM »

This is why I do not take what Pastor Stoffregen posted to start this thread seriously.  The changing of "norms" is not only intentional, it is malignant.  It is designed to destroy the old norms.  It is not simply the natural arising of new understandings.  It is evil.  It is harmful.  And as the father of 3 girls, I will fight it to my last breath.


One of the new "norms" is recognizing that gender identity is more than just xx or xy chromosomes. There are genetic/hormonal issues that can be the source of why the gender in the brain is different than in the bodies. We know that issues with conception and in the womb can cause people to be born differently than normal. (A list of common birth defects is here.) Another one an acquaintance was born with is sacral agenesis. His legs were amputated when he was five because they were unusable. He's now a motivational speaker.


We recognize that there are circumstances that create abnormalities in the womb; why not also for sexual orientation and gender identification? Just because we haven't pinpointed the cause(s) doesn't mean they don't exist.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2021, 01:58:09 PM »
We should be able to acknowledge and accept that since the fall, many things have become more complicated and do not work out the way they theoretically should. Sexuality and gender does not always line up as a simple ready of chromosomes might suggest. And at times some more extreme measures, such as hormonal treatments or sex reassignment therapy or surgery might be indicated. But even so, do we really need to buy into the whole program the encourages and recruits young people to convince them that this is what they need, locking them into sex reassignment before puberty (even using medications to delay puberty to assist in the process) interrupting what may well be a hiccough in the maturation process into a commitment to sex change? Must we also make provisions in the law that specifically disallows religious freedom. What about female athletes having to compete against biological males who are still biologically male but "identify" as female?
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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2021, 02:56:10 PM »

This is why I do not take what Pastor Stoffregen posted to start this thread seriously.  The changing of "norms" is not only intentional, it is malignant.  It is designed to destroy the old norms.  It is not simply the natural arising of new understandings.  It is evil.  It is harmful.  And as the father of 3 girls, I will fight it to my last breath.


One of the new "norms" is recognizing that gender identity is more than just xx or xy chromosomes. There are genetic/hormonal issues that can be the source of why the gender in the brain is different than in the bodies. We know that issues with conception and in the womb can cause people to be born differently than normal. (A list of common birth defects is here.) Another one an acquaintance was born with is sacral agenesis. His legs were amputated when he was five because they were unusable. He's now a motivational speaker.


We recognize that there are circumstances that create abnormalities in the womb; why not also for sexual orientation and gender identification? Just because we haven't pinpointed the cause(s) doesn't mean they don't exist.

"We." 

For what it's worth, I can accept exceptions, and I do.  We should be kind and compassionate to them.  But trying to make the exception the rule, and trying to say people with genetic defects exist, ergo, anyone who says they are the opposite of their biological sex is not only not deluded, but in fact it is cruel and mean to suggest otherwise, is insanity.  You know this.  I think you know it instinctively.  Most people do. 

So let's drop the pretense please and discuss the real issue -- there is a social contagion among teenage girls where they are encouraged actively by trans activists on the internet to "transition."  Just as we don't let teenagers drink alcohol recreationally or in most states have sex consensually, we should protect them from mutilation of their bodies whether they think it is necessary or not.

Adults can do as they wish, and they have always been able to.  I might think an adult is deluded too, but it is not up to me to manage their delusion.  You aren't discovering new scientific truths here.  You are simply jumping onto a cultural bandwagon without bothering to ask where it is headed.
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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2021, 02:57:44 PM »
What about female athletes having to compete against biological males who are still biologically male but "identify" as female?

This is the most misogynistic aspect of our society.  And the tolerant champions of women (self-styled) are 100% on board with it.  It is abusive and evil and it demeans and erases women.

But to hell with them.  They are in the way of "progress."
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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2021, 05:33:01 PM »
My niece (now early 20's) told me that there was a fad of lesbianism in her high school.  Girls were going out of their way to put this into peoples faces.  Most of that died away like many teen fads do  Now we're being inundated with pro-LGBT, etc. propaganda and it's not too surprising that we're seeing things like this.  My concern is the young people who do something stupid like having surgery or extensive hormone "therapy" whose end results we don't really understand.  I'm pretty sure that the percentage of people identifying as the alphabet folks will drop back to the less than 5% number that seems "normal".
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2021, 05:55:19 PM »
My niece (now early 20's) told me that there was a fad of lesbianism in her high school.  Girls were going out of their way to put this into peoples faces.  Most of that died away like many teen fads do  Now we're being inundated with pro-LGBT, etc. propaganda and it's not too surprising that we're seeing things like this.  My concern is the young people who do something stupid like having surgery or extensive hormone "therapy" whose end results we don't really understand.  I'm pretty sure that the percentage of people identifying as the alphabet folks will drop back to the less than 5% number that seems "normal".


Aetna has a list of requirements before one is qualified for "Gender Affirming Surgery." Generally, one must be at least 18 years of age. (There are exceptions.)
http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Sex. Gender. What's the Difference?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2021, 06:26:36 PM »
Now we're being inundated with pro-LGBT, etc. propaganda...

The hardest part is watching the vocabulary of a culture change, and a minority of that culture serving as a kind of "thought police" to enforce the adoption of this new 'norm.'  We are surrendering a culture, it sometimes feels, without much of a struggle, accepting the changes and alterations as normal because the are packaged in a way as to make it all sound noble and right and proper, and as common as things were before the insisted change.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI