Author Topic: 90% (!) Vote to Delay LCMS Convention Cycle  (Read 6789 times)

Rev Geminn

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Re: 90% (!) Vote to Delay LCMS Convention Cycle
« Reply #165 on: February 26, 2021, 03:41:47 PM »
I have some experience in this area having taught undergrads and adult ed students at CCNY these past seven years.  I would argue that the LCMS is too confining/suffocating for the religious education that can and should take place in the classroom.  My personal opinion borne out of these experiences is that the classroom should be approached with openness, letting the cards fall where they may.  The goal should not be to create Lutherans (though great if that results), but instead that they encounter the person and work of Jesus of Nazareth in an academic setting.   

Peace,
Scott+

Mark Brown

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Re: 90% (!) Vote to Delay LCMS Convention Cycle
« Reply #166 on: February 26, 2021, 03:57:29 PM »
When I said "we don't have to live this way" the CUS was the furthest thing from my mind.  We in the LCMS have such a bass ackwards focus that unfortunately I think is in our DNA from the magisterial reformation.  Alas, Luther was a college professor, not a bishop.  And so we will suck out the last remaining money and strength to build full libraries and keep two seminaries open: for 60 - 120 students at each.  The money is gone, so we have closed three Concordias, but to keep the institutions open we were willing to completely change their scope without ever acknowledging that scope change is mission change and openly stating what the new mission is. (Thank you jebutler!)  And when you get down to the parish church and school, we mercilessly turned them over to tuition (instead of common use), fundraising often from strangers (instead of parish responsibility) and eventual closure.  And we wonder why the "crown jewels" have no enrollment.  And right at the time it would be very nice to have an alternative to sexual indoctrination and grooming of 3rd graders, 2+2=5 because the party says so, and full NYS property taxes for zero real schooling, there is nothing.

But even that complaint really doesn't hit the core, as much as I would trade all the higher ed institutions possible for one solid Lutheran k-12 that my kids could attend.  The problem is our lack of faith. We could have the best catechesis available, and in places we do!  But if the real message is: go to school, get good grades, so you can get into a good college, so you can get a well paying job, so you can take part in the political wars, buy an iPhone, outsource your 1.2 kids to day care and be a nice sort, we might as well stop.  What we are teaching by our choices is much louder than the best catechesis.  A Christian Education is different than job training to be cog in the world machine.  We just aren't in that business anymore.  But we don't have to live that way.  We don't have to sell ourselves cheaply to the maw of the world.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: 90% (!) Vote to Delay LCMS Convention Cycle
« Reply #167 on: February 26, 2021, 04:20:07 PM »
Perhaps we could look at Roman Catholic universities that attract a number of non-Catholics. A Jewish friend of our son went to Creighton U., a Jesuit school. He consulted me on some of his biblical classes. "We got an 'A'." As far as I know, there was no attempt to convert him. (If there was, it failed.)


What is it about their 197 schools in the U.S. that keeps them going strong with a diverse enrollment?


(A list of Catholic universities and colleges can be found here.)
According to https://www.highereddive.com/news/how-many-colleges-and-universities-have-closed-since-2016/539379/ eight Catholic colleges have closed their doors just since 2016. "Going strong" may be too hopeful a term.

Peace,
Michael


Eight out of 197 (that's the count I got from Wiki, I didn't personally count all the lines in the link I posted,) is a much lower percentage than the closing of the Lutheran universities and colleges.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Rev Geminn

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Re: 90% (!) Vote to Delay LCMS Convention Cycle
« Reply #168 on: February 26, 2021, 10:22:47 PM »
When I said "we don't have to live this way" the CUS was the furthest thing from my mind.  We in the LCMS have such a bass ackwards focus that unfortunately I think is in our DNA from the magisterial reformation.  Alas, Luther was a college professor, not a bishop.  And so we will suck out the last remaining money and strength to build full libraries and keep two seminaries open: for 60 - 120 students at each.  The money is gone, so we have closed three Concordias, but to keep the institutions open we were willing to completely change their scope without ever acknowledging that scope change is mission change and openly stating what the new mission is. (Thank you jebutler!)  And when you get down to the parish church and school, we mercilessly turned them over to tuition (instead of common use), fundraising often from strangers (instead of parish responsibility) and eventual closure.  And we wonder why the "crown jewels" have no enrollment.  And right at the time it would be very nice to have an alternative to sexual indoctrination and grooming of 3rd graders, 2+2=5 because the party says so, and full NYS property taxes for zero real schooling, there is nothing.

But even that complaint really doesn't hit the core, as much as I would trade all the higher ed institutions possible for one solid Lutheran k-12 that my kids could attend.  The problem is our lack of faith. We could have the best catechesis available, and in places we do!  But if the real message is: go to school, get good grades, so you can get into a good college, so you can get a well paying job, so you can take part in the political wars, buy an iPhone, outsource your 1.2 kids to day care and be a nice sort, we might as well stop.  What we are teaching by our choices is much louder than the best catechesis.  A Christian Education is different than job training to be cog in the world machine.  We just aren't in that business anymore.  But we don't have to live that way.  We don't have to sell ourselves cheaply to the maw of the world.

Thanks for this, Mark. I must confess it was rather mind-numbing to me to read some of the earlier comments. I think part of it is my close proximity to Concordia-NY at present. To me, we just dont want to let it go, its always something that can be figured out or something that if we just got right this time wed be more effective. In many ways, Im so very tired of these kinds of conversations.

Peace,
Scott+

Mark Brown

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Re: 90% (!) Vote to Delay LCMS Convention Cycle
« Reply #169 on: February 27, 2021, 11:30:20 AM »
When I said "we don't have to live this way" the CUS was the furthest thing from my mind.  We in the LCMS have such a bass ackwards focus that unfortunately I think is in our DNA from the magisterial reformation.  Alas, Luther was a college professor, not a bishop.  And so we will suck out the last remaining money and strength to build full libraries and keep two seminaries open: for 60 - 120 students at each.  The money is gone, so we have closed three Concordias, but to keep the institutions open we were willing to completely change their scope without ever acknowledging that scope change is mission change and openly stating what the new mission is. (Thank you jebutler!)  And when you get down to the parish church and school, we mercilessly turned them over to tuition (instead of common use), fundraising often from strangers (instead of parish responsibility) and eventual closure.  And we wonder why the "crown jewels" have no enrollment.  And right at the time it would be very nice to have an alternative to sexual indoctrination and grooming of 3rd graders, 2+2=5 because the party says so, and full NYS property taxes for zero real schooling, there is nothing.

But even that complaint really doesn't hit the core, as much as I would trade all the higher ed institutions possible for one solid Lutheran k-12 that my kids could attend.  The problem is our lack of faith. We could have the best catechesis available, and in places we do!  But if the real message is: go to school, get good grades, so you can get into a good college, so you can get a well paying job, so you can take part in the political wars, buy an iPhone, outsource your 1.2 kids to day care and be a nice sort, we might as well stop.  What we are teaching by our choices is much louder than the best catechesis.  A Christian Education is different than job training to be cog in the world machine.  We just aren't in that business anymore.  But we don't have to live that way.  We don't have to sell ourselves cheaply to the maw of the world.

Thanks for this, Mark. I must confess it was rather mind-numbing to me to read some of the earlier comments. I think part of it is my close proximity to Concordia-NY at present. To me, we just dont want to let it go, its always something that can be figured out or something that if we just got right this time wed be more effective. In many ways, Im so very tired of these kinds of conversations.

Peace,
Scott+

Scott, I'm with you.  I'm at the the Luke 9:60 stage.