Author Topic: LifeSiteNews and Project Veritas  (Read 5039 times)

Matt Hummel

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2021, 09:33:18 AM »
I take no real pleasure in saying this, but will point out that amongst those involved with Respect Life work for dioceses and similar institutions, one of these organizations was referred to regularly as Lie Site News given that they were at times economical with the truth. And I saw this for a fact. A portion of my time was dedicated to stamping out brush fires caused by their “inaccuracies.”

YMMV
Matt Hummel


“The chief purpose of life, for any of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien

David Garner

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2021, 09:37:59 AM »
David Garner writes:
Are you suggesting YouTube and Twitter are publishers?

I comment:
   Whatever they are, they are "things" owned by their owners. You can't force a store to sell products it does not want to sell. You cannot - except under very unusual circumstances - force a factory to produce goods the owners do not want to produce. You cannot force a restaurant to have certain things on its menu.
   Maybe technology laws need to be developed, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps we should be concerned about the lies and incitements published by Breitbart and other, often obscure ultra-right-wing media.
   But the real deal is that the two organizations mentioned upstream have not been "silenced." They have their own publications; they have their websites; they have several other avenues of "publication" open to them.
   And I would contend that so long as Fox and its kits, Limbaugh and the Rush wannabees, Savage, the Washington Times, etc. etc. keep on keeping on, it's hard to make a case that "progressives" control the media.
    I thought you "conservatives" were in favor of free-market capitalism.

We are.  We are also in favor of a level and fair playing field, which is a hallmark of free-market capitalism, that is, that the market is truly free.  That's why we oppose such things as monopolies, and are in favor of things like anti-trust laws.

Of course, those were hallmarks of the "progressive" movement too, back when "progressive" meant something other than "destruction of the nuclear family via ever-expanding definitions of victimhood."

Besides, you were the one wanting Jack Phillips' business to be shut down, so maybe you should consider sitting this one out.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

D. Engebretson

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2021, 09:45:57 AM »
And I would contend that so long as Fox... keep on keeping on...

Personally, I am thankful for FOX.  I watch ABC Good Morning America in the morning, but also balance it out with a switch to the FOX channel.  I also watch FOX in the evening.  Without that network there would be only one narrative, one version of the day's story.  Occasionally I flip around to CNN and MSNBC, just to see what they are reporting on, and the differences are astounding between them and FOX, which, of course is no surprise. For example, I wonder if the other large networks will cover the breaking story of Gov. Cuomo and the reported stats on COVID in NYC. I am not a conspiracy theorists or right wing radical, but I do want more than one side of an issue. Truth is not the sole property of the mainstream media outlets such as ABC, NBC, et. al. I am astute enough to be discerning, to check more than one source. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

David Garner

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2021, 09:48:15 AM »
And I would contend that so long as Fox... keep on keeping on...

Personally, I am thankful for FOX.  I watch ABC Good Morning America in the morning, but also balance it out with a switch to the FOX channel.  I also watch FOX in the evening.  Without that network there would be only one narrative, one version of the day's story.  Occasionally I flip around to CNN and MSNBC, just to see what they are reporting on, and the differences are astounding between them and FOX, which, of course is no surprise. For example, I wonder if the other large networks will cover the breaking story of Gov. Cuomo and the reported stats on COVID in NYC. I am not a conspiracy theorists or right wing radical, but I do want more than one side of an issue. Truth is not the sole property of the mainstream media outlets such as ABC, NBC, et. al. I am astute enough to be discerning, to check more than one source.

Erick Erickson wrote today about the dangers of this one-sided, unidirectional messaging:

"Those on the left may think themselves more civil, more tolerant, free of bigotry, etc., but they aren’t. Their cultural antagonism to others is going to end badly for all of us. The Woke waging a jihad against every aspect of American culture they deem racist will provoke an angry response. The only major difference at this point between the Woke and the jihadists who murdered the Charlie Hebdo employees is, in fact, murder. Draw a cartoon that offends the Woke and you won’t die, but you may never work again and have your life destroyed with no possibility of redemption — or only redemption if you convert to Wokeness.

On Election Day, Donald Trump won the votes of 74 million people and came within 43,000 votes of holding on to the White House. The disproportionate power of the left to shape and govern cancel culture will push more people right. The right will get power back.

I don’t think the left understands or recognizes that it is contributing to a destabilizing situation that will ultimately lead to violence if it is not stopped. Friends of mine on the right — grounded, reasonable, and optimistic — are increasingly radicalizing and pessimistic. The left’s constant push left and demands we all follow will push many to the point of deciding it is time we all go our separate ways and that will end badly for all of us."

https://ewerickson.substack.com/p/disproportionality-leads-to-violence?r=3pk71&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=copy

He's right.  At some level, the right simply wants to be left alone and fed from the same spoon.  Continuing to escalate attacks against what the left perceives as wrong-think will only end badly.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

jebutler

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2021, 10:04:15 AM »
David Garner writes:
Are you suggesting YouTube and Twitter are publishers?

I comment:
   Whatever they are, they are "things" owned by their owners. You can't force a store to sell products it does not want to sell. You cannot - except under very unusual circumstances - force a factory to produce goods the owners do not want to produce. You cannot force a restaurant to have certain things on its menu.
   Maybe technology laws need to be developed, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps we should be concerned about the lies and incitements published by Breitbart and other, often obscure ultra-right-wing media.
   But the real deal is that the two organizations mentioned upstream have not been "silenced." They have their own publications; they have their websites; they have several other avenues of "publication" open to them.
   And I would contend that so long as Fox and its kits, Limbaugh and the Rush wannabees, Savage, the Washington Times, etc. etc. keep on keeping on, it's hard to make a case that "progressives" control the media.
    I thought you "conservatives" were in favor of free-market capitalism.

Of course we are all for free-market capitalism. And there was a free market: Parler began to compete with Twitter. Indeed, millions moved to the new platform, until Amazon Web Services deplatformed them. And AWS is pretty much the server service these days. Oh yeah, when new things come on line, the bigger services buy them out. Which is why I believe Big Tech needs to be broken up--in order to create competition.

The other issue is simply consistent standards. But Twitter, like many other media companies, is content to play Calvinball. Project Veritas was removed for violating private information standards. Fair enough. But NYT reporter Nikole Hannah-Jones violated those same standards in tweeting out a reporter's cell phone number...which is private information. Why hasn't she been suspended?

BTW, technology laws do not need to be developed; they already exist. What you do not seem to understand is that there is a difference between Twitter and Breitbart, Fox News, and the other things you cite. Breitbart, etc. all admit what they are: publishers. Therefore, they are held to the same legal standards as other media companies, e.g. they can be sued for libel and slander.

Twitter is different. It is not a publisher; it is a platform. It claims protection under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, i.e. it is not responsible for what users tweet, therefore it cannot be sued if someone uses the platform to make a libelous statement. However, if Twitter is going to start arguing that it can control what users tweet, then it is a publisher and does not come under Section 230.
The truth we preach is not an abstract thing. The truth is a Person. The goodness we preach is not an ideal quality. The goodness is Someone who is good. The love we preach is God himself in Christ. --H. Grady Davis

peter_speckhard

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2021, 10:10:16 AM »
David Garner writes:
Are you suggesting YouTube and Twitter are publishers?

I comment:
   Whatever they are, they are "things" owned by their owners. You can't force a store to sell products it does not want to sell. You cannot - except under very unusual circumstances - force a factory to produce goods the owners do not want to produce. You cannot force a restaurant to have certain things on its menu.
   
What if YouTube took down all wedding videos of gay weddings but left up everyone else's wedding videos? Would you still have that, "Hey, it is what it is, and it is theirs, so they can whatever they want with it" attitude?

Steven W Bohler

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2021, 10:12:30 AM »
David Garner writes:
Are you suggesting YouTube and Twitter are publishers?

I comment:
   Whatever they are, they are "things" owned by their owners. You can't force a store to sell products it does not want to sell. You cannot - except under very unusual circumstances - force a factory to produce goods the owners do not want to produce. You cannot force a restaurant to have certain things on its menu.
   Maybe technology laws need to be developed, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps we should be concerned about the lies and incitements published by Breitbart and other, often obscure ultra-right-wing media.
   But the real deal is that the two organizations mentioned upstream have not been "silenced." They have their own publications; they have their websites; they have several other avenues of "publication" open to them.
   And I would contend that so long as Fox and its kits, Limbaugh and the Rush wannabees, Savage, the Washington Times, etc. etc. keep on keeping on, it's hard to make a case that "progressives" control the media.
    I thought you "conservatives" were in favor of free-market capitalism.

You are hilarious!  You veer from the "baker's-gotta-bake-the-queer-cake" to "you-can't force-business-owners" at the drop of a hat.  As long as it fits your agenda. 

David Garner

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2021, 10:14:14 AM »
It would be nice, just once, for the people who are always cheerleading cancel culture to simply admit "we don't like what you say and we support silencing you so our views can be the only ones heard."

It's what they mean.  It's what they want.  But there's always this tap dance to excuse everything.

As I've said a million times here, we aren't falling for the banana in the tailpipe.  And trying to pretend things are fair and appropriate in the current culture means that you either think we're stupid, or you want us to think you think we're stupid.  Either way, it's pretty far from the self-perceived "tolerance" the left used to pride itself on before it became a bunch of speech police nannies, only with all the levers of cultural power firmly in its grip.  The truth is, breaking that cultural power is the first step to rectifying this, because they show no desire, much less intent, to wield them responsibly.

Which is why something else I say all the time is this: my job is to raise my kids properly and point out to them the inherent evil in cancel culture and woke politics. Because one day the cheerleaders will become the targets.  They're like male praying mantises, in bed with their own assassins, but man it sure feels good right now, so carpe diem!
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

peter_speckhard

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2021, 10:19:27 AM »
David Garner writes:
Are you suggesting YouTube and Twitter are publishers?

I comment:
   Whatever they are, they are "things" owned by their owners. You can't force a store to sell products it does not want to sell. You cannot - except under very unusual circumstances - force a factory to produce goods the owners do not want to produce. You cannot force a restaurant to have certain things on its menu.
   Maybe technology laws need to be developed, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps we should be concerned about the lies and incitements published by Breitbart and other, often obscure ultra-right-wing media.
   But the real deal is that the two organizations mentioned upstream have not been "silenced." They have their own publications; they have their websites; they have several other avenues of "publication" open to them.
   And I would contend that so long as Fox and its kits, Limbaugh and the Rush wannabees, Savage, the Washington Times, etc. etc. keep on keeping on, it's hard to make a case that "progressives" control the media.
    I thought you "conservatives" were in favor of free-market capitalism.

You are hilarious!  You veer from the "baker's-gotta-bake-the-queer-cake" to "you-can't force-business-owners" at the drop of a hat.  As long as it fits your agenda.
And the hypocrisy is really even more egregious than that. He doesn't just think the bakery should have to allow cakes with offensive messages to be sold on the premises. He think the baker himself should be forced to design and make them. Furthermore, no baker has a functional monopoly on baked goods. Any couple can take their business elsewhere at the drop of a hat unless they live on some tiny island or out in the wilderness. Not so with YouTube and the small cadres of tech giants.

Dan Fienen

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2021, 10:27:59 AM »
Apparently everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.


Could a newspaper decide to refuse engagement announcements for same sex couples?  The owners own the paper can they arbitrarily decide what they will print?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Dan Fienen

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2021, 10:32:50 AM »
Should platforms such as Twitter who are not publishers be considered like public accommodations?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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David Garner

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2021, 10:33:31 AM »
David Garner writes:
Are you suggesting YouTube and Twitter are publishers?

I comment:
   Whatever they are, they are "things" owned by their owners. You can't force a store to sell products it does not want to sell. You cannot - except under very unusual circumstances - force a factory to produce goods the owners do not want to produce. You cannot force a restaurant to have certain things on its menu.
   Maybe technology laws need to be developed, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps we should be concerned about the lies and incitements published by Breitbart and other, often obscure ultra-right-wing media.
   But the real deal is that the two organizations mentioned upstream have not been "silenced." They have their own publications; they have their websites; they have several other avenues of "publication" open to them.
   And I would contend that so long as Fox and its kits, Limbaugh and the Rush wannabees, Savage, the Washington Times, etc. etc. keep on keeping on, it's hard to make a case that "progressives" control the media.
    I thought you "conservatives" were in favor of free-market capitalism.

You are hilarious!  You veer from the "baker's-gotta-bake-the-queer-cake" to "you-can't force-business-owners" at the drop of a hat.  As long as it fits your agenda.
And the hypocrisy is really even more egregious than that. He doesn't just think the bakery should have to allow cakes with offensive messages to be sold on the premises. He think the baker himself should be forced to design and make them. Furthermore, no baker has a functional monopoly on baked goods. Any couple can take their business elsewhere at the drop of a hat unless they live on some tiny island or out in the wilderness. Not so with YouTube and the small cadres of tech giants.

That even is a gross overstatement.  The desire to force bakers to create cakes with messages he disagrees with is not universal. He only thinks Christian bakers ought to have to do that.  He wouldn't think of requiring a Muslim baker to design and bake a cake with an explicitly anti-Muslim message on it.  Or a gay baker to bake a cake with an explicitly anti-gay message on it.  The difference between him and us is simply this -- we all agree with him regarding the Muslim baker and the gay baker.

Of course, that's the rub here isn't it?  Bakers aren't like monopolistic publishers pretending to be fair market platforms while engaging in market collusion to stifle competition and stamp down wrong-think.  Not even close.  The most common thing I heard from people defending Jack Phillips was "they could have found a dozen bakers in the area to bake them that cake."  And that is a true statement.  It is not true of Twitter, as the whole debacle with Parler demonstrates.

This is where the conversation naturally devolves though, as I expect Pastor Stoffregen's shocked face to appear asking "what is anti-Christian about a rainbow flag cake with 2 dudes on top and 1 of them in a wedding dress," and before you know it we'll be discussing shrimp and head coverings.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2021, 10:33:52 AM »
Should platforms such as Twitter who are not publishers be considered like public accommodations?

Or, since they control the infrastructure, public utilities?
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

RPG

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2021, 11:01:43 AM »
Should platforms such as Twitter who are not publishers be considered like public accommodations?

Or, since they control the infrastructure, public utilities?

From a recent essay by Victor Davis Hanson entitled "Our Animal Farm":
Quote
A new Orwellian phrase is “free speech is not free reach”—as leftists become the intellectual inheritors of the racists of the open-housing fights of the 1950s and 1960. The old racist boilerplate of apartment owners and realtors was “You can live anywhere you want, just not here.” The new hate mantra of Silicon Valley cartels is, “You can tweet or socially post anywhere you like—if you can manage to find a place.”
The Rev. Ryan P. Gage
Eureka, SD

Charles Austin

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Re: LifeStiteNews and Project Veritas
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2021, 11:16:32 AM »
My goodness! What a tin of wigglies has been uncapped!
Pastor Peters writes:
The problem is not simply that Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc... censor what goes on their platforms, but they are the only platforms and they conspire against any platforms that would offer a different point of view or allow prohibited content on the major platforms.
I comment:
Then go build another platform. And make it viable. People have done that. And people have tried and failed to do that. That's how things work. BTW you just named three-plus platforms. And there are many more.

Pastor Peters:
You don't like one newspaper's point of view, you read another.  You don't like one news channel, you watch another.  You don't like ALPB, you go on LutherQuest (that last one was an attempt at humor).  But the businesses conspired to shut down Parler and any other competitors.  That is also the problem.
Me:
And newspapers have had “wars” to shut down competition. Ditto for magazines and broadcast outlets. All part of the free-market capitalism system.

Peter writes:
What if YouTube took down all wedding videos of gay weddings but left up everyone else's wedding videos? Would you still have that, "Hey, it is what it is, and it is theirs, so they can whatever they want with it" attitude?
I comment:
Yes, I would say that the owners of YouTube should have complete control over what is on the thing that they own.

Mr. Garner writes:
As I've said a million times here, we aren't falling for the banana in the tailpipe.  And trying to pretend things are fair and appropriate in the current culture means that you either think we're stupid, or you want us to think you think we're stupid.
I comment:
No, things are not “fair and appropriate in the current culture.” Minorities are systematically neglected or intentionally shut out. Economic advantages are not equal across the various demographics. The stupid people don't realize that or think it doesn't matter. I don't think you are among them.

Mr. Garner again:
 Either way, it's pretty far from the self-perceived "tolerance" the left used to pride itself on before it became a bunch of speech police nannies, only with all the levers of cultural power firmly in its grip.
Me again:
The “levers of cultural power” were formerly in the grip of elderly white males. I guess that was all right with you. And I think that the 70+ million people who voted for the former president are proof that the "power" of those elderly white males is not all "progressive." Add to that the fact that the elderly white dudes in the Senate are likely to refuse to convict him in the present troubles.

Mr. Garner again:
 The truth is, breaking that cultural power is the first step to rectifying this, because they show no desire, much less intent, to wield them responsibly.
Me:
Yep. You got it.

Pastor Fienen writes:
Could a newspaper decide to refuse engagement announcements for same sex couples?  The owners own the paper can they arbitrarily decide what they will print?
I comment:
Yes, absolutely. And the owners of a paper do not do things “arbitrarily.” They do things for business reasons. I was in on some of the discussions about using "Ms." rather than "Miss" or "Mrs." in newspapers. While all aspects were discussed, I think business reasons drove the final decision and that the people who worked on the business and profit side of the paper had the final say.

Pastor Fienen writes:
Should platforms such as Twitter who are not publishers be considered like public accommodations?
I comment:
I don’t know. My gut reaction is, no. But I don't know.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 11:41:31 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.