Author Topic: Valpo mascot task force  (Read 8996 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #150 on: February 18, 2021, 01:25:06 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
Something that I have failed to understand is how the European Christian invasion of what had become Muslim Palestine in the Crusades was a crime against humanity, an indelible black stain on the honor of Christianity and the West, while the Islamic invasion of Palestine, the destruction of the Christian communities of North Africa, conquest of Byzantium, conquest of Spain, conquest of the Balkans and Greece, and invasion of Eastern Europe was apparently just fine and dandy? Were they not the Islamic Crusades?

Me:
Who says those things were “fine“? They were not. Any violent conquest of a people is not good. But neither can we justify what we have done in retribution and revenge, or for the excesses of the crusades some of which were also aimed at Byzantine Christians, our fellow believers.


Yet there is much sympathy for the victims of the Crusades and much wringing of the hands over them. Where is the reminder that the aggression exhibited by Jihadist Islamic Militants and Terrorists today reflects Islam's very militant past? No, we are assured that Islam is actually a religion of peace, that we should consider Islamic terrorism as an aberration, and as possibly a justified response to the Christian Crusades. I do not excuse the excesses and atrocities that were committed by the Christian Crusades, but do they justify the terrorist atrocities of today? 
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #151 on: February 18, 2021, 02:00:20 PM »
According to the Valpo Torch, the campaign to change the mascot was driven by two alumni:
Quote
The issue of whether the Crusader has reflected Valpo values has been an ongoing conversation for decades. It recently gained momentum in June 2020 when a Facebook group composed of alumni, students and faculty gained popularity.

The group entitled “The Coalition to Retire the Crusader” was spearheaded by alumni Mike Nevergall and Kevin York both of whom dedicated their time to organize the Valpo community through petitions and letter-writing campaigns.

“I mean I feel good about the direction of the university now, I feel like with the retirement of the crusader we can come together as an extended campus community and really unify around a new mascot that is more inclusive of the place that Valparaiso University is and what it really stands for,” York said.

These guys, whether one agrees with them or not, seem to have standing.
I don't know either of these men. Mike is a gift planning counselor at Gustavus and Board President for the VU Alumni Association. Kevin York heads up a communications firm. They both attended around the same time about 15 years ago. It would seem that experience and position gave them an opportunity to create momentum for this change.

Kevin York's firm has put out a press release for the Coalition. (I automatically distrust it when people call themselves a Coalition; too many sad experiences. But I've got to beware of generalizing my experiences.)
https://www.openpr.com/news/2234372/coalition-of-valparaiso-university-students-alumni-faculty

Peace,
Michael
From the article: “Not only does the Crusader mascot not align with the University’s mission and values, but by choosing to maintain the status quo, it is essentially saying that it can afford to alienate a certain percentage of its pool of prospective students and their families,” said Mike Nevergall, Immediate Past President of the VU Alumni Association and a Coalition leader. “In the hyper-competitive world of college admissions, that seems like a bad gamble.

Good thing the choice to change the mascot had no chance of alienating prospective students and their families.

More broadly speaking, the article gives the lie to the claim that this change was brought about by appropriation of the crusader image by hate groups. The people who were really animated to make this change find the crusader mascot offensive in itself, not because an otherwise okay symbol was appropriated by KKK types. It isn't a matter of honorably retiring a mascot that time has passed by. It is about officially declaring that mascot of symbol of bigotry.   

Jeremy_Loesch

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #152 on: February 18, 2021, 03:00:06 PM »
Glad to hear that VU is feeling some heat through social media
 It certainly makes it fun to observe as an outsider.

And I hope that Evan's comment doesn't get lost. Why is the administration not more forthcoming about the survey results?

Jeremy

Charles Austin

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #153 on: February 18, 2021, 03:18:16 PM »
There is heat, Pastor Fienen, then there is mean-spirited mockery, lying and calumny. And the latter is what Mr. Limbaugh practiced with a vehemence for many years.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Dave Likeness

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #154 on: February 18, 2021, 03:43:30 PM »
William Buckley Jr. died in 2008, and with his death,  genuine conservatism.lost a voice.
He graduated from Yale University and eventually founded the journal "National Review".
Buckley was an intellectual who could present the principles of conservatism in a winsome
manner.  From 1966 to 1999, he hosted the public affairs TV program "Firing Line" and
the 1,429 episodes.  He debated with various guests on the issues of the day.  He was
well-respected by those at the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #155 on: February 18, 2021, 03:54:52 PM »
There is heat, Pastor Fienen, then there is mean-spirited mockery, lying and calumny. And the latter is what Mr. Limbaugh practiced with a vehemence for many years.
So, so long as your diatribes and those of the ones with whom you align do not in your opinion reach the level of Mr. Limbaugh's rants, they are perfectly fine and great additions to discourse. In fact the more ridicule that is heaped on those with whom you disagree the better. Limbaugh justified it. Tit for tat is great so long as you are the one dishing?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Charles Austin

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #156 on: February 18, 2021, 04:49:14 PM »
I do not “dish.“ William S. Buckley was a perfect example of a staunch conservative who could be intellectual, engaging, polite and humorous even as he was being critical of those of another stripe. He was not mean. He was not nasty. And he did not mock people in a mean spirited way. On one occasion, I interviewed him and RJN together. And I always learned something from his television show, because he was not out to make fun of the other side or to bring out and play to the worst side of his audience. Unlike the late Mr. Limbaugh.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #157 on: February 18, 2021, 05:01:45 PM »
Look, Charles, just because I am not a liberal as you, that does not mean that I approved of Mr. Limbaugh. Far from it. I considered him much more of an entertainer than a newsman or even a news commentator. Quite frankly, I thought that Don Rickles did that whole insult comedy schtick better than Rush. I realize that it is very handy for you to assume that everyone who does not fall in line with the liberal/progressive party line idolized Trump and took their daily instruction from chairman Rush. That allows you to simply dismiss us as being barely worthy of your instruction, certainly unworthy of listening to or actually discussing with. We are not all White Supremacists no matter what the orthodox political thinking is. But who am I to disturb your smugness?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #158 on: February 18, 2021, 05:36:20 PM »
I liked Rush's show, although I have not listened to it for several years.  His "mockery" paled in comparison to what is said by those on the left on their radio and TV shows. 

RDPreus

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #159 on: February 18, 2021, 06:10:15 PM »
I liked both William Buckley and Rush Limbaugh.  Both were entertaining, but in different ways.  While Buckley's Firing Line was a great success, he never connected to the common man the way Rush did.  Limbaugh angered people who took themselves too seriously.  Like Trump, he wasn't interested in the approval of liberal elitist snobs.  He reveled in mocking them to the delight of his conservative audiences.  Buckley beat them at their own game.  Limbaugh wouldn't play their game.

Charles Austin

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #160 on: February 18, 2021, 06:23:12 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
I realize that it is very handy for you to assume that everyone who does not fall in line with the liberal/progressive party line idolized Trump and took their daily instruction from chairman Rush.
Me:
Not everyone did, but some did. Actually, a lot did.

Pastor Fienen:
That allows you to simply dismiss us as being barely worthy of your instruction, certainly unworthy of listening to or actually discussing with.
Me:
If I thought that, why would I take all the time I take to respond do you? There are people not worthy of my instruction. I don’t respond to them.

Pastor Fienen:
We are not all White Supremacists no matter what the orthodox political thinking is.
Me:
I never said you were. And there is no “orthodox political thinking.” But why do you keep protesting that I think you are?

Pastor Fienen:
But who am I to disturb your smugness?
Me:
If I have that quality, it’s not the part of me that you disturb. Now you get the final word.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

George Rahn

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #161 on: February 18, 2021, 06:28:07 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
I realize that it is very handy for you to assume that everyone who does not fall in line with the liberal/progressive party line idolized Trump and took their daily instruction from chairman Rush.
Me:
Not everyone did, but some did. Actually, a lot did.

Pastor Fienen:
That allows you to simply dismiss us as being barely worthy of your instruction, certainly unworthy of listening to or actually discussing with.
Me:
If I thought that, why would I take all the time I take to respond do you? There are people not worthy of my instruction. I don’t respond to them.

Pastor Fienen:
We are not all White Supremacists no matter what the orthodox political thinking is.
Me:
I never said you were. And there is no “orthodox political thinking.” But why do you keep protesting that I think you are?

Pastor Fienen:
But who am I to disturb your smugness?
Me:
If I have that quality, it’s not the part of me that you disturb. Now you get the final word.

...until you get the final word.  Lol

peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #162 on: February 18, 2021, 07:05:05 PM »
Can we not let Charles’s ill-informed and mean-spirited trashing of the recently deceased Limbaugh sidetrack the thread, please?

Michael Slusser

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #163 on: February 18, 2021, 08:27:48 PM »
According to the Valpo Torch, the campaign to change the mascot was driven by two alumni:
Quote
The issue of whether the Crusader has reflected Valpo values has been an ongoing conversation for decades. It recently gained momentum in June 2020 when a Facebook group composed of alumni, students and faculty gained popularity.

The group entitled “The Coalition to Retire the Crusader” was spearheaded by alumni Mike Nevergall and Kevin York both of whom dedicated their time to organize the Valpo community through petitions and letter-writing campaigns.

“I mean I feel good about the direction of the university now, I feel like with the retirement of the crusader we can come together as an extended campus community and really unify around a new mascot that is more inclusive of the place that Valparaiso University is and what it really stands for,” York said.

These guys, whether one agrees with them or not, seem to have standing.
I don't know either of these men. Mike is a gift planning counselor at Gustavus and Board President for the VU Alumni Association. Kevin York heads up a communications firm. They both attended around the same time about 15 years ago. It would seem that experience and position gave them an opportunity to create momentum for this change.

Kevin York's firm has put out a press release for the Coalition. (I automatically distrust it when people call themselves a Coalition; too many sad experiences. But I've got to beware of generalizing my experiences.)
https://www.openpr.com/news/2234372/coalition-of-valparaiso-university-students-alumni-faculty

Peace,
Michael
From the article: “Not only does the Crusader mascot not align with the University’s mission and values, but by choosing to maintain the status quo, it is essentially saying that it can afford to alienate a certain percentage of its pool of prospective students and their families,” said Mike Nevergall, Immediate Past President of the VU Alumni Association and a Coalition leader. “In the hyper-competitive world of college admissions, that seems like a bad gamble.

Good thing the choice to change the mascot had no chance of alienating prospective students and their families.

More broadly speaking, the article gives the lie to the claim that this change was brought about by appropriation of the crusader image by hate groups. The people who were really animated to make this change find the crusader mascot offensive in itself, not because an otherwise okay symbol was appropriated by KKK types. It isn't a matter of honorably retiring a mascot that time has passed by. It is about officially declaring that mascot of symbol of bigotry.   
It sounds to me like it's a campaign driven by market forces as perceived. It's the way of the secular world. I see RC institutions omitting to say anything too Catholic because they've got it in their heads that it won't sell. This goes back 40 years; it isn't a product of today's political posturing.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Dave Likeness

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #164 on: February 23, 2021, 12:12:18 PM »
In the 1960's and 1970's Valpo had the reputation that 90% of their graduates
had a job within 6 months after they got their diploma.  Corporate America
liked the education their students received as well as the high moral standards
of the Valpo grads.

I had one cousin who got a job with General Motors as an engineer and another
cousin who was hired by All State Insurance Company.  Both of them liked their
jobs and stayed with the company for their entire careers.