Author Topic: Valpo mascot task force  (Read 8974 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #136 on: February 18, 2021, 11:01:56 AM »
One might conclude that the level of opposition to the change is covered in the comment of the person who said the change represented a “complete Islamic takeover“ of the school.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Steven W Bohler

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #137 on: February 18, 2021, 11:45:09 AM »
https://www.thecollegefix.com/valparaiso-shuts-down-facebook-comments-amid-backlash-for-ditching-crusaders-mascot/

What I most enjoyed about the article was this note at the bottom of the page:

"The College Fix has temporarily suspended comments, as independent-minded websites like ours try to survive cancel culture and social-media hostility. In the meantime, please join the conversation about our stories on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, MeWe, Rumble and Parler. Also follow us as we grow our social media presence on alternative platforms such as MeWe, Telegram, Rumble and others."

Isn't that the same thing (and probably for the same reason) as what they are writing Valpo did?

therevev

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #138 on: February 18, 2021, 11:48:54 AM »
I read the article on college fix. I think the lack of transparency on the survey is troubling. I know I filled out the survey and in the comments section I made sure to point out that this change is a distraction from the real work of identifying and maintaining the mission of the school.
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #139 on: February 18, 2021, 11:53:01 AM »
One might conclude that the level of opposition to the change is covered in the comment of the person who said the change represented a “complete Islamic takeover“ of the school.
It has become an all too standard response to controversy to paint those who hold a position opposed to ones own with the brush of those on the most extreme fringe of that opposing side. Thus all those who opposed the change in mascot hold the outlandish position that it represented a "complete Islamic takeover" of the school. And those who supported the change were simply caving into the cancel culture and ignoring true history. Thus one can simply dismiss opposing views as those of the ignorant, the craven, the foolish, the apostate, or the lunatic fringe. One need not engage in honest discussion or try to see their concerns.


So no, Charles, we should not conclude that the level of opposition to the the change is all on the level of the "complete Islamic takeover" of the school comment. That you cannot see the issues being raised as worthy of consideration says something about your ability to see beyond your own opinions or empathize with those who do not think just like you.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 11:56:18 AM by Dan Fienen »
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #140 on: February 18, 2021, 12:22:49 PM »
Something that I have failed to understand is how the European Christian invasion of what had become Muslim Palestine in the Crusades was a crime against humanity, an indelible black stain on the honor of Christianity and the West, while the Islamic invasion of Palestine, the destruction of the Christian communities of North Africa, conquest of Byzantium, conquest of Spain, conquest of the Balkans and Greece, and invasion of Eastern Europe was apparently just fine and dandy? Were they not the Islamic Crusades?
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Michael Slusser

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #141 on: February 18, 2021, 12:23:54 PM »
According to the Valpo Torch, the campaign to change the mascot was driven by two alumni:
Quote
The issue of whether the Crusader has reflected Valpo values has been an ongoing conversation for decades. It recently gained momentum in June 2020 when a Facebook group composed of alumni, students and faculty gained popularity.

The group entitled “The Coalition to Retire the Crusader” was spearheaded by alumni Mike Nevergall and Kevin York both of whom dedicated their time to organize the Valpo community through petitions and letter-writing campaigns.

“I mean I feel good about the direction of the university now, I feel like with the retirement of the crusader we can come together as an extended campus community and really unify around a new mascot that is more inclusive of the place that Valparaiso University is and what it really stands for,” York said.

These guys, whether one agrees with them or not, seem to have standing.

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Michael
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #143 on: February 18, 2021, 12:51:07 PM »
Pastor Bohler reports that the website said:
College Fix has temporarily suspended comments, as independent-minded websites like ours try to survive cancel culture and social-media hostility.
I comment, laughingly:
Aww! The poor people there! Folks out in the world don’t like them! The poor things!
Grow up.
Some of us have endured hostility from the right for decades. Some people are eulogizing the late Rush Limbaugh. Others are remembering his mean, nasty, words towards people on the liberal side of things, his denunciation of women, including specific women. He had the largest mouth in all of talk radio, and he used it to put people down, to make fun of them, and to attempt to spawn further hatred towards them.
You worry about “cancel culture“? Consider his record over the years.
I simply point out that it is a tough, argumentative world. If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

therevev

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #144 on: February 18, 2021, 12:55:11 PM »
According to the Valpo Torch, the campaign to change the mascot was driven by two alumni:
Quote
The issue of whether the Crusader has reflected Valpo values has been an ongoing conversation for decades. It recently gained momentum in June 2020 when a Facebook group composed of alumni, students and faculty gained popularity.

The group entitled “The Coalition to Retire the Crusader” was spearheaded by alumni Mike Nevergall and Kevin York both of whom dedicated their time to organize the Valpo community through petitions and letter-writing campaigns.

“I mean I feel good about the direction of the university now, I feel like with the retirement of the crusader we can come together as an extended campus community and really unify around a new mascot that is more inclusive of the place that Valparaiso University is and what it really stands for,” York said.

I don't know either of these men. Mike is a gift planning counselor at Gustavus and Board President for the VU Alumni Association. Kevin York heads up a communications firm. They both attended around the same time about 15 years ago. It would seem that experience and position gave them an opportunity to create momentum for this change.

These guys, whether one agrees with them or not, seem to have standing.

Peace,
Michael
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Evan
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #145 on: February 18, 2021, 12:55:58 PM »
According to the Valpo Torch, the campaign to change the mascot was driven by two alumni:
Quote
The issue of whether the Crusader has reflected Valpo values has been an ongoing conversation for decades. It recently gained momentum in June 2020 when a Facebook group composed of alumni, students and faculty gained popularity.

The group entitled “The Coalition to Retire the Crusader” was spearheaded by alumni Mike Nevergall and Kevin York both of whom dedicated their time to organize the Valpo community through petitions and letter-writing campaigns.

“I mean I feel good about the direction of the university now, I feel like with the retirement of the crusader we can come together as an extended campus community and really unify around a new mascot that is more inclusive of the place that Valparaiso University is and what it really stands for,” York said.

These guys, whether one agrees with them or not, seem to have standing.

Peace,
Michael
That's the kind of thinking that plagues our culture. We weren't united before because I wasn't getting my way. Now that I got my way, I feel like we can all really unite and rally around this new thing.

Obviously, the coming together of the campus community, unifying and rallying around the new, more inclusive mascot can only happen by marginalizing everyone who doesn't rally around the change as somehow a problematic part of the "campus community." That's how it always works. My way is unifying. Your way is divisive.

Charles Austin

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #146 on: February 18, 2021, 12:57:52 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
Something that I have failed to understand is how the European Christian invasion of what had become Muslim Palestine in the Crusades was a crime against humanity, an indelible black stain on the honor of Christianity and the West, while the Islamic invasion of Palestine, the destruction of the Christian communities of North Africa, conquest of Byzantium, conquest of Spain, conquest of the Balkans and Greece, and invasion of Eastern Europe was apparently just fine and dandy? Were they not the Islamic Crusades?

Me:
Who says those things were “fine“? They were not. Any violent conquest of a people is not good. But neither can we justify what we have done in retribution and revenge, or for the excesses of the crusades some of which were also aimed at Byzantine Christians, our fellow believers.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #147 on: February 18, 2021, 12:58:52 PM »
One might conclude that the level of opposition to the change is covered in the comment of the person who said the change represented a “complete Islamic takeover“ of the school.
One might if one were stupid.


Michael Slusser

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #148 on: February 18, 2021, 01:00:34 PM »
According to the Valpo Torch, the campaign to change the mascot was driven by two alumni:
Quote
The issue of whether the Crusader has reflected Valpo values has been an ongoing conversation for decades. It recently gained momentum in June 2020 when a Facebook group composed of alumni, students and faculty gained popularity.

The group entitled “The Coalition to Retire the Crusader” was spearheaded by alumni Mike Nevergall and Kevin York both of whom dedicated their time to organize the Valpo community through petitions and letter-writing campaigns.

“I mean I feel good about the direction of the university now, I feel like with the retirement of the crusader we can come together as an extended campus community and really unify around a new mascot that is more inclusive of the place that Valparaiso University is and what it really stands for,” York said.

These guys, whether one agrees with them or not, seem to have standing.
I don't know either of these men. Mike is a gift planning counselor at Gustavus and Board President for the VU Alumni Association. Kevin York heads up a communications firm. They both attended around the same time about 15 years ago. It would seem that experience and position gave them an opportunity to create momentum for this change.

Kevin York's firm has put out a press release for the Coalition. (I automatically distrust it when people call themselves a Coalition; too many sad experiences. But I've got to beware of generalizing my experiences.)
https://www.openpr.com/news/2234372/coalition-of-valparaiso-university-students-alumni-faculty

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #149 on: February 18, 2021, 01:19:13 PM »
Pastor Bohler reports that the website said:
College Fix has temporarily suspended comments, as independent-minded websites like ours try to survive cancel culture and social-media hostility.
I comment, laughingly:
Aww! The poor people there! Folks out in the world don’t like them! The poor things!
Grow up.
Some of us have endured hostility from the right for decades. Some people are eulogizing the late Rush Limbaugh. Others are remembering his mean, nasty, words towards people on the liberal side of things, his denunciation of women, including specific women. He had the largest mouth in all of talk radio, and he used it to put people down, to make fun of them, and to attempt to spawn further hatred towards them.
You worry about “cancel culture“? Consider his record over the years.
I simply point out that it is a tough, argumentative world. If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
And you seem to relish applying that heat to those you disagree with. How horrible what Rush Limbaugh said to and about people that he disagreed with. (Actually I never did like the man or his public persona, much of what he added to public discourse was not beneficial, but I digress.) And you rejoice when such is applied to those on the conservative side of things. Serves the right!
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