Author Topic: Valpo mascot task force  (Read 8992 times)

JEdwards

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #165 on: February 23, 2021, 01:07:49 PM »
It sounds to me like it's a campaign driven by market forces as perceived. It's the way of the secular world. I see RC institutions omitting to say anything too Catholic because they've got it in their heads that it won't sell. This goes back 40 years; it isn't a product of today's political posturing.

Peace,
Michael

A couple years ago, one of my sons looked at Capital University.  On his campus tour, the guide somewhat sheepishly mentioned the Lutheran affiliation, but immediately reassured that group that this wouldn't really affect their college experience.  My son ended up going to Gannon University, an RC school that seemed more willing to embrace its identity as a religious institution.

Peace,
Jon

Dave Likeness

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #166 on: February 23, 2021, 01:44:53 PM »
 Men's basketball coach Paul Meadows at Valpo came to Davenport, Iowa
to recruit my cousin for the Crusaders team.  My cousin was 6' 4" forward
 in his Senior Year of high school.  Coach Meadows wanted to look at my
cousin's hands and feet because he thought he could tell how much more
my cousin would grow.  My aunt believed this was nonsense.  However,
my cousin did get a basketball scholarship to play at Valpo.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #167 on: February 24, 2021, 09:09:45 AM »

A couple years ago, one of my sons looked at Capital University.  On his campus tour, the guide somewhat sheepishly mentioned the Lutheran affiliation, but immediately reassured that group that this wouldn't really affect their college experience.  My son ended up going to Gannon University, an RC school that seemed more willing to embrace its identity as a religious institution.


This is hardly just an ELCA problem, nor is it new. Oh, I have stories. When my daughter was looking at colleges nearly 20 years ago now, we visited a Methodist school. On the tour, I asked (as I always did), what influence the school's church relationship had on life on the campus. In this case the guide actually denied that the school was church-related. (I'm sure she simply didn't know.)

My daughter toured a Presbyterian school at the behest of our friend Joe Robinson, then principal oboist of the NY Philharmonic and an alum (and one-time trustee, I think) of that school. He came with us on the tour. The guide (who was actually an employee, not just a student, though a recent grad) explained that the Presbyterian affiliation didn't mean much, and made a point of saying that the chapel was utilized by the Muslim students and anyone else who needed a place to gather. As we walked on the tour, Joe at one point quietly introduced himself to the guide, who later said, "Well, we've had a distinguished alumnus with us this afternoon on our tour! This is Mr. Robinson from the New York Philanthropic Association." That about killed it for my music major daughter (and her father).
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Mbecker

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #168 on: February 26, 2021, 01:57:37 PM »
From our interim president today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb5xY8mSnAA&feature=youtu.be

Our new president officially begins his leadership/service on Monday. We would welcome your prayers for him and for the ongoing mission of our Lutheran university.

Matt Becker

P.S. The "Molly" to whom our interim president refers in her video is one of our physician-assistant students who happens to be taking my Luther-Bach course this term. She's taking it to fulfill her upper-division theology requirement. I just finished meeting with her via Zoom. She's writing her midterm paper about Luther's hymn on the Lord's Supper, "Gott sei gelobet und gebenedeiet" (WA 35.452-53 [text]; WA 35.514-15 [melody]; LW 53.252-54; TLH 313; LBW 215; LuthW 238; CW 317; ELH 327; LSB 617; ELW 498). We had a good discussion about Luther's sacramental theology and about the points of contact between this hymn and the section on the Sacrament of the Altar in his Small Catechism. The morning got off to a good start....

Michael_Rothaar

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #169 on: February 26, 2021, 04:14:12 PM »
Quote

A couple years ago, one of my sons looked at Capital University.  On his campus tour, the guide somewhat sheepishly mentioned the Lutheran affiliation, but immediately reassured that group that this wouldn't really affect their college experience.  My son ended up going to Gannon University, an RC school that seemed more willing to embrace its identity as a religious institution.

Peace,
Jon

Capital University (Columbus, Ohio) also recently eliminated the "Crusader" mascot and moniker. My wife and I -- both graduates -- replied to the survey when the change was under consideration, and are now being contacted regularly, to urge us to go to the website gathering suggestions for a new symbol. Two of my kids are Valpo graduates -- and the third used to work there -- so CrusaderCanceling has had an impact on our family (however slight).

Since Trinity Seminary is now part of Capital again (after becoming independent in the 1960 TALC merger) perhaps campus tour guides will be more willing to embrace the university's traditional roots (however unlikely).
Mike Rothaar
Retired from roster of active ELCA pastors 01 Jul 2012.
Mind and Spirit still working.

Mbecker

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #170 on: March 01, 2021, 11:06:20 AM »
The problem is 20th century theology's, especially Lutheran, childish and yes gnostic understanding of the Christian Life.  And asserting that Clement, Origin and Gregory would agree is almost to proclaim that they haven't been read.  The entire Heidelberg "Theology of the cross/glory" is a language game that does two things: a) it passive-aggressively neuters the life of sanctification, b) by doing so condemns the active Christian life that is intended to flow from Christ's work to an eternal mental childishness.  Any passage of scripture that suggests what we do with this life is meaningful is written off as a theology of glory that doesn't mentally grasp the cross. But such a teaching is not one that helps the new man arise and live in righteousness and purity, but a gnostic game that helps us get away with evil.  It is the very essence of Paul's rhetorical lament, "Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?"  Hell no.

For example from Origen's commentary on Romans:
Quote
This faith, when it has been justified, is firmly embedded in the soil of the soul like a root that has received rain, so that when it begins to be cultivated by God's law, branches arise from it that bring forth the fruit of works. The root of righteousness, therefore, does not grow out of the works, but rather the fruit of works grows out of the root of righteousness, that root, of course, of righteousness that God also credits even apart from works.

Or from Clement:
Quote
The name alone, indeed, without works, does not introduce into the kingdom of heaven; but, if a man be truly a believer, such an one can be saved. For, if a person be only called a believer in name, whilst he is not such in works, he cannot possibly be a believer. “Let no one,” therefore, “lead you astray with the empty words of error.” (Eph_5:6) For, merely because a person is called a virgin, if he be destitute of works excellent and comely, and suitable to virginity, he cannot possibly be saved.

Which of course is simply Augsburg VI on the New Obedience.  And a good teacher, far from obscuring things with babbling about Theologies of Glory, would commend an intentionality in those in whom the Spirit dwells. For to desire holiness is to desire God who is our only lasting consolation. Which is the encouragement of the Sermon on the Mount.  What begins with the poor in spirit, those without the Spirit, those who know they are poor miserable sinners, being given the Kingdom by grace moves outward not as an enclosed mental light, but a light put on a stand.  And that light shines so that other real people might see the good works and give glory to the Father.  And what is this fruitful life?  You have heard it said...but I say to you; the law is a good guide.  And added to that natural law, prayer, fasting and almsgiving; humble acts of piety, of walking humbly with God the Spirit dwelling.  And is this life haphazard? No!  Lay up for yourself treasure in heaven.  You can't serve two masters.  Be intentional about Who you are serving.  And yes, you will not be perfect at this.  Do not be anxious, your Father knows what you need.  Seek the Kingdom and His righteousness.

So we really need to turn to Augsburg XXI - On the Saints at this time, because that is what a mascot really is, an image of a saint.  And what does that say?

Quote
Of the Worship of Saints they teach that the memory of saints may be set before us, that we may follow their faith and good works, according to our calling, as the Emperor may follow the example of David in making war to drive away the Turk from his country.

Would I rather the imperfect, as we all are, image of a crusader, who did have faith and was attempting to express it in good works as their Emperors and Popes where proclaiming at the time, or some disincarnate image?  And the initial crusade might even qualify under ACXXI's allowance to make war to drive away the Turk from his country, as "the Holy Land" had been Byzantine and it was the Byzantine emperor that requested military help.  As blurry an image as a crusader is, it is still an image that faith and good works can be held up.  Inevitably what will be chosen could be just as much a symbol of any other religion.  The motto is "In Thy Light We See Light", but the connection to the "Thy" is what is being erased.  Which is doing the same thing as the theology, putting the light under a bushel.

Mark,
I will ignore your insult about my understanding of Clement and Origen and simply state that you seem to have misunderstood my use of the term "Gnostic" in reference to those Alexandrian theologians. I would prefer their version of Christian theology and discipleship to that which supported and shaped medieval Christian crusading and the theology of glory/(re)conquest that was near the heart of it. It is difficult to imagine Clement or Origen celebrating "the Christian disciple" who sought to lop off the heads of infidels in the name of Christ and who welcomed the booty and other rewards/prizes (material and purgatorial) that were promised to come from such militaristic pilgrimage and conquest. The crusades reflect the pagan Germanization of Christendom, the melding of anti-Christian militarism and Christian discipleship, a synthesis that is at odds with Jesus' teaching of discipleship in the Sermon on the Mount. That Germanic tribal-pagan holdover of militarism and its influence upon medieval understandings of Christian discipleship represent a different kind of syncretism than that which took place among the Alexandrians. Instead of "blessed are the meek, the poor in spirit, the peacemakers, etc.," for the Germanic Christian of the crusading type, the beatitudes were changed to become: "Blessed are the rich, for they will possess the earth and all its glory," and "Blessed are the war-like, for they shall win wealth and renown" (to cite the hyperbolic quip of one historian). As important as Karl der Grosse was for the historical development of European Christendom, he, too, reflected this pagan ideology that would directly contribute to the rise of the ideal Christian disciple as "crusader."

I was using the term "Gnostic" merely in the manner of those non-militaristic, cerebral Alexandrian disciples of the incarnate Logos. Against Tertullian-like Christians, who distrust pagan learning and philosophical argument and who can find no use for them, I would rather take my cues from the "Gnostic" theology of Justin Martyr (who referred to Saint Sophocles and Saint Plato), of Origen (who made use of Greek philosophy to support and defend Christian teaching, and who sought to be martyred for the faith rather than to take up arms against pagan infidels), and of a whole host of other ancients, e.g., Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas (just to mention the "A" team), who discussed, accepted, and affirmed truths wherever they were discovered. How else to commend the Christian faith to educated people today? Commending "crusader discipleship" and the ideology/theology that supports it are contrary to the Christian faith and counter-productive in the mission to non-Christians, e.g., those who are students in a university like the one in which I teach.

I obviously agree with your point about AC VI. I just think it is difficult to square what is taught there with the historic crusader ideology that praises the killing of infidels in the name of Christ and that rejoices in the (re)-taking of property and turf for the sake of the church's earthly power and glory.

BTW, our local sports reporter, Paul Oren, who also teaches communications at Valpo, didn't like my suggestions for a new mascot (although he respectfully took note of a few of them in a recent article he wrote for the "NW Indiana Times," in addition to another article he wrote on the decision to change the mascot, in which he quoted yours truly). His top three: The Valpo Shield, the Valpo Golden Knights, and the Valpo DuneHawks.  I could live with the first or the third, but I still favor the Valpo Flash or the Valpo Lightning.

Matt Becker

Randy Bosch

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #171 on: March 01, 2021, 01:56:28 PM »
Stay with me here...
Historians are (and may forever be) uncertain about the actual origins of "Germanic" peoples.
Most agree that the "Franks" were first known to migrate from the area now known as Denmark/Schlesweig-Holstein (before then, who knows?) into the currently known northwest Germany, then areas now known as Holland/The Netherlands, Belgium, then into what is now known as France, then into a takeover of a sizeable portion of the Italian peninsula.
Most agree that the "Lombards" were first known to migrate from the area now referred to as of Scandanavia (before then, who knows?), then into what is now known as Hungary, then into what is now known as Northern Italy, then into a takeover of a sizeable portion of the Italian peninsula.  Does this make the Italians actually Germanic?

Most other "peoples" have migrated here and there over time, often using military force to take over pre-existing peoples lands, sometimes driving out their predecessors, sometimes assimilating over time.
Most often, the people conquered had conquered the people before them, etc. ad nauseum.

Remember Abraham was from Ur, not the Jordan River Valley or coastal Palestine.
Some Chicago style pizza recipes arrived with Italian immigrants who may have descended from the Franks or Lombards or others in their homelands in Italy. Does that make Chicago style pizza either Germanic or an import from a militaristic people?

However, to make a long story slightly more relevant, since Valparaiso University occupies land that, at least in the recorded part of North American history, was the home of the Potawatomi, perhaps Valparaiso would best be renamed Potawatomi University, and their descendants petitioned to provide a culturally appropriate team name....

Back to your Neo-Lutheran cultural wars...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 02:34:15 PM by Randy Bosch »

Dave Benke

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #172 on: March 02, 2021, 08:56:05 AM »
Stay with me here...
Historians are (and may forever be) uncertain about the actual origins of "Germanic" peoples.
Most agree that the "Franks" were first known to migrate from the area now known as Denmark/Schlesweig-Holstein (before then, who knows?) into the currently known northwest Germany, then areas now known as Holland/The Netherlands, Belgium, then into what is now known as France, then into a takeover of a sizeable portion of the Italian peninsula.
Most agree that the "Lombards" were first known to migrate from the area now referred to as of Scandanavia (before then, who knows?), then into what is now known as Hungary, then into what is now known as Northern Italy, then into a takeover of a sizeable portion of the Italian peninsula.  Does this make the Italians actually Germanic?

Most other "peoples" have migrated here and there over time, often using military force to take over pre-existing peoples lands, sometimes driving out their predecessors, sometimes assimilating over time.
Most often, the people conquered had conquered the people before them, etc. ad nauseum.

Remember Abraham was from Ur, not the Jordan River Valley or coastal Palestine.
Some Chicago style pizza recipes arrived with Italian immigrants who may have descended from the Franks or Lombards or others in their homelands in Italy. Does that make Chicago style pizza either Germanic or an import from a militaristic people?

However, to make a long story slightly more relevant, since Valparaiso University occupies land that, at least in the recorded part of North American history, was the home of the Potawatomi, perhaps Valparaiso would best be renamed Potawatomi University, and their descendants petitioned to provide a culturally appropriate team name....

Back to your Neo-Lutheran cultural wars...

Nice work, Randy - I was thinking about the Germanic concept and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, and of course the various Scandi-Vikings.  All were also called barbarians, not having been civilized at the end of the Roman empire, which was corrupt anyway, but by then Christian.  Many of the Germanics had been catechized by the followers of Arius, so were not only deemed lawless but also heretics. 

The Potawatomi did purchase my own personal home institution, Concordia Prep and College in Milwaukee, and make it a cultural center.  That's located only a few blocks from Marquette University, which changed its name some years ago from the Warriors to the Golden Eagles.  If the Potawatomi heritage holds at Valpo, then I would suggest the team mascot be The Gold Coin, based on casino income, or the Sure Bets, or the Wheels.

Dave Benke

peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #173 on: March 02, 2021, 09:11:31 AM »
Someone suggested VU be the Kernels, which would play into the "Home of Orville Redenbacher" and Popcornfest themes, also speak to learning being sowing seeds, and would be pronounced the same as Colonels, for a nice military connection for the sake of the sports teams. I suspect there would be a fair amount of Colonel Klink humor, though, assuming that too doesn't get banned. The bookstore could sell VU monocles.

The real key is to choose a new mascot every year, sort of like a yearbook theme. That way you never, ever have to face the disgrace of having a mascot someone disapproves of, because by the time they gathered their petitions the name would be changing again anyway. You could also introduce yourself by the mascot of your graduating year. "I'm Pete, of the Brown Giants of '92." "Hi Pete, I'm Bob. Why would your class mock those who suffer from giantism?" 

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #174 on: March 02, 2021, 12:36:47 PM »
Someone suggested VU be the Kernels, which would play into the "Home of Orville Redenbacher" and Popcornfest themes, also speak to learning being sowing seeds, and would be pronounced the same as Colonels, for a nice military connection for the sake of the sports teams. I suspect there would be a fair amount of Colonel Klink humor, though, assuming that too doesn't get banned. The bookstore could sell VU monocles.

The real key is to choose a new mascot every year, sort of like a yearbook theme. That way you never, ever have to face the disgrace of having a mascot someone disapproves of, because by the time they gathered their petitions the name would be changing again anyway. You could also introduce yourself by the mascot of your graduating year. "I'm Pete, of the Brown Giants of '92." "Hi Pete, I'm Bob. Why would your class mock those who suffer from giantism?"


The Kernels is the nickname of Mitchell High School in Mitchell, SD. https://www.themitchellkernels.com/


For those who may not know it, Mitchell is also the home of the Corn Palace. https://cornpalace.com/


I had a member in a congregation who was "The Kernel" (the high school mascot).
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Dave Benke

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #175 on: March 02, 2021, 12:55:47 PM »
Someone suggested VU be the Kernels, which would play into the "Home of Orville Redenbacher" and Popcornfest themes, also speak to learning being sowing seeds, and would be pronounced the same as Colonels, for a nice military connection for the sake of the sports teams. I suspect there would be a fair amount of Colonel Klink humor, though, assuming that too doesn't get banned. The bookstore could sell VU monocles.

The real key is to choose a new mascot every year, sort of like a yearbook theme. That way you never, ever have to face the disgrace of having a mascot someone disapproves of, because by the time they gathered their petitions the name would be changing again anyway. You could also introduce yourself by the mascot of your graduating year. "I'm Pete, of the Brown Giants of '92." "Hi Pete, I'm Bob. Why would your class mock those who suffer from giantism?"


The Kernels is the nickname of Mitchell High School in Mitchell, SD. https://www.themitchellkernels.com/


For those who may not know it, Mitchell is also the home of the Corn Palace. https://cornpalace.com/


I had a member in a congregation who was "The Kernel" (the high school mascot).

After a little online check, it turns out the Kernel has a name  - Cornelius (get it?) - and is a winking Kernel voted the best mascot in South Dakota.   A veggie mascot also works with the Lutheran connective tissue to Veggie-tales. 

Dave Benke

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #176 on: March 02, 2021, 07:19:10 PM »
Don't know if they still exist but the Cedar Rapids Kernels were a Class A minor league team.  I think they still are but I know that covid hasn't been kind to the minor leagues. 

I kind of hope that VU does pick the Kernels as a name because then the Cedar Rapids Kernels could charge them for the name and then keep the team afloat while fans aren't allowed into the games. 

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #177 on: March 02, 2021, 07:30:37 PM »
Some other unique mascots I've run into. Yuma High School students are known as "the criminals." From 1910-1913 the high school met at the abandoned territorial prison in Yuma. An opposing team started calling them "criminals" and the name stuck. It became official in 1917. (The high school is older than the state. Arizona's statehood came in 1912, the last of the coterminous states to enter the union.)

Yuba City High School are "the Honkers." Named for the Canadian Geese that migrate over the city each season.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #178 on: March 02, 2021, 07:46:27 PM »
Some other unique mascots I've run into. Yuma High School students are known as "the criminals." From 1910-1913 the high school met at the abandoned territorial prison in Yuma. An opposing team started calling them "criminals" and the name stuck. It became official in 1917. (The high school is older than the state. Arizona's statehood came in 1912, the last of the coterminous states to enter the union.)

Yuba City High School are "the Honkers." Named for the Canadian Geese that migrate over the city each season.
Criminals, that's fine. Pirates. Vikings. Just so long as it isn't Crusaders. They're beyond redemption.

Dave Benke

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Re: Valpo mascot task force
« Reply #179 on: March 02, 2021, 07:48:31 PM »
Don't know if they still exist but the Cedar Rapids Kernels were a Class A minor league team.  I think they still are but I know that covid hasn't been kind to the minor leagues. 

I kind of hope that VU does pick the Kernels as a name because then the Cedar Rapids Kernels could charge them for the name and then keep the team afloat while fans aren't allowed into the games. 

Jeremy

So here's the deal for oldster baseball fans in NY Metro.  We have a Mets team in Brooklyn - the Cyclones; and a Yankee team in Staten Island - the Yankees, and an independent team on Long Island - the Ducks, plus the two teams playing at those big stadiums in Queens and the Bronx.  Plus a team in Dutchess County about an hour north.

The Cyclones are by far the best bet for the money because they're on Coney Island (a part of Brooklyn) and you get the rides (including the Cyclone), and the Nathan's hot dogs, and normally fireworks at the end, and a ton of giveaways, and a cheap ticket right near the beach on a summer night.  Ambience is unmatchable, really.   Lots of regulars. 

The Mets - we have a partial season ticket package, so with the small percentage of fans allowed they're telling us we may see some games from seats somewhere inside the stadium at some time.  Hello?  We've already paid for those tickets LAST year.  Get those shots in those arms, Joe Biden!  We're hoping to see maybe half the games we paid for.  But they have given us all-device access to the games on TV, for whatever that's worth.  I think the minors will by and large make it. 

When it comes to mascots, one of the Mets latest additions had always worn the number 00(Zero), but when he found out Mr. Met had the number he agreed not to wear it and took 99.  Mr. Met has 00.  In other words, Mr. Met the Mascot received the privilege given to a hall of fame player.   That, my friends, is a powerful mascot.  In fact, one of my buddies who is a dead-bang, dead-wrong Yankee fan told me that he had lost his children to the Mets.  What?  How?  They want to see Mr. Met, was the answer.  He's their guy.  They love him.

I should state for the record that my wife and I have photos taken with Mr. and Mrs. Met, which are are right there next to our Mets Bobblehead Collection, which is next to the Atlantic District Praesidium Bobbleheads - me and my two homeboys.  Yes, mascots do count for something.

Dave Benke