Author Topic: LCMS Inc 2020 Report  (Read 41181 times)

FrPeters

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #435 on: February 06, 2021, 11:31:28 AM »
Quote
A great book I read at the onset of this is titled “Analog Church”. HIs thesis, to a degree is, “digital church informs and analog church transforms.”

Exactly.  We had a discussion among pastors and one fellow complained that we were trying too hard to make folks Lutheran and just needed to give them Jesus.  Except that the Jesus we give them lives in Words that address the person, in water that splashes over the head, in absolution to the souls crying out in confession, and in bread and wine in which we eat and drink the flesh and blood of Christ.  You cannot bring people to Jesus and leave them without the blessing and benefit of this personal sacramental life around the Word and Table of the Lord.  If that Word informs then it will lead them to the place where they will be transformed or else something is wrong.  In Acts, even with mighty St. Paul, the preaching leads to baptism. 
Fr Larry Peters
Grace LCMS, Clarksville, TN
http://www.pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/

D. Engebretson

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #436 on: February 06, 2021, 11:32:50 AM »
I have fully adopted a digital online presence for my congregation.  Our Sunday services are faithfully live streamed each week, and with a few exceptions where I am tied up with Zoom meetings and other commitments, I also provide a live streamed devotion on FB that lasts for about 15 minutes every morning.  To supplement that we mail out a number of my sermons to others who have no access to the internet.  In some cases more savvy adult children have found ways to provide the live streamed service for their very elderly members, two of which are either over 100 or approaching that age. 

I realize that the online thing is here to stay in one form or another (and will be a tool not just for shut-ins, but as we have discovered in the great white north, an option for severe weather days).  But I have come to appreciate that for many Christians it will never substitute for the incarnational aspect of worship.  And by that I mean more than just the Lord's Supper, although that is clearly an incarnational high point.  The body of Christ, like all human relationships, was not designed to be 'virtual' or 'remote.' Yes, our forefathers in years past wrote many letters, their form of virtual/remote communication.  But Christians always have treasured the aspect of real-time, in-person community.  That must predominate when this crisis has abated.   
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Dave Benke

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #437 on: February 06, 2021, 11:40:14 AM »
Many LCMS churches in Indiana have made a few common sense adjustment to the sanctuary for the sake of distancing and then just gone ahead with church like normal this whole time. Some wear masks, some don't, but they don't have to sit near one another. I know of several that offer common cup communion and have been all along. They offer worship to those who can gather and they visit those who can't. I doubt they'll see postponing conventions as a priority.

 

That's what we did - a whole bunch of common sense sanctuary adjustments in terms of seating as to the limits set by the state for percentages.  But also with health components - mandatory masks, no fellowship hour, temperature taken at door, sanitizer, and, not insignificantly, individual cup only in the containers.  When this is over or on the downside, we will offer common cup, but I think there will be few takers.  Because of the fellowship hour loss, a parishioner set up her own food truck outside the church for 3 months, with individually packaged Caribbean specialties for all, satisfying the need to feed.

Dave Benke

Steven W Bohler

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #438 on: February 06, 2021, 11:49:45 AM »
Many LCMS churches in Indiana have made a few common sense adjustment to the sanctuary for the sake of distancing and then just gone ahead with church like normal this whole time. Some wear masks, some don't, but they don't have to sit near one another. I know of several that offer common cup communion and have been all along. They offer worship to those who can gather and they visit those who can't. I doubt they'll see postponing conventions as a priority.

 

That's what we did - a whole bunch of common sense sanctuary adjustments in terms of seating as to the limits set by the state for percentages.  But also with health components - mandatory masks, no fellowship hour, temperature taken at door, sanitizer, and, not insignificantly, individual cup only in the containers.  When this is over or on the downside, we will offer common cup, but I think there will be few takers.  Because of the fellowship hour loss, a parishioner set up her own food truck outside the church for 3 months, with individually packaged Caribbean specialties for all, satisfying the need to feed.

Dave Benke

Is the parishioner with the food truck donating the food or charging? 

mariemeyer

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #439 on: February 06, 2021, 12:26:22 PM »
The Atlantic District is completely in favor of the delay at the leadership/Board level, as far as I've heard, along with every congregation that I know of, all around the issue of the safety of parishioners.  For that reason, we have had repeated Zoom meetings with pastors and leaders initiated by Bp. Lecakes on following the state guidelines for worship attendance and church opening/closing, wearing masks, taking other safety precautions in worship and enrolling vulnerable parishioners (at this time) for the vaccine. 

I wonder in the context of this push to have the conventions if there's a correlation with the two other surrounding issues - wearing of masks/PPP/safety precautions and state mandates on houses of worship.

Here there has been almost zero pushback on safety precautions at the local level.  There are no "anti-masker" leaders trying to force their views in who gets into the church building.  And there are to my knowledge no congregations harboring resentment or pushing the envelope on the mandated house of worship restrictions.  And without question, the overwhelming vote from here is going to be to delay the convention(s). 

Is there a correlation the other way when it comes to the "don't delay, convene today" voters?  AND - we don't need no masks, and we will bring out however many we want to our services? Is that a thing?

Dave Benke

Of course.  Because everywhere is the same as NYC and its environs.  Because everyone who fails to see the need for delay is automatically an "anti-masker" (ooh, it must be bad because you have a label for it!).  Because if one does not agree that worship services everywhere must be banned (even if there is not the need locally) then one MUST be full of "resentment" and "pushing the envelope".

Honestly, Dr. Benke, you New Yorkers are THE most self-centered, egotistical folks in the world.

I do not understand why the above was not censured.

Prof David Scaer is a native New Yorker and was the late Herman Otten Sr. and Pr. Walter Otten.  For the record,. the late Rev Prof. Kurt Marquart became a New Yorker when he arrived in NYC as a DP from Eastern New York.  He attended Concordia, Bronxville.

The ALPB has is roots in New York City. The majority of ALPB Board Members have been New Yorkers, I think of the late Prof. Ruth Zerner, PhD in Reformation History, long time member of the Board and financial supporter of the ALPB.  Ruth and I were members of St. Matthew, Manhattan, attended the same NYC Hunter College High School for girls, she went on to be a professor of NYC Hunter College. She was among the most gifted self-giving woman I had the privilege of knowing.

Think of ALPB men who served as pastors in New York... Glenn Stone,, Richard Koenig, Richard John Neuhaus, Fred Schumacher, Adolf Meyer, and Ted Wittrock, the list goes on.  Many served as inner city pastors in congregations where they and their wives gave selflessly to support the ministries of their husbands. 

I respectfully request that the statement "Honestly, Dr. Benke, you New Yorkers are THE most self-centered, egotistical folks in the world." be removed from this Forum.


Marie Otten Meyer


Dave Likeness

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #440 on: February 06, 2021, 12:31:27 PM »
The woman with the food truck belonged to the parish's LWML.
This was her 3 month mission project and she accepted donations
which went to the LWML project in Central America.

FrPeters

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #441 on: February 06, 2021, 01:44:22 PM »
I detest individual cups and have introduced the chalice to both parishes I have served (which had only the individual cups) and one of the great sorrows I have over this pandemic is the idea that the chalice will either die or be used by fewer and fewer.  My issue with individual cups has as much to do with the fact that few churches ablute the cups and dispose of what remains in them properly, much less the visual of seeing some who actually have garbage cans by the rail for people to ditch their own.  What does that say to our theology?  I gave my parish an ultimatum.  Either every individual cup must be abluted and the water and what remains in those cups poured down a piscina or no cups.  There were grumbles but they finally treated the cups appropriately to our theology of the real presence.  Though we did nothing but subtle teaching, we saw half our people switch to the chalice.  Now we are down to about a quarter of the congregation receiving from the chalice and I fear it will be hard to restore the former numbers and the momentum.  Furthermore, the fact that individual cups are used in parishes that have no theology of the real presence only encourages our people to believe that the communion received in Protestant congregations is the same as Lutheran.  It does not help that now we have hermetically sealed mini-chalices with wine and a crumb of bread -- further encouraging the idea that the cup is not safe.
Fr Larry Peters
Grace LCMS, Clarksville, TN
http://www.pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/

Weedon

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #442 on: February 06, 2021, 02:01:51 PM »
I may be off, but it looks to me like we still have a majority receiving from the chalice. And as I noted before, among them most of our health care workers! Oh, and at our weekday masses, there are no individual cups at all. And our pastor, who drinks from the chalice after everyone else has communed by consuming whatever is leftover of our Lord’s blood, has not even come down with COVID at all.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 02:39:33 PM by Weedon »

Steven W Bohler

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #443 on: February 06, 2021, 02:53:38 PM »
The Atlantic District is completely in favor of the delay at the leadership/Board level, as far as I've heard, along with every congregation that I know of, all around the issue of the safety of parishioners.  For that reason, we have had repeated Zoom meetings with pastors and leaders initiated by Bp. Lecakes on following the state guidelines for worship attendance and church opening/closing, wearing masks, taking other safety precautions in worship and enrolling vulnerable parishioners (at this time) for the vaccine. 

I wonder in the context of this push to have the conventions if there's a correlation with the two other surrounding issues - wearing of masks/PPP/safety precautions and state mandates on houses of worship.

Here there has been almost zero pushback on safety precautions at the local level.  There are no "anti-masker" leaders trying to force their views in who gets into the church building.  And there are to my knowledge no congregations harboring resentment or pushing the envelope on the mandated house of worship restrictions.  And without question, the overwhelming vote from here is going to be to delay the convention(s). 

Is there a correlation the other way when it comes to the "don't delay, convene today" voters?  AND - we don't need no masks, and we will bring out however many we want to our services? Is that a thing?

Dave Benke

Of course.  Because everywhere is the same as NYC and its environs.  Because everyone who fails to see the need for delay is automatically an "anti-masker" (ooh, it must be bad because you have a label for it!).  Because if one does not agree that worship services everywhere must be banned (even if there is not the need locally) then one MUST be full of "resentment" and "pushing the envelope".

Honestly, Dr. Benke, you New Yorkers are THE most self-centered, egotistical folks in the world.

I do not understand why the above was not censured.

Prof David Scaer is a native New Yorker and was the late Herman Otten Sr. and Pr. Walter Otten.  For the record,. the late Rev Prof. Kurt Marquart became a New Yorker when he arrived in NYC as a DP from Eastern New York.  He attended Concordia, Bronxville.

The ALPB has is roots in New York City. The majority of ALPB Board Members have been New Yorkers, I think of the late Prof. Ruth Zerner, PhD in Reformation History, long time member of the Board and financial supporter of the ALPB.  Ruth and I were members of St. Matthew, Manhattan, attended the same NYC Hunter College High School for girls, she went on to be a professor of NYC Hunter College. She was among the most gifted self-giving woman I had the privilege of knowing.

Think of ALPB men who served as pastors in New York... Glenn Stone,, Richard Koenig, Richard John Neuhaus, Fred Schumacher, Adolf Meyer, and Ted Wittrock, the list goes on.  Many served as inner city pastors in congregations where they and their wives gave selflessly to support the ministries of their husbands. 

I respectfully request that the statement "Honestly, Dr. Benke, you New Yorkers are THE most self-centered, egotistical folks in the world." be removed from this Forum.


Marie Otten Meyer

1. Perhaps you missed, but on another thread I said maybe I owed New Yorkers an apology as the folks in California apparently are just as self-centered and egotistical.  So there is that.

2. If it will make you feel any better, I am willing to amend my statement to "Honestly, Dr. Benke, you New Yorkers seem to me to be the most self-centered, egotistical folks in the world".  Or even "Honestly, Dr. Benke, you New Yorkers -- along with Californians -- seem to me to be the most self-centered, egotistical folks in the world."  Would either of those satisfy you?

3. Maybe you don't see it, but I think that there is more than a little humor in a New Yorker getting all bent out of shape over someone daring to criticize New Yorkers for being self-centered (and, I might add, self-important).

Steven W Bohler

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #444 on: February 06, 2021, 02:55:08 PM »
The woman with the food truck belonged to the parish's LWML.
This was her 3 month mission project and she accepted donations
which went to the LWML project in Central America.

May I ask where you learned this?  Not that I am doubting you or your report, but I am surprised that you would know the answer (don't you live in Illinois?).

Weedon

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Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« Reply #445 on: February 07, 2021, 10:37:51 AM »
I counted this morning at 8 am service. 5/6 communicants received still from the chalice.