Author Topic: Not about the election...  (Read 29542 times)

mariemeyer

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #345 on: December 17, 2020, 03:53:06 PM »
My question was poorly phrased.   I am interested in knowing whether Peter, or others on this Forum, are persuaded that the extend of fraud in the 2020 election was responsible for President Trump not being re-elected. Related to this is whether there any evidence that fraud was organized? If so? By whom?

If fraud is the reason for President Trump not being re-elected, are there any options that have not yet been pursued in
disqualifying Joe Biden as President elect.

The ultimate question: What will it take for President elect Biden to take office with persons who voted for Trump being out to accept Joe Biden as having been elected by a majority of Americans?

Marie Meyer

Weedon

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #346 on: December 17, 2020, 04:01:02 PM »
I can’t speak for Peter, but I (who voted for Trump) certainly accept Joe Biden as the next President of the United States. Do I believe that fraud was committed? Beyond shadow of doubt. Do I believe it would have turned the election? None of us has any way of knowing, but we should all have a vested interest in insuring that it does not happen so readily in elections of the future. May God bless President-Elect Biden and may He lead him in the way of truth and justice for all peoples. (Which, I cannot help but note, is far, far more than the left ever granted toward our current President...I doubt you’ll see any of us out there with chants of “not my president!”)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 04:02:39 PM by Weedon »

D. Engebretson

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #347 on: December 17, 2020, 04:16:22 PM »
My question was poorly phrased.   I am interested in knowing whether Peter, or others on this Forum, are persuaded that the extend of fraud in the 2020 election was responsible for President Trump not being re-elected. Related to this is whether there any evidence that fraud was organized? If so? By whom?

If fraud is the reason for President Trump not being re-elected, are there any options that have not yet been pursued in
disqualifying Joe Biden as President elect.

The ultimate question: What will it take for President elect Biden to take office with persons who voted for Trump being out to accept Joe Biden as having been elected by a majority of Americans?

Marie Meyer

As one who voted for Trump as well, I accept the election of President-elect Biden.  Do I think fraud was committed?  As some have pointed out there is some fraud in every election.  Whether it rose to the level of making a difference in the outcome of the election, I also have no way of knowing.  My great concern centers around the much greater use of mail-in ballots due to the pandemic and what issues that may have caused.  This was out of the ordinary.  Not the use of mail-in ballots, per se, but the extent to which they were employed.  I would like to see a study conducted that thoroughly examines how mail-in balloting was done in this unique election - how the various parties encouraged it, what exceptions were made because of this method, what potential problems arise in their use including counting and verifying, etc.  I think that encouraging such a study by Biden would be a great first step in encouraging the healing he often mentions. 
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #348 on: December 17, 2020, 05:12:59 PM »
I can’t speak for Peter, but I (who voted for Trump) certainly accept Joe Biden as the next President of the United States. Do I believe that fraud was committed? Beyond shadow of doubt. Do I believe it would have turned the election? None of us has any way of knowing, but we should all have a vested interest in insuring that it does not happen so readily in elections of the future. May God bless President-Elect Biden and may He lead him in the way of truth and justice for all peoples. (Which, I cannot help but note, is far, far more than the left ever granted toward our current President...I doubt you’ll see any of us out there with chants of “not my president!”)

Ah yes, the call for unity and healing.   ::)

https://politicalwire.com/2020/12/16/im-not-saying-theyre-not-a-bunch-of-fuckers/

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/530555-biden-spokeswoman-defends-incoming-deputy-chief-of-staffs-point-in-spicy

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-defends-biden-deputy-chief-staff  (Why does it seem that Hillary nearly always misses the point?)
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Charles Austin

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #349 on: December 17, 2020, 05:13:55 PM »
Marie writes:
I am interested in knowing whether Peter, or others on this Forum, are persuaded that the extend of fraud in the 2020 election was responsible for President Trump not being re-elected. Related to this is whether there any evidence that fraud was organized? If so? By whom?

I comment:
Marie, I have no doubt that there were some invalid ballots cast. There are always invalid ballots cast for a lot of reasons: human error, misunderstanding about things like signatures, counter error (maybe a stack gets counted twice), and cheating.
That is not what has been discussed since the election. The allegations were that there was massive, intentional, programmed, organized, widespread and successful efforts to
1) turn Trump ballots into Biden ballots,
2) not count Trump ballots, or
3) otherwise skew the counting or reporting or paperwork so that Biden would win in places where the voters actually gave Trump the win.
Of these allegations, raised in dozens of lawsuits, mentioned in dozens of unverified "affidavits," and most of all foghorn-blasted daily by the President and his closest advisors and followers, no one anywhere has provided proof that would stand the test of being evidential.
I have asked before: How could such a massive fraud have been engineered and operated?
I have asked before: Where is the evidence?
I have asked before: How could this have been pulled off without leaks or detection?
What do I get in response?
"It doesn't seem possible."
"This count or this situation doesn't make sense to me."
"I've got statistics (or projections, or some data-crunching) that shows...."
   Alas, some people with fanatically loyal followers have the charism of Mouth Power and are able to keep declaring as true what is not true.
   Others, when all attempts to prove the allegations have failed, are morally bankrupt enough to pretend they think the allegations are true because it will win them support in certain circles or among certain segments of their constituencies.
   Each of these always-Trumpers is, I am sad to say, like Macbeth's cynical image of "Life", that is, a "walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more."
   To again borrow Macbeth's words, their idiot-told tales are, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 05:16:36 PM by Charles Austin »
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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #350 on: December 17, 2020, 05:29:31 PM »
   To again borrow Macbeth's words, their idiot-told tales are, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Then ignore them. Please. Seriously. Ignore them.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #351 on: December 17, 2020, 05:31:05 PM »
Good grief!
Life’ s too short. This post goes. Don’t need the mewling.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 05:50:10 PM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

Coach-Rev

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #352 on: December 17, 2020, 06:15:48 PM »
Do I believe the fraud this time around was enough to affect the outcome?  Yes.  (I'm an independent BTW)

Here's one of many summaries as to why:  https://rumble.com/vbcec1-voter-fraud-compiliation.html

the most damning evidence that has not satisfactorily been explained are the security footage of boxes of ballots being counted in GA by only 4 people, Dominion machine issues in both MI and now also AZ, Audits of voter rolls that do not match up, and the actual TV election night footage of vote totals switching on TV - one of the first items in the video.  That is to say nothing of a guy who inspires no enthusiasm, who hid in his basement most of the campaign cycle, somehow massively outperforming the most popular Democratic president - Obama?  And all this while Trump still garnered the most votes ever in election history, except for Biden?

At the very least, there are significant, serious problems that call the election results into doubt.  None of these have been satisfactorily explained, and the Facebook "fact check' sites themselves are known to have extreme left bias.

and then there's this:  https://www.scribd.com/document/488495896/Navarro-Report
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 07:36:58 PM by Coach-Rev »
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James S. Rustad

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #353 on: December 17, 2020, 08:07:35 PM »
I voted for Trump.  Was there fraud?  Sure, but I doubt there was enough fraud to have changed the outcome of the election.

RogerMartim

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #354 on: December 17, 2020, 08:35:37 PM »
What was this massive fraud that turned the election in President-Elect Biden's favor by ? Giuliani and the Kracken (I can't remember her name), and all the other attorneys for Trump went to 50 or so different courts alleging fraud. The judges all said, "OK, what have you got?" None, none of them could come up with anything. Christopher Krebs, the U.S. election and cybersecurity official and a Republican, said that it was the most secure election ever and he got fired by Trump. How on earth do you fudge with 7,000,000 votes that Biden got over Trump?

Dave Benke

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #355 on: December 17, 2020, 08:52:45 PM »
Hard for me to believe that Dr. Biden is pretentious. For eight years as the Second Lady, she taught English in a community college instead of doing "Second Lady stuff." I hope her students came out able to write. I've met far too many college graduates who cannot.    :(

Peace, JOHN

Thanks, John - that's my problem with the National Review attempted smack-down, which comes across as preening and elitist.  One of the things we encourage in church workers is what - continuing education.  And the point of that is to be a lifelong learner better equipped to meet the people you serve.  In Dr. Biden's case, those she served for three decades were students - high school and jr. college students in particular.  We (Atlantic District ) encouraged our church workers, pastors and teachers, to go on for additional degrees or certifications and assisted with the tuition where needed.  Dr. Biden went on for her certification.  That's commendable.  Simple.

Dave Benke

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #356 on: December 17, 2020, 09:29:06 PM »
Hard for me to believe that Dr. Biden is pretentious. For eight years as the Second Lady, she taught English in a community college instead of doing "Second Lady stuff." I hope her students came out able to write. I've met far too many college graduates who cannot.    :(

Peace, JOHN

Thanks, John - that's my problem with the National Review attempted smack-down, which comes across as preening and elitist.  One of the things we encourage in church workers is what - continuing education.  And the point of that is to be a lifelong learner better equipped to meet the people you serve.  In Dr. Biden's case, those she served for three decades were students - high school and jr. college students in particular.  We (Atlantic District ) encouraged our church workers, pastors and teachers, to go on for additional degrees or certifications and assisted with the tuition where needed.  Dr. Biden went on for her certification.  That's commendable.  Simple.

Dave Benke
The problem is that this isn’t the attitude the press brings to Republicans. If everyone with a degree is a doctor, fine. But if Biden were a conservative Republican, it wouldn’t be National Review, it would have been the NYT doing the smack down.

Charles Austin

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #357 on: December 17, 2020, 09:42:29 PM »
Pastor Cottingham:
The most damning evidence that has not satisfactorily been explained are the security footage of boxes of ballots being counted in GA by only 4 people, Dominion machine issues in both MI and now also AZ, Audits of voter rolls that do not match up, and the actual TV election night footage of vote totals switching on TV - one of the first items in the video. 
Me:
I’m sure I saw explanations for these things. Maybe you didn’t.

Pastor Cottingham
That is to say nothing of a guy who inspires no enthusiasm, who hid in his basement most of the campaign cycle, somehow massively outperforming the most popular Democratic president - Obama?  And all this while Trump still garnered the most votes ever in election history, except for Biden?
Me:
Hogwash. Those of us who voted for him were very enthusiastic. We were also proud that he did not have huge super spreader campaign rallies. He was not hiding in his basement. He was showing some concern for the citizens of this country. As for “outperforming,“ how hard is it to understand that simply more people voted this time than ever before.
But you correctly note the most important thing. In the balloting  for president, your guy was number two. Number one wins. Gets to be president.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 09:44:23 PM by Charles Austin »
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Dave Benke

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #358 on: December 18, 2020, 08:49:12 AM »
Hard for me to believe that Dr. Biden is pretentious. For eight years as the Second Lady, she taught English in a community college instead of doing "Second Lady stuff." I hope her students came out able to write. I've met far too many college graduates who cannot.    :(

Peace, JOHN

Thanks, John - that's my problem with the National Review attempted smack-down, which comes across as preening and elitist.  One of the things we encourage in church workers is what - continuing education.  And the point of that is to be a lifelong learner better equipped to meet the people you serve.  In Dr. Biden's case, those she served for three decades were students - high school and jr. college students in particular.  We (Atlantic District ) encouraged our church workers, pastors and teachers, to go on for additional degrees or certifications and assisted with the tuition where needed.  Dr. Biden went on for her certification.  That's commendable.  Simple.

Dave Benke
The problem is that this isn’t the attitude the press brings to Republicans. If everyone with a degree is a doctor, fine. But if Biden were a conservative Republican, it wouldn’t be National Review, it would have been the NYT doing the smack down.

Everyone with an earned degree from an accredited institution at the level of doctorate is a doctor.  The National Review article was both elitist and petty, from whichever party its author hails.



Dave Benke


David Garner

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Re: Not about the election...
« Reply #359 on: December 18, 2020, 08:52:25 AM »
Hard for me to believe that Dr. Biden is pretentious. For eight years as the Second Lady, she taught English in a community college instead of doing "Second Lady stuff." I hope her students came out able to write. I've met far too many college graduates who cannot.    :(

Peace, JOHN

Thanks, John - that's my problem with the National Review attempted smack-down, which comes across as preening and elitist.  One of the things we encourage in church workers is what - continuing education.  And the point of that is to be a lifelong learner better equipped to meet the people you serve.  In Dr. Biden's case, those she served for three decades were students - high school and jr. college students in particular.  We (Atlantic District ) encouraged our church workers, pastors and teachers, to go on for additional degrees or certifications and assisted with the tuition where needed.  Dr. Biden went on for her certification.  That's commendable.  Simple.

Dave Benke

For what it's worth, I think complaining about referring to Mrs. Biden as "Dr. Jill Biden" is silly.

But I also note that a whole lot of news publications neglect to refer to Ben Carson, a neurosurgeon, by his honorific title.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/ben-carson-covid-diagnosis-update/index.html

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-health-ben-carson-coronavirus-pandemic-0de7a6146af55ffbb43bd85d3a7039b2

So I do share the views of those who suggest Dr. Biden is being honored beyond her place, or alternatively, that people like Dr. Ben Carson are too often not given the same honor (take your pick).
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).