Author Topic: Lutheran ethnic origins  (Read 1045 times)

Jeremy_Loesch

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2020, 01:50:36 PM »
Professor Edmund Smits at Luther Seminary belonged to a Latvian congregation in Minneapolis.

There is a Slovak Synod in the ELCA, if I am not mistaken.

Peace,
Michael

There is the Slovak district in the LCMS and a Finnish group merged into the LCMS in the 1950s as well.

The NELC (Finnish) merged with the LCMS in 1964.  Since their pastors were being trained at Springfield Seminary, it was JAO Preus who welcomed them.

What did NELC stand for?

Jeremy

jebutler

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2020, 02:14:59 PM »
Professor Edmund Smits at Luther Seminary belonged to a Latvian congregation in Minneapolis.

There is a Slovak Synod in the ELCA, if I am not mistaken.

Peace,
Michael

There is the Slovak district in the LCMS and a Finnish group merged into the LCMS in the 1950s as well.

The NELC (Finnish) merged with the LCMS in 1964.  Since their pastors were being trained at Springfield Seminary, it was JAO Preus who welcomed them.

What did NELC stand for?

Jeremy

National Evangelical Lutheran Church

We have several of those congregations in New England.

One of the reasons the SELC was worried about their churches merging into geographical districts is because the NELC churches lost their identity in their merger.
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

Pr. Terry Culler

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2020, 02:22:26 PM »
The AFLC came into being in 1962 when most of the Lutheran Free Church merged into The American Lutheran Church.  From what I've heard the almost 10 year process was filled with nasty and down right mean actions--probably by both sides but I've only heard one side of it.  The LFC began in 1897 when the new Norwegian Synod decided to keep Augsburg Seminary as the designated seminary but St. Olaf as the church undergraduate school. This led to the formation of the Friends of Augsburg Seminary which became the LFC.  The process of formation at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th seems to have kept the entire Lutheran Church in this country in constant turmoil. 
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mj4

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2020, 03:51:14 PM »
Germany did not have a state church like Scandinavian Countries, but each prince decided whether his territory would be Roman Catholic or Lutheran, and later, Reformed entered the mix.

Not all Lutherans came from Lutheran lands. The Salzburgers, for example, were expelled from the Catholic Archbishopric of Salzburg, Austria, and settled in Georgia and South Carolina. I guess you could put them in the Old German camp though.

Paul O Malley

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2020, 07:26:54 PM »
At least until late in the last century some took a finer point on ethnic origin in Fort Wayne. Some of the members of one of the downtown Lutheran congregations we visited on our arrival made it clear they were not merely German but "Swabian". That distinction had led them in the late 19th century to move from Missouri to the old Ohio Synod. There they could find pastors who spoke the correct dialect.
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Julio

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2020, 02:53:48 AM »
A review of the history of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod lists the following church bodies that were ‘absorbed’ over time ...

1880 - Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Illinois and other States (German)

1886 - Evangelical Lutheran Concordia Synod of Pennsylvania and other States (German)

1911 - English Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri and other States

1961 - Synodical Conference Negro Mission

1964 - National Evangelical Lutheran Church (Finnish American)

1971 - Synod of Evangelical Lutheran Churches (Slovak Synod)

Unmentioned thus far are our Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod brethren ... of German background who are in fellowship with the Evangelical Lutheran Synod who were/are of Norwegian ancestry.

Charles Austin

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2020, 05:19:46 AM »
And we see evidence of the different style and intent of those who began the Lutheran presence on this continent. Muhlenberg’s intent in founding the Ministerium of Pennsylvania was to create an “American” church body. A century later, the immigration of Scandinavians brought the “homeland” Church, but quickly and intentionally “Americanized”.
In my ULCA experience, including national Luther League activity, we rarely spoke of ethnic origins except in a historic way. We were the United Lutheran Church in America and that last word was important. Sometimes, I think, those outside Lutheranism unfortunately stereotyped Lutherans as German.
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Julio

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2020, 09:08:02 AM »
It’s interesting that the forefathers of our various Lutheran traditions initially were very careful not to utilize the word “church” to describe the temporal federation of congregations that were being created.

In the case of what now is the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod our founding fathers named this temporal organization “German Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri, Ohio, and Other States (German: Die Deutsche Evangelisch-Lutherische Synode von Missouri, Ohio und andern Staaten)” properly recognizing and respectfully reserving the term ‘Church’ to refer to the una sancta.

The founding fathers of other Lutheran traditions utilized ‘Ministerium’ respectfully recognizing that these temporal organizations were only a part of the Holy Christian Church, the communion of saints.

As time passed ... and perhaps because the finer nuances of language were lost by the descendants of our respective synods or ministeriums, it became acceptable to refer to these temporal organizations as ‘Church’.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2020, 02:19:35 PM »
It’s interesting that the forefathers of our various Lutheran traditions initially were very careful not to utilize the word “church” to describe the temporal federation of congregations that were being created.

In the case of what now is the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod our founding fathers named this temporal organization “German Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri, Ohio, and Other States (German: Die Deutsche Evangelisch-Lutherische Synode von Missouri, Ohio und andern Staaten)” properly recognizing and respectfully reserving the term ‘Church’ to refer to the una sancta.

The founding fathers of other Lutheran traditions utilized ‘Ministerium’ respectfully recognizing that these temporal organizations were only a part of the Holy Christian Church, the communion of saints.


As I recall, the Ministerium of Pennsylvania (never referred to as MoP,) was the coming together of clergy. Congregations were not part of the Ministerium.


"Church" was used in some of the early Lutheran denominations.

1846 Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (Eielsen Synod)
1853 Synod for the Norwegian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
1872 Danish Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
1884 Danish Lutheran Church Association
1890 United Norwegian Lutheran Church in America
1890 1890 Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (Suomi Synod)
1897 Lutheran Free Church
1900 Lutheran Church of the Brethren


When "church" is used in the New Testament, it is a translation of ἐκκλεσία (literally, the called out ones). This word refers to the gathering or assembly of people. It is never used of a building. (The ELCA now uses "assembly" for its larger gatherings: Synod Assembly, Churchwide Assembly.) In civil Greek usage, the people who didn't gather when called together by the town crier were not part of the ἐκκλεσία. "Congregation," (based on Latin,) is close to the Greek ἐκκλεσία. It refers to those who gather together (like sheep). Those who haven't congregated are not part of the congregation.


The English word "church," comes through the German, Kirche, which came from the Greek adjective, κυριακός = "the Lord's." More specifically, according to my English Dictionary, it comes from the phrase: κυριακὸν δῶμα = "the Lord's house." (So it did refer to a building!) We could say, (forgetting the house part,) that the church are those who "are the Lord's."
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2020, 02:26:37 PM »
My wife’s grandfather was Stephen Tuhy, who founded St. Luke’s in Oviedo, Fl. He was from a line of Stephen/Stefan Tuhys who were Lutheran clergy, including president of the Slovak Lutheran church in the early 20th century.

Charles Austin

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2020, 02:31:56 PM »
Did we forget the Latvians? One of my seminary classmates was the son of a Latvian Pastor, and my seminary classmate  later became Bishop of the Latvian church. I think they are independent.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Say what you will about polls, but all current polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the things I have been saying in this modest form.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Lutheran ethnic origins
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2020, 03:09:44 PM »
The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia is an independent Lutheran Church body in Latvia and is a member of the Lutheran World Federation, World Council of Churches, and the Conference of European Churches. It also holds full observer status in the Porvoo Communion. It is in full fellowship with the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod.


Another Latvian Lutheran church body is the Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church Abroad and is a member of the Lutheran World Federation, World Council of Churches, the Conference of European Churches, and is part of the Porvoo Communion. It has churches in Latvia (where it is separate from the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia), Australia, Sweden, the United Kingdom, Canada and the United States.

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