Author Topic: America is a Trinitarian nation  (Read 1006 times)

Commencement2020

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Charles Austin

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2020, 06:08:27 PM »
Proof that this may be heresy:
https://revolsen.com/
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Commencement2020

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2020, 11:32:40 PM »
At one point in the design process, the eye was not in a triangle. The eye was restored to the traditional Trinitarian form by Charles Thomson, who revised the original seal. For a bio, see https://lowermerionbaptist.weebly.com/charles-thomson.html . He was both really into Baptism-by-total-immersion and born in Ireland. The original drawing was made by William Barton, the son of an Irish pastor.

On the Sunday of Christ the King we remember the Mexican Cristeros (their battle cry: "Viva Cristo Rey" ), whose efforts allowed Mexicans today the freedom of religion.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 10:41:06 AM by Commencement2020 »

Charles Austin

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 08:47:19 AM »
I don’t think one can make a very good case For a “Trinitarian” origin. The founders of our nation, for the most part, were rationalist deists. The Trinity as orthodox Christianity would have it, was hardly even present in their thinking.
Meanwhile, the article behind the link I posted just upstream shows how a Christian heresy is rampant in our land today. And it is perpetrated by those who are the most proud and sadly, considered most representative of “Christianity.”
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 07:27:03 PM »
I don’t think one can make a very good case For a “Trinitarian” origin. The founders of our nation, for the most part, were rationalist deists. The Trinity as orthodox Christianity would have it, was hardly even present in their thinking.
Meanwhile, the article behind the link I posted just upstream shows how a Christian heresy is rampant in our land today. And it is perpetrated by those who are the most proud and sadly, considered most representative of “Christianity.”


There is no divine Jesus in deism, nor in American culture. We can trust in God. We can say we're a nation under God. We can sing, "God bless American, (written by a Jewish man, not a Christian); but we don't talk about Jesus as Lord and Savior. We shudder as a nation as Jesus' call to repent, (which the prophets had done before him).
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Commencement2020

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 08:14:57 PM »
The Trinity implies Jesus' divinity. Otherwise, why the need for God the Son? The back of dollar bill testifies to Jesus' divinity because the Eye of Providence is inside a triangle.

Our Trinitarian founding fathers were aware of the danger posed by deists, who were also among the founding fathers. That the deists did not revolt and somehow unitarianize the Great Seal is something we can all be thankful for.

You can use the Great Seal when you teach children the Trinity. Just pull out a handy dollar bill.

Charles Austin

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 09:01:49 PM »
The pyramid and eye is probably a borrowing from Egyptian religious symbolism. 
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.

Commencement2020

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 10:30:06 PM »
"Crest      The Eye of Providence in a radiant Triangle whose Glory extends over the Shield and beyond the Figures"

https://greatseal.com/committees/firstcomm/index.html

The symbol they used had previously been used by Christians for hundreds of years to denote the Trinity's providence and/or omniscience. None of the people on the committee deciding about the seal were Masons except for Franklin, and the eye was not his idea. So the eye comes from the Christian context rather than Masonic. Earlier Egyptian influence had already been replaced by the Christian influence. Also the Egyptians didn't use the triangle with the eye of Horus. (Concession: You maybe could fault the first Christians who adopted the eye with the triangle for possibly giving into Hindu or maybe Egyptian influence. After the symbol became established among Christians you cannot levy the same fault at them.)

Here is a Masonic source which states that a triangle around an eye was "representative of the Holy Trinity": https://www.masonrytoday.com/index.php?new_month=12&new_day=11&new_year=2015

It is an Egyptian style pyramid; it was added by the third committee while the eye was part of the original design from the first committee. The pyramid is inferior to the eye; it does not indicate adherence to Egyptian religion. They aren't burying anyone under the pyramid I hope.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 10:45:48 PM by Commencement2020 »

Charles Austin

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Re: America is a Trinitarian nation
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 11:38:06 PM »
Does any of this matter?
Whatever some, repeat some of the founders might’ve had in mind, we are not founded the Trinitarian nation by any means.
And the closer we get to identifying the nation with Christianity the worse it is for the nation. And it sure ain’t good for the church either.
Retired ELCA Pastor. Iowa native. Now in Minneapolis. One must always ponder both the value and the dangers of poking the bear. Aroused and stimulated, the bear usually shows its true self. Or it might leap to an extreme version of itself. You never know with bears.