Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 44616 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #600 on: November 16, 2020, 07:32:14 PM »
David Garner:
You don't get to present the "respect the election" line if you're still on Russian collusion.

Me:
No. We are not on Russian collusion. It has not been proven that there was cooperation between any aspect of the Trump campaign and the Russians. But it is proven that the Russians worked to have an influence on the 2016 election. It is proven that they had some effect. But the matter of "collusion" has not been proven.
It has not been proven that they had any effect whatsoever. They try to have an effect on every election. Even talking about Russia in regard to the 2016 election is swallowing a bogus narrative designed to do nothing but delegitimize the results.


No, it is not delegitimizing the results. I'm wondering how many of the anti-Hillary posts I saw on Facebook might have come from Russian hackers. I wonder how many people might have been influenced by them. Whether they were influenced or not, it doesn't change the results. Hillary won the popular vote by almost three million votes and Trump won the electoral college 306 to 232.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #601 on: November 16, 2020, 07:47:17 PM »

Ye gods and little fishes! Must you always, to a maddening degree, go to your extremes?
The underline just heightens the irony.

There is no evidence that Trump won't get out of the way. He is president at least until January. He still has hope in ongoing legal challenges to the election. If there is nothing there, those challenges will come to nothing. Nobody's life depends on Trump doing anything differently than what he is doing. He thinks that he got robbed by chicanery. Okay. Lots of politicians who aren't insane think that after losing by razor thin margins, or even about this election. But as Tom Cruise's character shouted out in A Few Good Men, "It doesn't matter what I know. It only matters what I can prove." There is a difference. Trump thinks he won. He hopes he can prove it. If he can't, he will leave, right on schedule.   

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #602 on: November 16, 2020, 08:07:11 PM »

Ye gods and little fishes! Must you always, to a maddening degree, go to your extremes?
The underline just heightens the irony.

There is no evidence that Trump won't get out of the way. He is president at least until January. He still has hope in ongoing legal challenges to the election. If there is nothing there, those challenges will come to nothing. Nobody's life depends on Trump doing anything differently than what he is doing. He thinks that he got robbed by chicanery. Okay. Lots of politicians who aren't insane think that after losing by razor thin margins, or even about this election. But as Tom Cruise's character shouted out in A Few Good Men, "It doesn't matter what I know. It only matters what I can prove." There is a difference. Trump thinks he won. He hopes he can prove it. If he can't, he will leave, right on schedule.


Why does he think he's won? Because he believes the election was rigged. Beliefs do not have to be proven.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #603 on: November 16, 2020, 08:17:50 PM »

Ye gods and little fishes! Must you always, to a maddening degree, go to your extremes?
The underline just heightens the irony.

There is no evidence that Trump won't get out of the way. He is president at least until January. He still has hope in ongoing legal challenges to the election. If there is nothing there, those challenges will come to nothing. Nobody's life depends on Trump doing anything differently than what he is doing. He thinks that he got robbed by chicanery. Okay. Lots of politicians who aren't insane think that after losing by razor thin margins, or even about this election. But as Tom Cruise's character shouted out in A Few Good Men, "It doesn't matter what I know. It only matters what I can prove." There is a difference. Trump thinks he won. He hopes he can prove it. If he can't, he will leave, right on schedule.


Why does he think he's won? Because he believes the election was rigged. Beliefs do not have to be proven.
He is like a coach throwing the red challenge flag. If the replay is inconclusive he will lose the challenge. And even then that coach might think the refs for it wrong and that if the replay angles had been better the call would have been overturned. That isn’t a sign of insanity.

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #604 on: November 16, 2020, 08:35:10 PM »
"Biden denounces 'all acts of violence' after attacks on Trump supporters at MAGA rally"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-statement-million-maga-march-violence-trump-supporters

Ah, but when some responded to police killings with "All lives matter, " they were fired, forced to walk it back, or otherwise canceled.
Pr. Don Kirchner

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Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #605 on: November 17, 2020, 01:26:23 AM »
Certainly there were people who never accepted the Trump presidency, and there appears to be those who will never accept the Biden presidency; but such misguided people should be reflections of the president and the office.
Please expand on the emphasized phrase.

Quote
The peaceful transition from Obama to Trump's administration happened. Obama congratulated Trump soon after his victory was predicted; something like 2:30 AM. Obamas invited Trumps to the White House. Trump participated in briefings that the president received. As Bush had done for Obama and Obama did for Trump, there were hand written notes of congratulations left in the presidential desk. The office is bigger than any one person. America is more important than a president and the party he's from. When the president fails, the nation fails; regardless of party affiliation.
Yes .. we have heard all this ... without specifics? When did Trumps actually visit the White House? When did the security briefings actually begin?

Oh yes ... you conveniently forget how the Clinton administration removed the ‘W’s from White House computer key boards ... along with other odd behaviors.

Perhaps you should be a eager to recite the sins of your progressive ilk as you are to recite the sins of those whom you loath and despise. 👹

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #606 on: November 17, 2020, 01:48:31 AM »

Ye gods and little fishes! Must you always, to a maddening degree, go to your extremes?
The underline just heightens the irony.

There is no evidence that Trump won't get out of the way. He is president at least until January. He still has hope in ongoing legal challenges to the election. If there is nothing there, those challenges will come to nothing. Nobody's life depends on Trump doing anything differently than what he is doing. He thinks that he got robbed by chicanery. Okay. Lots of politicians who aren't insane think that after losing by razor thin margins, or even about this election. But as Tom Cruise's character shouted out in A Few Good Men, "It doesn't matter what I know. It only matters what I can prove." There is a difference. Trump thinks he won. He hopes he can prove it. If he can't, he will leave, right on schedule.


Why does he think he's won? Because he believes the election was rigged. Beliefs do not have to be proven.
He is like a coach throwing the red challenge flag. If the replay is inconclusive he will lose the challenge. And even then that coach might think the refs for it wrong and that if the replay angles had been better the call would have been overturned. That isn’t a sign of insanity.


Usually before the coach throws the challenge flag, he will check with the player involved to see if he might win the challenge. If he loses the challenge, he is penalized with a reduction of one time-out. He also has a limited amount of challenges - only two. He doesn't want to waste them. What penalties are there should Trump and his team lose their challenges?
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #607 on: November 17, 2020, 02:17:18 AM »
What penalties are there should Trump and his team lose their challenges?
Perhaps exactly the same legal penalties that the army of Biden lawyers would have been subjected to had they legally challenged the election results.🤭

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #608 on: November 17, 2020, 02:21:45 AM »
Certainly there were people who never accepted the Trump presidency, and there appears to be those who will never accept the Biden presidency; but such misguided people should be reflections of the president and the office.
Please expand on the emphasized phrase.


My proofreader missed a mistake. It should be: "… such misguided people shouldn't be reflections of the president and the office."

Quote
Quote
The peaceful transition from Obama to Trump's administration happened. Obama congratulated Trump soon after his victory was predicted; something like 2:30 AM. Obamas invited Trumps to the White House. Trump participated in briefings that the president received. As Bush had done for Obama and Obama did for Trump, there were hand written notes of congratulations left in the presidential desk. The office is bigger than any one person. America is more important than a president and the party he's from. When the president fails, the nation fails; regardless of party affiliation.
Yes .. we have heard all this ... without specifics? When did Trumps actually visit the White House? When did the security briefings actually begin?


The Trumps were invited and visited Obamas at the White House on Thursday, November 10, 2016.


https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/10/trump-visits-white-house-for-first-time-as-president-elect.html


Quote
Oh yes ... you conveniently forget how the Clinton administration removed the ‘W’s from White House computer key boards ... along with other odd behaviors.


I didn't know that had happened. It did on a few keyboards used by aides. Some of the "Ws" were placed on high ledges above doors. A prank. No "Ws" were removed from keyboards in the West Wing. The president was able to type George W. Bush.


Quote
Perhaps you should be as eager to recite the sins of your progressive ilk as you are to recite the sins of those whom you loath and despise. 👹


I have. I have challenged some progressive friends about positions they have that I think are ill-founded. However, I have almost never found a progressive friend posting lies as facts on Facebook; well, except for my mother. I've pointed out when she has posted something that doesn't pass the fact-check tests. I've had to do that much more often with conservative friend's posts than with progressive posts.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #609 on: November 17, 2020, 02:27:42 AM »
What penalties are there should Trump and his team lose their challenges?
Perhaps exactly the same legal penalties that the army of Biden lawyers would have been subjected to had they legally challenged the election results.🤭


Why would Biden want to challenge the results? Hillary Clinton could have. She didn't. She conceded. There was a peaceful change of leaders of the United States.


Perhaps if all the legal fees for the challenges that were thrown out or lost came directly from Trump pocketbook rather than the RNC, he might be less willing to file lawsuits that won't make any difference. Although, I recently read a theory that the lawsuits are more about raising money than actually winning any lawsuits. "Please, help me pay for the voting injustices that have happened to me."
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #610 on: November 17, 2020, 04:52:23 AM »
When we face a national crisis, when lives are at stake and our national security is endangered, it is the height of foolishness to cite a minor prank as “evidence” for a mind-numbingly desperate “Democrats did it too” defense of Trump’s actions. Focus, please.
I ask again.
Why should the man who will be the new president be denied information and other things to help him when he takes office?
Why should he not work with the agencies that will be present and people that will continue to work in them after he is inaugurated?
The protocols and the laws say this should happen.
Lawsuits challenging Biden’s win have been withdrawn in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
BTW, notice that President-Elect Biden is not whining or threatening lawsuits. He patiently and with some sadness in his voice says the situation is dangerous.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 04:57:21 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Say what you will about polls, but all current polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the things I have been saying in this modest form.

David Garner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #611 on: November 17, 2020, 08:03:53 AM »
David Garner:
You don't get to present the "respect the election" line if you're still on Russian collusion.

Me:
No. We are not on Russian collusion. It has not been proven that there was cooperation between any aspect of the Trump campaign and the Russians. But it is proven that the Russians worked to have an influence on the 2016 election. It is proven that they had some effect. But the matter of "collusion" has not been proven.
It has not been proven that they had any effect whatsoever. They try to have an effect on every election. Even talking about Russia in regard to the 2016 election is swallowing a bogus narrative designed to do nothing but delegitimize the results.

Accurate. Yet wingnuttery persists from the supposed adults in the room.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #612 on: November 17, 2020, 09:41:55 AM »
Thousands of Missing Ballots Uncovered in Georgia Recount, Found in Just 1 County

Quote from: Western Journal
A massive flaw in the Georgia elections was discovered in northwestern Floyd County, where 2,600 ballots were found that were never counted on Election Day.

Located using DuckDuckGo
https://www.westernjournal.com/thousands-missing-ballots-uncovered-georgia-recount-found-just-1-county/

Yes ... there are reasons to check and verify...haste makes waste ... and hides errors and/or fraud.🤬

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #613 on: November 17, 2020, 09:54:50 AM »
Hardly a “massive flaw”.
It was human error involving apparently less than 3000 ballots, which would not have changed anything.
Again no evidence of massive orchestrated voter fraud.
So let’s not go hysterical over this error.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Say what you will about polls, but all current polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the things I have been saying in this modest form.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #614 on: November 17, 2020, 10:17:28 AM »
Recounts and legal challenges are a common feature of close elections. Hillary Clinton had advised Joe Biden to not concede if the vote seemed to go for Trump and Biden had legal teams ready to go if necessary. Yes the concept of gracious loser is not in Trump's wheelhouse, for that matter neither was gracious winner. There is much that is regrettable about Trump, and yet for some reason he was able to pull off a stunning upset in 2016. And he nearly did it again in 2020 but for the disaster that was 2020. To merely write off Trump as a product of nearly half the population of the United States being racist, misogynistic, homophobic idiots is far too facile. Trump was able to tap into the hopes and fears of millions of Americans. Whether they like it or not, those are the fellow Americans of the enlightened Democrats and their voices need to be listened to rather than simply dismissed. Especially if Biden was serious about his pledge to be a President for all Americans and not just for those who vote Democratic.


Republicans do need to recognize that they apparently lost the White House, but it was not the great Blue Wave that Democrats were promising and hoping for. The Republican Party is not dead. They gained seats in the House, we will see if they maintained their majority in the Senate, and they maintained or increased their positions in the states. We shall see if Democrats can actually listen to all the people of these United States or value ideological purity and cancelling those who do not fall into line over serving all the people.
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