Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 74403 times)

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #345 on: November 12, 2020, 01:15:51 AM »
Two decades ago I was praying the Great Ektania during Vespers and at the beginning of the Sunday Liturgy in Advent for "William our President and for our unknown President-elect."

Deja-vu all over again.
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Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
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Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #346 on: November 12, 2020, 04:37:16 AM »
This year, J. Thomas Shelley, until Jan. 20, we pray for “Joseph, our President-Elect, and Kamala, our Vice-President Elect.”
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Looking forward to participating in the ordination of a young woman from  Minnesota called to a parish in western North Dakota.

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #347 on: November 12, 2020, 04:53:13 AM »
From CNN, my emphasis added:
Karl Rove, the architect of former President George W. Bush's gubernatorial and presidential campaigns, acknowledged Wednesday that the 2020 presidential election will not be overturned regardless of the flurry of lawsuits from President Donald Trump challenging the results.
   Rove -- who sources said advised the White House and Trump campaign leading up to the 2020 election -- wrote in a Wall Street Journal op-ed that while the President is within his right to challenge the results, his efforts "are unlikely to move a single state from Mr. Biden's column, and certainly they're not enough to change the final outcome."
   To prevail, Rove wrote, Trump would need to "prove systemic fraud, with illegal votes in the tens of thousands. There is no evidence of that so far. Unless some emerges quickly, the President's chances in court will decline precipitously when states start certifying results."
   "Closing out this election will be a hard but necessary step toward restoring some unity and political equilibrium," he added. "Once his days in court are over, the President should do his part to unite the country by leading a peaceful transition and letting grievances go."
   The op-ed makes Rove one of the highest profile GOP figures to encourage the President to accept the results of the election.


And from CNBC:
NBC News reported that Trump met with his son-in-law and senior White House advisor Jared Kushner, campaign manager Bill Stepien and senior campaign advisor Jason Miller to discuss a path forward for the Republican incumbent.
   Trump held a similar meeting on Tuesday that was more focused on the status of multiple legal challenges his campaign has launched in an attempt to invalidate ballots cast for Biden in six battleground states.
   Wednesday’s meeting came as NBC News reported that there is growing expectation among Trump’s advisors that he will never concede that he lost to Biden, even when ballots are certified in coming weeks around the country.
   “Do not expect him to concede,” a top aide told NBC. It is more likely, the aide said, that “he’ll say something like, ‘We can’t trust the results, but I’m not contesting them.”

I comment:
If the aide is correct, his parting line will be another ego-driven attack not supported by any evidence, on the foundation of our democracy. Now there’s a legacy!

From CNBC:
Election analysts and legal observers say his chances of winning a recount or of invalidating enough ballots by proving fraud or some other irregularity to deny Biden a victory in even a single state, much less multiple states, are slim at best.
    Biden’s legal advisor Bob Bauer has called the Trump campaign’s legal challenges to ballots “theatrics.”
    A White House official told NBC News, “It’s not wrong for the Biden team to call it theater.”
    Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich, a Republican, on Wednesday said it is “very, highly unlikely” that Trump will win enough of the fewer than 45,000 ballots outstanding in Arizona to overcome Biden’s lead there.
   Brnovich, whose wife was appointed to the federal judiciary by Trump, also said during a Fox Business interview that his office had not found any evidence of ballot fraud.
   In Georgia, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger told Fox 5 Atlanta on Tuesday, “We have not found any widespread voter fraud.”
   “I understand half of the people will be happy, half of the people will be sad, but I want 100% of the people to understand that the process was fair and accurately counted,” Raffensperger said.
   Pennsylvania Lt. Gov. John Fetterman, a Democrat, in a CNN interview Wednesday said that the only known case of voter fraud “in Pennsylvania in this cycle, is a registered Republican in Luzerne County, [who] tried to vote for Trump with his dead mother’s ballot.”
   “And at some point, we all have to collectively accept that yelling ‘voter fraud’ when there is no evidence whatsoever of it is yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater,” Fetterman said. “It is harming the democratic franchise of our country and the peaceful transition of power, and we cannot accept that.”
   In Michigan, state Attorney General Dana Nessel also disputed claims of fraud by the Trump campaign.
   “The November elections in Michigan ran as smoothly as ever,” Nessel, a Democrat, said Wednesday.
   “Irregularities occur in every election, but there are multiple layers of protection to ensure that these irregularities are caught and rectified.”
   “Most of these are simple human error, not crimes,” she said.

I comment:
Can everyone in this modest forum now do our country the courtesy of referring to Biden as “President-Elect”?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 05:06:14 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Looking forward to participating in the ordination of a young woman from  Minnesota called to a parish in western North Dakota.

John_Hannah

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #348 on: November 12, 2020, 06:58:28 AM »
It does then apply to removing support for the President elect. A bit of embarasment for Republicans that I hope they come to regret in the future.   :)

No, it does not apply.

But I know, Rev Hannah, that you (and ALPB) cannot be wrong. You're from New York. So I acquiesce.

Oh yeah... 😊

Peace

As I said, "It's no big deal." The fact remains it has never happened before. What it's called makes little difference. By the way, I learned my American history in the Midwest.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #349 on: November 12, 2020, 08:03:34 AM »
Morning briefing, NYT
The political scientist Brendan Nyhan has often responded to events during the Trump presidency by asking a question: What would you say if you saw it in another country?
   Let’s try that exercise now. Imagine that a president of another country lost an election and refused to concede defeat. Instead, he lied about the vote count. He then filed lawsuits to have ballots thrown out, put pressure on other officials to back him up and used the power of government to prevent a transition of power from starting.
   How would you describe this behavior? It’s certainly anti-democratic. It is an attempt to overrule the will of the people, ignore a country’s laws and illegitimately grab political power.
   President Trump’s efforts will probably fail, but they are unlike anything that living Americans have experienced. “What we have seen in the last week from the president more closely resembles the tactics of the kind of authoritarian leaders we follow,” Michael Abramowitz, the president of Freedom House, which tracks democracy, told The Times. “I never would have imagined seeing something like this in America.”
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Looking forward to participating in the ordination of a young woman from  Minnesota called to a parish in western North Dakota.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #350 on: November 12, 2020, 08:22:39 AM »
Morning briefing, NYT
The political scientist Brendan Nyhan has often responded to events during the Trump presidency by asking a question: What would you say if you saw it in another country?
   Let’s try that exercise now. Imagine that a president of another country lost an election and refused to concede defeat. Instead, he lied about the vote count. He then filed lawsuits to have ballots thrown out, put pressure on other officials to back him up and used the power of government to prevent a transition of power from starting.
   How would you describe this behavior? It’s certainly anti-democratic. It is an attempt to overrule the will of the people, ignore a country’s laws and illegitimately grab political power.
   President Trump’s efforts will probably fail, but they are unlike anything that living Americans have experienced. “What we have seen in the last week from the president more closely resembles the tactics of the kind of authoritarian leaders we follow,” Michael Abramowitz, the president of Freedom House, which tracks democracy, told The Times. “I never would have imagined seeing something like this in America.”
I think it is a good question of any election and of multiple facets of that election. It is the reason I would never support the Jeb Bush candidacy. If another country kept electing members of the same family, you smell something fishy. If Putin’s wife were elected, we’d roll our eyes, which is the correct response to Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama— whom did they think they’re kidding? And it is a good question about this election. Proof may be hard to establish, but there are plenty of anomalies involved that a rational person naturally is insulted when people demand he take them seriously. So people might go along with the result, but until they get an explanation, with backup evidence, for some of the fishy stuff that’s been going on, they’re going to treat it the way people in Illinois treat Mike Madigan— he is speaker of the house because everyone knows but nobody will risk trying to prove that he corrupt.

Biden will likely be president. But it will only be because he “won,” not because he won. If you don’t like that, you need to join with those demanding election transparency and accountability and quit labeling all such efforts as voter suppression.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 08:43:26 AM by peter_speckhard »

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #351 on: November 12, 2020, 08:29:17 AM »
P.S.
Not one word yesterday from the President about military veterans.
And he has not been attending meetings of what is left of his virus task force for weeks.

And to Peter:
May you never get invited to or attend a Trump event. You would drink the Kool Aid.
Hope we’re done here.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Looking forward to participating in the ordination of a young woman from  Minnesota called to a parish in western North Dakota.

Randy Bosch

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #352 on: November 12, 2020, 08:48:16 AM »
P.S.
Not one word yesterday from the President about military veterans....

President Trump made the now traditional trip to Arlington National Cemetery and placed a wreath at the Tombs of the Unknown Soldiers.  Some national media covered that event, others have cancelled all things Trump for the duration.  I didn't watch/listen to the feed to know what if any words the President said there.  Perhaps you could check it out and report back.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #353 on: November 12, 2020, 08:49:48 AM »
P.S.
Not one word yesterday from the President about military veterans.
And he has not been attending meetings of what is left of his virus task force for weeks.

And to Peter:
May you never get invited to or attend a Trump event. You would drink the Kool Aid.
Hope we’re done here.
This is an area where you truly have zero knowledge. Everything I posted is perfectly mainstream opinion. You personally know (without being able to prove) that urban machines routinely rig elections. Unless, that is, you were the most credulous and naive person in New Jersey all those years. Heck, a judge in Philadelphia just pleaded guilty to having done just that in 2016. 

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #354 on: November 12, 2020, 08:52:42 AM »
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 08:59:03 AM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it’s not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Randy Bosch

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #355 on: November 12, 2020, 08:55:31 AM »
...And from CNBC: “Do not expect him to concede,” a top aide told NBC.
...

Perhaps President Trump is simply following Never President-Elect Hillary Clinton's strident advice to Joe Biden in September: "Never Concede":
 https://pjmedia.com/election/matt-margolis/2020/11/11/president-trump-is-simply-following-hillary-clintons-advice-n1139021

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #356 on: November 12, 2020, 09:03:48 AM »
The far left is hoping that Biden will not govern in a centrist position (as Obama did in many ways trying to please both sides), but will move left, far left.  In an open letter to Biden, Michael Moore called for him to work toward abolishing the Electoral College, among other liberal causes.  And he is by no means alone.  He also urged Biden to pay attention to young Democrats under 35 years of age. A headline in the Washington Times from September had read: "Ocasio-Cortez says Biden can be pushed 'in a more progressive direction' once he's elected."

I know that the call for unity sounds politically proper, but I'm quite concerned that the force from the far left will have more influence than some want to admit.  Of course, as they say, 'time will tell.'

Although I see abolishing the Electoral College as a huge long shot, it also sends a signal from the left that they would prefer a country of really only one view, one party position. 



https://meaww.com/michael-moore-praised-social-media-demanding-biden-embrace-the-far-left-abolish-electoral-college
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St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

John_Hannah

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #357 on: November 12, 2020, 09:09:39 AM »
The far left is hoping that Biden will not govern in a centrist position (as Obama did in many ways trying to please both sides), but will move left, far left.  In an open letter to Biden, Michael Moore called for him to work toward abolishing the Electoral College, among other liberal causes.  And he is by no means alone.  He also urged Biden to pay attention to young Democrats under 35 years of age. A headline in the Washington Times from September had read: "Ocasio-Cortez says Biden can be pushed 'in a more progressive direction' once he's elected."

I know that the call for unity sounds politically proper, but I'm quite concerned that the force from the far left will have more influence than some want to admit.  Of course, as they say, 'time will tell.'

Although I see abolishing the Electoral College as a huge long shot, it also sends a signal from the left that they would prefer a country of really only one view, one party position. 



https://meaww.com/michael-moore-praised-social-media-demanding-biden-embrace-the-far-left-abolish-electoral-college

I think that the "Squad" (AOC and others) like to forget one important fact. They do not have the votes in Congress to achieve their goals. The same may be said for far right conservatives. America is constructed to withstand serious disruptions to the course of history.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #358 on: November 12, 2020, 09:12:26 AM »
Among the liberal causes Biden is pledged to support and work toward, as I mentioned upstream some posts ago, is the Equality Act. Of course, if the Senate remains in Republican control it stands less of a chance of passing.  But the Senate's control is not settled, as the runoff election in Georgia proves.  If the Senate ends up evenly split, Kamala Harris becomes the majority in contested votes.

The law, if passed, would greatly undermine the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which "which established a balancing test for religious freedom claims. It established a process for the litigation of discrimination grievances, where religious employers could appeal if found responsible for an offense and their actions could be fairly evaluated."

The article referenced below from USA Today, in an op-ed from 2019, outlines well the concerns conservative Christians now have. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/20/lgbtq-equality-act-fails-fair-religious-freedom-provisions-accommodation-column/3731197002/
Pastor Don Engebretson
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #359 on: November 12, 2020, 09:16:30 AM »
The far left is hoping that Biden will not govern in a centrist position (as Obama did in many ways trying to please both sides), but will move left, far left.  In an open letter to Biden, Michael Moore called for him to work toward abolishing the Electoral College, among other liberal causes.  And he is by no means alone.  He also urged Biden to pay attention to young Democrats under 35 years of age. A headline in the Washington Times from September had read: "Ocasio-Cortez says Biden can be pushed 'in a more progressive direction' once he's elected."

I know that the call for unity sounds politically proper, but I'm quite concerned that the force from the far left will have more influence than some want to admit.  Of course, as they say, 'time will tell.'

Although I see abolishing the Electoral College as a huge long shot, it also sends a signal from the left that they would prefer a country of really only one view, one party position. 



https://meaww.com/michael-moore-praised-social-media-demanding-biden-embrace-the-far-left-abolish-electoral-college

I think that the "Squad" (AOC and others) like to forget one important fact. They do not have the votes in Congress to achieve their goals. The same may be said for far right conservatives. America is constructed to withstand serious disruptions to the course of history.

Peace, JOHN

The majority in the House may be, as is observed, 'razor thin,' but the Senate is still up for grabs in some ways. Even if the Senate ends up evenly split, the vice president breaks the tie.  The ACA was created with a Democratic majority across those seats of power in the early early of the Obama administration.  I am not discounting the possibility for bold, liberal projects being launched in those early years of the Biden administration, especially, as I noted in my previous post, the Equality Act. I am concerned. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI