Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 55861 times)

Richard Johnson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #315 on: November 11, 2020, 01:39:23 PM »
As Biden prepares to recommend sweeping tax increases on corporate America, it is interesting that some of these firms are already making choices in terms of relocation due to state taxes.  Some of the larger population centers, such as New York and California, may continue to lose businesses as they levy harsh taxes.  These areas are also Democratic strongholds as shown in the election just past.  I wonder how that loss of revenue will impact areas already suffering economic downturns.  And long term, now it may impact future elections.  Have no idea. But it will be interesting to watch.

You know, everybody always talks about California as a "Democratic stronghold," but it doesn't get much press that the three or four most controversial propositions on the recent ballot were all decided in the more "conservative" direction.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #316 on: November 11, 2020, 01:42:49 PM »
Peter, I make no "claim" about the president being sick or not being sick. I was just noting, as I am sure you agree, that a lot of off-beat things are "out there." Social media takes some of these things and magnifies them by the millions.
And the angst which I may have, but which is now mostly ebbing, is that I believe this president to be so egotistical, so corrupt, so immoral, so dictatorially ambitious, so dismissive of our sacred governing documents that he and his people (who may actually be controlling him) would stop at nothing, even attempting to find reasons to call upon the military to keep him in office. The parallels between us and Germany in the 1930s are there.
He would stay in office claiming the election was rigged against him, but if he did, you would see trouble in our streets that would make anything previous look like a sandbox tussle. And that would be a real tragedy.
But, hey, maybe he'll appoint some judges that will rule your way on a couple of issues.
And some us see parallels between the cancel culture and the cultural revolution in China.


Let's look at some of the things that have been happening over the last several years that have made it into the news. Patrons at outdoor seating at a restaurant being accosted by demonstrators who demanded that they join in salutes to the demonstrators' organization. Entertainers loosing their jobs and having their careers effectively ended because they said something that some found offensive perhaps years or decades previous, news media people being fired or hounded from their positions because some objected to something that they wrote or permitted to be published that was not considered politically correct. The list could go on. Trump did all that? No, but those who oppose Trump because he is a Fascist and cannot tolerate dissent from their positions.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 02:05:37 PM by Dan Fienen »
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Robert Johnson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #317 on: November 11, 2020, 02:00:12 PM »
There are several investigations in Texas. One that has proceeded to formal charges is a person charged with 134 counts of election fraud:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/11/06/texas-social-worker-charged-counts-election-fraud/

This is exactly why mass mail-in ballots are an awful idea.
Hmmmm... Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to assume that President Trump really won Texas.

Cute. What part of “social worker” did you miss?

Robert Johnson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #318 on: November 11, 2020, 02:05:38 PM »
The left is quite frankly totalitarian in their view points ...
Last night I started reading Ross Douthat's new book, Live Not by Lies: A Manual for Christian Dissidents. His diagnosis of "soft totalitarianism" strikes me as on the mark, imposed not by government repression but by voluntary (though perhaps unwitting) embrace; as he puts it, more Brave New World than Nineteen Eighty-Four.

I think the author is Rod Dreher.

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #319 on: November 11, 2020, 02:49:26 PM »
News flash, Peter! I believe that much of the "mainstream" media is partisan. But I also believe that most of what it publishes is true. And I believe there is an attempt (not always successful, but usually present) to draw a distinction between editorial opinion or standing and news and to not warp the news so that it is in accord with editorial opinion. And I know that I will never be able to convince some of you about this. At some newspapers, the editorial pages and op-ed pages and people who work those pages aren't even on the same floor as the newsroom.
Your right-wing media or Fox (which is, sad to say, mainstream), doesn't even pretend to present facts. It publishes outright lies and knows that it is publishing lies to advance a political agenda.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #320 on: November 11, 2020, 02:50:57 PM »
News flash, Peter! I believe that much of the "mainstream" media is partisan. But I also believe that most of what it publishes is true. And I believe there is an attempt (not always successful, but usually present) to draw a distinction between editorial opinion or standing and news and to not warp the news so that it is in accord with editorial opinion. And I know that I will never be able to convince some of you about this. At some newspapers, the editorial pages and op-ed pages and people who work those pages aren't even on the same floor as the newsroom.
Your right-wing media or Fox (which is, sad to say, mainstream), doesn't even pretend to present facts. It publishes outright lies and knows that it is publishing lies to advance a political agenda.
https://lidblog.com/richard-hopkins-wapo/

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #321 on: November 11, 2020, 02:58:17 PM »


Why were ballots mailed to her both at her Oregon residence and 2 ballots to a out of state address where never lived after registering to vote in Oregon?



Rather than hyperventilating about it, why don't you call the county clerk and ask? That's what I did when my son received election information after he had moved to a different state.


We have written "return to sender" on the unopened voting materials sent to our son at our address with an additional note, "No longer lives here."
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

DeHall1

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #322 on: November 11, 2020, 03:33:16 PM »
News flash, Peter! I believe that much of the "mainstream" media is partisan. But I also believe that most of what it publishes is true. And I believe there is an attempt (not always successful, but usually present) to draw a distinction between editorial opinion or standing and news and to not warp the news so that it is in accord with editorial opinion. And I know that I will never be able to convince some of you about this. At some newspapers, the editorial pages and op-ed pages and people who work those pages aren't even on the same floor as the newsroom.
Your right-wing media or Fox (which is, sad to say, mainstream), doesn't even pretend to present facts. It publishes outright lies and knows that it is publishing lies to advance a political agenda.
https://lidblog.com/richard-hopkins-wapo/

There's this as well...
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/my-resignation-from-the-intercept

Here's the article that lead to Mr. Greenwald's resignation:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/article-on-joe-and-hunter-biden-censored

James J Eivan

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #323 on: November 11, 2020, 03:35:51 PM »
The Georgia manual recount begins ... the Georgia senate campaigns heat up ... the quote of the day ... All Democrats may not be Socialists ... but all socialists are Democrats!🥴

Pastor Ken Kimball

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #324 on: November 11, 2020, 04:46:10 PM »
I'm not in favor of political unity.  It's a feature of authoritarian states like China, North Korea, Russia, etc.  Disunity, i.e. disagreement and opposition and even resistance in the form of elected representatives actually representing those who elected them signals the existence of democratic governments and societies.   The present calls for unity by Biden and others are calls for capitulation.  The Democrats obviously and clearly did not capitulate and surrender their issues, concerns, and agenda following the 2016 elections.  That was their right under the Constitution even as the Constitution allowed the winners of the 2016 elections to pursue their agenda, within the bounds of the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights and other amendments), including having to deal with response/resistance of Democrats doing so (again under and within the bounds of our constitutionally established republic).  Where agreement and compromise of common interests and common understanding of the national good can be made--fine, with the recognized provision that those voting for such things do so in recognition that they will be held accountable by the electorate.  Let those we elected fight it out and if that means gridlock on things like climate change, taxes, et al, I'm fine with that.  No mindless unity and capitulation.  Leave that to the totalitarians.   

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #325 on: November 11, 2020, 05:01:04 PM »
I'm not in favor of political unity.  It's a feature of authoritarian states like China, North Korea, Russia, etc.  Disunity, i.e. disagreement and opposition and even resistance in the form of elected representatives actually representing those who elected them signals the existence of democratic governments and societies.   The present calls for unity by Biden and others are calls for capitulation.  The Democrats obviously and clearly did not capitulate and surrender their issues, concerns, and agenda following the 2016 elections.  That was their right under the Constitution even as the Constitution allowed the winners of the 2016 elections to pursue their agenda, within the bounds of the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights and other amendments), including having to deal with response/resistance of Democrats doing so (again under and within the bounds of our constitutionally established republic).  Where agreement and compromise of common interests and common understanding of the national good can be made--fine, with the recognized provision that those voting for such things do so in recognition that they will be held accountable by the electorate.  Let those we elected fight it out and if that means gridlock on things like climate change, taxes, et al, I'm fine with that.  No mindless unity and capitulation.  Leave that to the totalitarians.


Unity is not the same as uniformity. School administration and teachers and staff may be unified in their goal to offer the best education to their students as possible. Each group has a different emphasis and responsibility in how they reach that. Sometimes the emphases may be in conflict with each other, e.g., balancing the budget and the desire for computers for every student. A consultant, a superintendent who was a friend, brought in helped them find solutions that were win-win. It began by agreeing on a common objective, i.e., educating the students. Each side then could present what they believe they needed to reach that goal; and compromises were made with their eyes always on the goal they were all trying to reach. One outcome is that the superintendent spent a lunch hour (actually more like 2 hours) every month in every school so that the staff had immediate access to him. He didn't come with an agenda, but to be easily accessible in their lunch room. It greatly helped communications and respect on both sides.


The problem with gridlock where nothing gets decided or done is that they can fail to achieve their primary goal of educating the students. No one wins and it's the students who suffer the worse consequences.


Unity, as Paul illustrates it, is being one body; but a body that has many different parts. It is not everyone being a foot.



"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #326 on: November 11, 2020, 05:16:32 PM »
Peter, concerning the recanting whistleblower, do people not note that if there is a problem with understanding whether he recanted or not, the source of the problem is the Postal/Service Inspector General and not with the Washington Post? The newspaper reported, I presume accurately, what he said about the Whistler.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #327 on: November 11, 2020, 05:32:51 PM »
Peter, concerning the recanting whistleblower, do people not note that if there is a problem with understanding whether he recanted or not, the source of the problem is the Postal/Service Inspector General and not with the Washington Post? The newspaper reported, I presume accurately, what he said about the Whistler.
So do you think readers of WaPo are well informed or victims of disinformation if they read WaPo and think (wrongly) that the story has been debunked because the guy recanted?

Pastor Ken Kimball

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #328 on: November 11, 2020, 05:52:20 PM »
I'm not in favor of political unity.  It's a feature of authoritarian states like China, North Korea, Russia, etc.  Disunity, i.e. disagreement and opposition and even resistance in the form of elected representatives actually representing those who elected them signals the existence of democratic governments and societies.   The present calls for unity by Biden and others are calls for capitulation.  The Democrats obviously and clearly did not capitulate and surrender their issues, concerns, and agenda following the 2016 elections.  That was their right under the Constitution even as the Constitution allowed the winners of the 2016 elections to pursue their agenda, within the bounds of the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights and other amendments), including having to deal with response/resistance of Democrats doing so (again under and within the bounds of our constitutionally established republic).  Where agreement and compromise of common interests and common understanding of the national good can be made--fine, with the recognized provision that those voting for such things do so in recognition that they will be held accountable by the electorate.  Let those we elected fight it out and if that means gridlock on things like climate change, taxes, et al, I'm fine with that.  No mindless unity and capitulation.  Leave that to the totalitarians.


Unity is not the same as uniformity. School administration and teachers and staff may be unified in their goal to offer the best education to their students as possible. Each group has a different emphasis and responsibility in how they reach that. Sometimes the emphases may be in conflict with each other, e.g., balancing the budget and the desire for computers for every student. A consultant, a superintendent who was a friend, brought in helped them find solutions that were win-win. It began by agreeing on a common objective, i.e., educating the students. Each side then could present what they believe they needed to reach that goal; and compromises were made with their eyes always on the goal they were all trying to reach. One outcome is that the superintendent spent a lunch hour (actually more like 2 hours) every month in every school so that the staff had immediate access to him. He didn't come with an agenda, but to be easily accessible in their lunch room. It greatly helped communications and respect on both sides.


The problem with gridlock where nothing gets decided or done is that they can fail to achieve their primary goal of educating the students. No one wins and it's the students who suffer the worse consequences.


Unity, as Paul illustrates it, is being one body; but a body that has many different parts. It is not everyone being a foot.
Embleer hraka.  Not interested in your rabbit hole. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #329 on: November 11, 2020, 06:02:34 PM »
I think, Peter that there may be more to the story. Or maybe not. Truth isn’t always one thing; sometimes it evolves. Like everything.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.