Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 72802 times)

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 17553
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #285 on: November 11, 2020, 11:32:14 AM »

Let's focus on reality. On today. On looking towards tomorrow. Is that so hard?
Here is the deal today. Biden is the President-Elect. He has won the election. Nothing is likely to change that.

How do you know so many things that so many other people don't know? Do you have inside information, or do you simply assume that the media is unbiased? Again, if all you say is true-- Biden is incontrovertibly elected as our next president-- why do you care whether people wait for the rubber stamp certification on the appointed date? Relax. It is a fait accompli, no? You're like someone whose team is winning 38-3 with 58 seconds to play demanding that they stop the game and declare a winner. Chill. As you see it, your guy won and there can be no doubt about it. So why are you the one who is so hot and bothered about going through the motions?

Charles Austin

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 13606
    • View Profile
    • Charles is Coloring
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #286 on: November 11, 2020, 11:37:57 AM »
Because, Peter, your side has frequently and continually attempted to put an end to those "motions" or to declare that they do not matter, or - through lies and wild statements - tries to cast doubt on the entire process.
Because it is important to draw attention to the seriousness of these matters and to the scary specter of a defeated President, bunkered down in the White House, ignoring his advisors,  who says he will still have campaign rallies, who says that the whole election process is invalid and who previously spoke of never accepting the results of an election that he lost.
Now, part of me says that in reality he is too much of a coward to act on his biggest and most traitorous claims, but I still worry.
Do you know that there are folks around Palm Beach and his Castle Mar-a-Lago who are saying that he never actually had the virus?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 11:40:58 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Back home from Sioux City after three days and a pleasant reunion of the East High School class of - can you believe it! - 1959.

aletheist

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1549
  • Greek aletheia = truth
    • View Profile
    • Catechism Devotional
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #287 on: November 11, 2020, 11:41:26 AM »
The left is quite frankly totalitarian in their view points ...
Last night I started reading Rod Dreher's new book, Live Not by Lies: A Manual for Christian Dissidents. His diagnosis of "soft totalitarianism" strikes me as on the mark, imposed not by government repression but by voluntary (though perhaps unwitting) embrace; as he puts it, more Brave New World than Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Edit: Corrected author.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 06:11:12 PM by aletheist »
Jon Alan Schmidt, LCMS Layman

"We believe, teach and confess that by conserving the distinction between Law and Gospel as an especially glorious light
with great diligence in the Church, the Word of God is rightly divided according to the admonition of St. Paul." (FC Ep V.2)

Randy Bosch

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #288 on: November 11, 2020, 11:42:27 AM »
When are you moving to Georgia to vote in the run-offs?
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/11/democrats-openly-urge-people-to-commit-voter-fraud-by-temporarily-moving-to-georgia/

I disagree with the headline (do all headline writers belong to the Stephen King School of Headline Writing?), but the story is
the story.  Perhaps not dissimilar to the reported busloads of students and campaign supporters descending on the Iowa caucasus election after election and participating in how "Iowans" pick candidates...

David Garner

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
    • View Profile
    • For He is Good and Loves Mankind
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #289 on: November 11, 2020, 11:52:41 AM »
Because, Peter, your side has frequently and continually attempted to put an end to those "motions" or to declare that they do not matter, or - through lies and wild statements - tries to cast doubt on the entire process.
Because it is important to draw attention to the seriousness of these matters and to the scary specter of a defeated President, bunkered down in the White House, ignoring his advisors,  who says he will still have campaign rallies, who says that the whole election process is invalid and who previously spoke of never accepting the results of an election that he lost.
Now, part of me says that in reality he is too much of a coward to act on his biggest and most traitorous claims, but I still worry.
Do you know that there are folks around Palm Beach and his Castle Mar-a-Lago who are saying that he never actually had the virus?

Gosh, I'll be glad when Joe Biden and the Democrats are in office so the process can proceed without doubt.  I mean, they would never organize an investigation into Russian interference that comes up dry, then impeach the president knowing he would not be removed from office.  Surely they wouldn't claim that the election was stolen like so many Republicans are foolishly doing now, and try to delegitimize the election results......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

And I just KNOW they would not file lawsuits and demand recounts......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida

Do you know how I know these things?  Because I live in Georgia, and I asked our governor, Stacey Abrams.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-stacey-abrams-still-wont-concede-194648579.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADCgOzVJGeYUSr3zNcUG2ggR88O4tbtWouCLVpCVeKCSlKlLlfk8PtX7PL82jqFNQqWfr4lccnTUiJKrVShFjqk9awnC2iCIchGCFliQRnKiotCtwKQHNGS8HzmIHhnE4WKHTyk0SljizHndtkR6GxIppZ2ajpoUte9TNE7xM-IQ
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 43175
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #290 on: November 11, 2020, 12:03:29 PM »
Here we meet an impasse ... I believe trust but verify ... one person, one ballot, one vote. 


There are numerous checks to make sure that one person can cast only one ballot, as Charles noted from his experience.

Quote
The idea that more than one ballot can be routinely mailed to a single voter is entirely mind boggling from a control standpoint.  But then no doubt you will some how believe that photo positive photo ID for in person voting suppressed voting ... the idea that one can function today without a photo id is troubling as well.


At least in every church I've served, we always had more wafers and filled wine glasses than the number of people who communed. We didn't try to prepare just the right number for those who had filled out the communion registration cards. Although, at one congregation, they gave the ushers the same number of cards to hand out as the number of pre-filled communion shots. If they ran out of cards as people gathered, the altar guild quickly filled more glasses.


Making sure that there is enough ballots and that every registered voter has an opportunity to vote can mean that there will be duplications on ballots that are sent. That is not a crime. Keeping a registered voter from getting a ballot is a crime. There are also enough safe guards to assure that no one can vote more than once.


If photo IDs were really important, we would have them on credit cards, as the Japanese do. I saw that on the credit card of a Japanese friend who came to visit us.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 17553
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #291 on: November 11, 2020, 12:10:03 PM »
Because, Peter, your side has frequently and continually attempted to put an end to those "motions" or to declare that they do not matter, or - through lies and wild statements - tries to cast doubt on the entire process.
Because it is important to draw attention to the seriousness of these matters and to the scary specter of a defeated President, bunkered down in the White House, ignoring his advisors,  who says he will still have campaign rallies, who says that the whole election process is invalid and who previously spoke of never accepting the results of an election that he lost.
Now, part of me says that in reality he is too much of a coward to act on his biggest and most traitorous claims, but I still worry.
Do you know that there are folks around Palm Beach and his Castle Mar-a-Lago who are saying that he never actually had the virus?

Gosh, I'll be glad when Joe Biden and the Democrats are in office so the process can proceed without doubt.  I mean, they would never organize an investigation into Russian interference that comes up dry, then impeach the president knowing he would not be removed from office.  Surely they wouldn't claim that the election was stolen like so many Republicans are foolishly doing now, and try to delegitimize the election results......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

And I just KNOW they would not file lawsuits and demand recounts......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida

Do you know how I know these things?  Because I live in Georgia, and I asked our governor, Stacey Abrams.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-stacey-abrams-still-wont-concede-194648579.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADCgOzVJGeYUSr3zNcUG2ggR88O4tbtWouCLVpCVeKCSlKlLlfk8PtX7PL82jqFNQqWfr4lccnTUiJKrVShFjqk9awnC2iCIchGCFliQRnKiotCtwKQHNGS8HzmIHhnE4WKHTyk0SljizHndtkR6GxIppZ2ajpoUte9TNE7xM-IQ
Hey, if you send me a few ballots I'll be glad to vote in your senate runoff elections!  ;)

John_Hannah

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5368
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #292 on: November 11, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »

Let's focus on reality. On today. On looking towards tomorrow. Is that so hard?
Here is the deal today. Biden is the President-Elect. He has won the election. Nothing is likely to change that.

How do you know so many things that so many other people don't know? Do you have inside information, or do you simply assume that the media is unbiased? Again, if all you say is true-- Biden is incontrovertibly elected as our next president-- why do you care whether people wait for the rubber stamp certification on the appointed date? Relax. It is a fait accompli, no? You're like someone whose team is winning 38-3 with 58 seconds to play demanding that they stop the game and declare a winner. Chill. As you see it, your guy won and there can be no doubt about it. So why are you the one who is so hot and bothered about going through the motions?

You are right. It is not a "big deal." Nonetheless Trump's behavior is contrary to what every Republican candidate has done before in losing. It is just another example of the "cancel culture" spreading every where today.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 17553
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #293 on: November 11, 2020, 12:14:24 PM »

Do you know that there are folks around Palm Beach and his Castle Mar-a-Lago who are saying that he never actually had the virus?
So? There are all kinds of people saying all kinds of things. Do find it even remotely believable that he might never have had the virus? If not, why post it? If so, why get so uptight that other people find other seeming absurdities at least remotely believable?

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 43175
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #294 on: November 11, 2020, 12:14:32 PM »
I wonder, Pastor Fienen, how it was with call committees or interviews for perspective pastors in your synod for the 5, 10 or 15 years following the schism of the 1970s. Donít you think candidates mightíve been asked where they were and what they did from 1969 to 1975? I know some Seminex graduates got calls within the Missouri Synod. I know some were refused calls. Isnít where one was and what one did during a certain period of time relevant for employment?
So, Seminex is not quite forgotten yet.


You make the comparison of those who walked out of the seminary which had called them to teach or in which they had enrolled in defiance of the administration that had been properly and legally established to govern that institution and in defiance of the the church body and its teachings which had established the seminary and administered it and the properly elected administration of that church body to form a rogue seminary that claimed governance independent of the church body and sought to prepare pastors for that church body independent of the church body and not subject to that church body's supervision to those who worked for the Trump administration.

Those who attended Seminex (and those who taught there) were in open defiance of and rebellion against those who had been duly placed in authority over them. You may or may not agree that rebellion was justified and necessary but that is a different question. Surely, after such rebellion questions are in order.

Are you claiming that Trump was not the legitimate president or that he was not legally elected to that office and that those who worked in that administration were working for an illegitimate government? Do you claim that those who worked in or supported his administration were in rebellion against the duly authorized administration of our nation?

Would it have been legitimate for Trump's administration to have asked a "ton of questions" before hiring people who had worked in the Obama administration? What sort of questions?


You remember the history a bit differently than I do. As I recall, it was much like the present situation. When the synod president couldn't get the seminary board (the ones who are in charge of the seminary) to do things his way, he worked at getting them replaced with people who would do his bidding. (Sound familiar?) There was rhetoric about heretical professors, but besides Tietjen, no names nor evidence was presented about who were heretical and who were not. (Does making claims without names or evidence sound familiar?)


If the students didn't know which classes they should take and which to avoid, they decided to avoid all the classes to make sure that they weren't being taught by heretics.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 43175
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #295 on: November 11, 2020, 12:18:29 PM »
For that reason, I tend to trust Project Veritas because their m.o. us to go under cover and get real recordings, which they then share. That having been said, i would be surprised (but not stunned) if it turns out Trump won the election.


As I recall, they edited their recordings to make sure they said what they wanted them to say.


While it wasn't them, I remember a video that was circulated of a lady in Georgia (I believe) that took her words so out of context, that it had her saying the opposite of what the words in context were saying. She lost her job over the edited video.


Showing the tape of something doesn't necessarily prove anything.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Donald_Kirchner

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 11527
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #296 on: November 11, 2020, 12:20:24 PM »
Nonetheless Trump's behavior is contrary to what every Republican candidate has done before in losing. It is just another example of the "cancel culture" spreading every where today.

An example of the cancel culture? How so?
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but itís not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 17553
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #297 on: November 11, 2020, 12:22:29 PM »

Let's focus on reality. On today. On looking towards tomorrow. Is that so hard?
Here is the deal today. Biden is the President-Elect. He has won the election. Nothing is likely to change that.

How do you know so many things that so many other people don't know? Do you have inside information, or do you simply assume that the media is unbiased? Again, if all you say is true-- Biden is incontrovertibly elected as our next president-- why do you care whether people wait for the rubber stamp certification on the appointed date? Relax. It is a fait accompli, no? You're like someone whose team is winning 38-3 with 58 seconds to play demanding that they stop the game and declare a winner. Chill. As you see it, your guy won and there can be no doubt about it. So why are you the one who is so hot and bothered about going through the motions?

You are right. It is not a "big deal." Nonetheless Trump's behavior is contrary to what every Republican candidate has done before in losing. It is just another example of the "cancel culture" spreading every where today.

Peace, JOHN
The margins in Wisconsin, Arizona, and Georgia (which would swing the presidency to Trump by rendering a 269-269 tie and sending the race to the House) are within the general automatic recount range of about a half a percent. The vote differential in the three states combined is less that the vote differential by which Stacy Abrams lost the Georgia governor race, and she still thinks she won. It seemed on election day that Trump would win. It seemed the next day like Biden would win. Nothing has changed, but there is no reason not to let it play out. Trump is unlike every Republican predecessor in a good way-- he insists on leaving it all on the field, which is something he owes to his supporters. So let the lawsuits have their day in court. If they are frivolous, they'll get thrown out. Let the recounts happen. If the vote count is on the up and up, the numbers won't change. It just seems to me that the all-hands-on-deck insistence that everyone recognize it is over is really coming from a position of angst that it just might not be over.

Coach-Rev

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
  • Rev. Jeff Cottingham, STS
    • View Profile
    • Trinity Lutheran Church
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #298 on: November 11, 2020, 12:23:49 PM »

Do you know that there are folks around Palm Beach and his Castle Mar-a-Lago who are saying that he never actually had the virus?
So? There are all kinds of people saying all kinds of things. Do find it even remotely believable that he might never have had the virus? If not, why post it? If so, why get so uptight that other people find other seeming absurdities at least remotely believable?

I would add that considering he was hospitalized at Walter Reed for several days, reported by even the most liberal of outlets that even Charles would believe,  it's seems foolish to even post such an absurd claim.  Sorry for quoting you, but since Charles is now on 'ignore," I only see his posts when someone quotes them. Sadly, I've seen just about all of them still.  I wonder why that is?
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

blog:  http://coach-rev.blogspot.com/
photography:  https://jeffcottingham.smugmug.com/

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 43175
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #299 on: November 11, 2020, 12:24:02 PM »
Even given the awaited certification of a new administration, those actually concerned about the health and functioning of our democracy and ease of voting would be the first to applaud a bi-partisan post-election check-up by elected folk to evaluate the way things worked (not how people voted, not who won or lost) in each jurisdiction and nation-wide to help improve accuracy and timeliness, as well as to disprove the claims about fraudulent voting.


Every state has already had a bipartisan group evaluating the election as it happened. Such evaluations belong to the states not the federal government.

Quote
Simply stating that there is no need to have a thorough and transparent post-election evaluation by proper authorities because your guy or my gal won an election is a bit like not having a health check-up or not tuning up your car's engine and checking everything out at reasonable intervals because my body and my car got me where I wanted to go all Summer long.


The proper authorities are the state election boards; not the Justice Department, unless there is evidence that the election boards were corrupt in carrying out their duties and broke federal laws.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]