Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 56011 times)

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #240 on: November 10, 2020, 05:21:17 PM »
"Peace Train Derailed?"

"Biden calls for unity, but some fellow Democrats contradict message with spite toward Trump supporters"

"'You can't heal or reform the GOP who are now an extremist party,' Wajahat Ali, a contributing writer for the New York Times, said. 'They have to be broken, burned down and rebuilt. When Biden is in power treat them like the active threats to democracy they are. If those who committed crimes aren't punished then they will be more emboldened.'

...

Some have advocated for a 'truth and reconciliation commission' to go after those who have worked for the president. In fact, a group to catalog those individuals already exists, called the "Trump Accountability Project."

Michael Simon, who previously worked on the 2008 Obama campaign and in the former president's administration, pledged the project would provide a 'record of every staffer, appointee, donor, [endorses] and enabler.'

But some on the left attacked not only political types who might have worked with or for Trump and the Trump GOP, but also the president's rank-and-file supporters.

Billionaire Mark Cuban appeared to attempt to extend an olive branch to Trump supporters on Twitter, saying that "The overwhelming majority of Trump voters are NOT stupid, not racist, not anti-science... Mocking, gloating and holding grudges divides us further. We need to start talking again and come together as Americans."

'I won’t empathize with, support, forgive, understand, make amends for, reconcile with Trump supporters. Not a single one," tweeted Preston Mitchum, a liberal community organizer in Washington, D.C. "He was a proud white nationalist who proudly raised up many white supremacists. That’s who supported him. And I make no apologies for saying this.'

The disconnect between Biden's unity message and the anger toward Trump supporters from some in his party is a microcosm of the Democratic Party heading into 2021.

When filling his administration and setting priorities, Biden will have to balance his moderate campaign rhetoric and predilection for bipartisanship with a vocal left-wing of his party that wants to bring about "the most progressive agenda our country has ever seen," in the words of Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn." [emphasis added]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-calls-for-unity-but-some-fellow-democrats-contradict-message-with-spite-toward-trump-supporters

« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 05:23:39 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
Pr. Don Kirchner

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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #241 on: November 10, 2020, 05:49:55 PM »
My wife and I won a relatively small jackpot.

We discussed what we were going to do with our winnings. My wife suggested we save it. I suggested that we buy a new pickup truck. We decided to vote on it. We did and remained deadlocked, 1-1, until a little past midnight when 139,000 votes came in for the pickup.

My wife is suspicious...


Someone will have to check the signatures and voter id numbers for those 139,000 votes.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

James J Eivan

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #242 on: November 10, 2020, 07:17:54 PM »
My wife and I won a relatively small jackpot.

We discussed what we were going to do with our winnings. My wife suggested we save it. I suggested that we buy a new pickup truck. We decided to vote on it. We did and remained deadlocked, 1-1, until a little past midnight when 139,000 votes came in for the pickup.

My wife is suspicious...
Someone will have to check the signatures and voter id numbers for those 139,000 votes.
Unless you are in Pennsylvania ... seems they don’t care about signatures and legible post marks.🤭

James J Eivan

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #243 on: November 10, 2020, 07:41:09 PM »
When will honest Republicans With access to the president or any adult who might still be in the White House or near the president tell him that this is over? His selfish petulance is actually hurting the nation.

1. Al Gore didn't concede until more than 30 days after what used to be known as "Election Day".
2. "Conceding" is not in the Constitution.
3. "Conceding" does not end the lawful count of ballots, their certification by each State, or the action of the Electoral College.
4.  If Joe Biden won, it doesn't matter if Don Trump concedes or not.
5.  What is the history of transition cooperation?  Trump didn't get much of it in 2016-17 from the outgoing Administration, and it showed.  In my opinion, absolute cooperation and transparency is essential, except that I don't think it is either wise or lawful to share the nuclear codes, provide open access to ongoing negotiations for hostage releases, to open the book on active military operations, to pick rather globally relevant examples, until we officially have a new President installed.
6. The office of the “President Elect” is neither a constitutional office ... nor has it ever been previously used in the manner it is currently being used. In the past we have referred to the winner of the presidential election as the president elect’ ... never has there been the media hyped “Office of the President-elect been used.

Previously the media reported the news ... currently they are orchestrating the news.

The idea that this is hurting the nation is fictitious nonsense ... it would seem that it would advantageous to the Biden camp to actively encourage any and all reasonable investigation(s).

The Biden camp has nothing to loose to allow reasonable investigations to prove the validity of the election results.

As noted above, the concession came 30 days following the election ... and miraculously the country survived.

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #244 on: November 10, 2020, 07:52:21 PM »
I think we will have to try to understand some of the truly (and valid) hard feelings that some will have about those who have enabled the president for the past four years. We don't have to declare them "right," we don't have to listen to all of them, but we have to understand why and how they feel the way they do.
Personally, were I in a position to encounter or employ or otherwise endorse someone who had been in the Trump administration, I would ask a ton of questions about what they did in that administration, why they did it and whether they agreed with everything they did. I do not think that is unreasonable.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

James J Eivan

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #245 on: November 10, 2020, 08:01:14 PM »
One positive I see coming from the legal challenges is that they shine the spotlight on a perennial problem. They find hundreds of dead people voted. Okay. Not going to change the result in any state. But who mailed those envelopes? Who filled in the ballots? It is a felony to cast a fraudulent vote. What is being done to find the person who deliberately mailed in an illegal vote and to make sure they pay a big enough price to deter others?
There are several investigations in Texas. One that has proceeded to formal charges is a person charged with 134 counts of election fraud:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/11/06/texas-social-worker-charged-counts-election-fraud/

This is exactly why mass mail-in ballots are an awful idea.
Local radio today had a caller who said his daughter had lived in Oregon for years… and voted in resident in Oregon this year… However to Oregon mail ballots were sent to her former out-of-state home where she grew up.

It was particularly distressing to find out that this man’s daughter has never lived at home since she had established her residency in Oregon. Why were ballots sent to an out-of-state address when she was clearly currently a resident of the state of Oregon?

I’m not doubting the outcome of the Oregon election… That’s part of the blue western wall ... but demonstrates why there is massive doubt about the blanket mailing of ballots.

Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #246 on: November 10, 2020, 08:14:55 PM »
Personally, were I in a position to encounter or employ or otherwise endorse someone who had been in the Trump administration, I would ask a ton of questions about what they did in that administration, why they did it and whether they agreed with everything they did. I do not think that is unreasonable.
One needs to be careful here ... locally a few years ago there was great talk on ‘ban the box’ ... not allowing prospective employers to ask about previous criminal convictions.If employers are prohibited from asking about criminal history, why should job prospects be screened based on political affiliation?  At what point does the cancel culture become a discrimination culture?

Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #247 on: November 10, 2020, 08:16:55 PM »
I think we will have to try to understand some of the truly (and valid) hard feelings that some will have about those who have enabled the president for the past four years. We don't have to declare them "right," we don't have to listen to all of them, but we have to understand why and how they feel the way they do.
Personally, were I in a position to encounter or employ or otherwise endorse someone who had been in the Trump administration, I would ask a ton of questions about what they did in that administration, why they did it and whether they agreed with everything they did. I do not think that is unreasonable.
Can you be equally understanding of the hard feelings that some will have about those who they think were unfair to President Trump during this last four years and to those who supported him? Or does your understanding and calls for understanding only go one way?
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Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #248 on: November 10, 2020, 08:58:07 PM »
One positive I see coming from the legal challenges is that they shine the spotlight on a perennial problem. They find hundreds of dead people voted. Okay. Not going to change the result in any state. But who mailed those envelopes? Who filled in the ballots? It is a felony to cast a fraudulent vote. What is being done to find the person who deliberately mailed in an illegal vote and to make sure they pay a big enough price to deter others?

There are several investigations in Texas. One that has proceeded to formal charges is a person charged with 134 counts of election fraud:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/11/06/texas-social-worker-charged-counts-election-fraud/

This is exactly why mass mail-in ballots are an awful idea.

I found this:

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

It doesn't speak to the current election but does show evidence of fraud and law enforcement addressing the problem.
I serve as administrator for www.churchhistoryreview.org.

JEdwards

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #249 on: November 10, 2020, 09:20:25 PM »
There are several investigations in Texas. One that has proceeded to formal charges is a person charged with 134 counts of election fraud:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/11/06/texas-social-worker-charged-counts-election-fraud/

This is exactly why mass mail-in ballots are an awful idea.
Hmmmm... Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to assume that President Trump really won Texas.

JEdwards

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #250 on: November 10, 2020, 09:32:12 PM »
I think that it is more accurate to say that the young generations, the late teens and twenty somethings tend to be more rigid in their thinking than those who have more experience and seen the need for more flexibility in thinking. That may mean that the young are more rigid in their progressive ideology or conservative ideology. The young also tend to be more impatient. It is from younger legislators and younger people that the demand for a rapid transition to a zero carbon economy has arisen. Do it now, no matter what the cost (they're used to others footing the cost for what they want) or the impracticalities involved. I remember back in the 90s (I think) that the standing joke was that the aging hippies from the 60s who were now in their 40s or 50s, early 60s were appalled at their super buttoned down, conservative teenaged children. Think Michael J. Fox in Family Ties. (It was also the aging boomers who insisted on contemporary worship "for the sake of the youth" who actually were rarely as interested as their boomer elders. The boomers insisted that the young wanted what the boomers had wanted when they were that age.)
The comment that I have bolded is often true of the younger generation, but there is also a sense in which it is true of the older generations.  After all, America's recent economic prosperity has been paid for, at least in part, by passing on debt and (at least arguably) environmental costs to future generations. 

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #251 on: November 10, 2020, 10:26:17 PM »
From the Washington Post my emphasis added
Six states where President Trump has threatened to challenge his defeat continued their march toward declaring certified election results in the coming weeks, as his advisers privately acknowledged that President-elect Joe Biden’s official victory is less a question of “if” than “when.”
   Trump began the day tweeting about “BALLOT COUNTING ABUSE” as he and his allies touted unproven claims that fraud had tainted the election in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Vice President Pence gave a presentation to Republican senators on Capitol Hill about new litigation expected in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Georgia — imploring them to stick with the president, according to several Republicans in the room.
   But even some of the president’s most publicly pugilistic aides, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and informal adviser Corey Lewandowski, have said privately that they are concerned about the lawsuits’ chances for success unless more evidence surfaces, according to people familiar with their views.
   Trump met with advisers again Tuesday afternoon to discuss whether there is a path forward, said a person with knowledge of the discussions, who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions. The person said Trump plans to keep fighting but understands it is going to be difficult. “He is all over the place. It changes from hour to hour,” the person said.
   In the states, Democratic and some Republican officials said they have seen no evidence of fraud on a scale sufficient to overturn the results. “There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud,” one GOP official in Georgia said.
...
Later in the story
On Tuesday, Trump — who has not appeared in public in five days — continued to question the integrity of the count and refused to allow Biden’s transition officially to begin.
“WE ARE MAKING BIG PROGRESS. RESULTS START TO COME IN NEXT WEEK. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!” he tweeted around 8:45 a.m.
The whole story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-challenges-state-count/2020/11/10/45148fac-2378-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html


Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #252 on: November 10, 2020, 10:37:30 PM »
From the Washington Post my emphasis added
Six states where President Trump has threatened to challenge his defeat continued their march toward declaring certified election results in the coming weeks, as his advisers privately acknowledged that President-elect Joe Biden’s official victory is less a question of “if” than “when.”
   Trump began the day tweeting about “BALLOT COUNTING ABUSE” as he and his allies touted unproven claims that fraud had tainted the election in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Vice President Pence gave a presentation to Republican senators on Capitol Hill about new litigation expected in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Georgia — imploring them to stick with the president, according to several Republicans in the room.
   But even some of the president’s most publicly pugilistic aides, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and informal adviser Corey Lewandowski, have said privately that they are concerned about the lawsuits’ chances for success unless more evidence surfaces, according to people familiar with their views.
   Trump met with advisers again Tuesday afternoon to discuss whether there is a path forward, said a person with knowledge of the discussions, who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions. The person said Trump plans to keep fighting but understands it is going to be difficult. “He is all over the place. It changes from hour to hour,” the person said.
   In the states, Democratic and some Republican officials said they have seen no evidence of fraud on a scale sufficient to overturn the results. “There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud,” one GOP official in Georgia said.
...
Later in the story
On Tuesday, Trump — who has not appeared in public in five days — continued to question the integrity of the count and refused to allow Biden’s transition officially to begin.
“WE ARE MAKING BIG PROGRESS. RESULTS START TO COME IN NEXT WEEK. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!” he tweeted around 8:45 a.m.
The whole story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-challenges-state-count/2020/11/10/45148fac-2378-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html
What does this change? Why does it matter? If you were confident that everything in this article were accurate, you wouldn’t waste your time posting it.

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #253 on: November 10, 2020, 10:42:55 PM »
Postal worker says he lied An affidavit about fraud
From the New York Times And almost every other news agency in the country
The Postal Service’s inspector general informed Congress on Tuesday that a worker who had made unfounded allegations of ballot corruption inside a facility in Erie, Pa., had disavowed his claims, which Republicans had amplified to suggest there was widespread fraud in Pennsylvania’s voting.
   Richard Hopkins, a post office employee in Erie, “completely” recanted allegations that a supervisor was “tampering with mail-in ballots” after investigators questioned him, the inspector general’s office said, according to the Democratic leadership of the House Oversight and Reform Committee.
   Mr. Hopkins had claimed in a sworn affidavit given to President Trump’s campaign that he overheard what he believed to be a discussion about the backdating of postmarks on ballots that arrived at the postal facility after Election Day.
   Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, who has urged Mr. Trump to continue to fight the results of the election, sent Mr. Hopkins’s affidavit to reporters along with a statement that read in part: “I will not allow credible allegations of voting irregularities or misconduct to be swept under the rug.” He later acknowledged in a television interview on Sunday that the claims he circulated were unverified.
   Mr. Hopkins could not be reached for comment over the weekend.
   The inspector general’s office told Congress that Mr. Hopkins had recanted his allegations on Monday but “did not explain why he signed a false affidavit,” according to the oversight committee’s staff.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #254 on: November 10, 2020, 10:51:20 PM »
Postal worker says he lied An affidavit about fraud
From the New York Times And almost every other news agency in the country
The Postal Service’s inspector general informed Congress on Tuesday that a worker who had made unfounded allegations of ballot corruption inside a facility in Erie, Pa., had disavowed his claims, which Republicans had amplified to suggest there was widespread fraud in Pennsylvania’s voting.
   Richard Hopkins, a post office employee in Erie, “completely” recanted allegations that a supervisor was “tampering with mail-in ballots” after investigators questioned him, the inspector general’s office said, according to the Democratic leadership of the House Oversight and Reform Committee.
   Mr. Hopkins had claimed in a sworn affidavit given to President Trump’s campaign that he overheard what he believed to be a discussion about the backdating of postmarks on ballots that arrived at the postal facility after Election Day.
   Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, who has urged Mr. Trump to continue to fight the results of the election, sent Mr. Hopkins’s affidavit to reporters along with a statement that read in part: “I will not allow credible allegations of voting irregularities or misconduct to be swept under the rug.” He later acknowledged in a television interview on Sunday that the claims he circulated were unverified.
   Mr. Hopkins could not be reached for comment over the weekend.
   The inspector general’s office told Congress that Mr. Hopkins had recanted his allegations on Monday but “did not explain why he signed a false affidavit,” according to the oversight committee’s staff.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/11/10/leaked-audio-shows-usps-ig-attempting-to-twist-a-whistleblowers-complaint-of-a-n2579867

A quote from the postal worker in question: "At the very moment I'm looking at an article written by The Washington Post. It says that I 'fabricated the allegations of ballot tampering.' I'm here to say that I did not recant my statements," Hopkins said. "That did not happen. It is not what happened."

He called on WaPo to recant their story, saying it's false.