Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 55842 times)

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #120 on: November 09, 2020, 08:30:31 AM »
Regarding masks - For the record I wear one all the time.  More now than I did in the beginning.  I've even started wearing a KN95 mask for extra protection.  I had a lady at my last funeral - the soloist - who called me on Friday to inform me of COVID-like symptoms (test results still outstanding, as far as I know).  I've been having members of my parish coming down with it.  I buried a member who died from it.  So I see the value and follow my governor's order.

But I know this is a divisive issue, which for some people is a freedom issue.  I don't agree with it, as you can see from my own practice, but I realize folks out there do not feel the same about it. I also know that the governor's mask mandate in Wisconsin not only experienced some push back from leaders on the other side of the aisle, but it also appears virtually unenforceable.  The CDC is already on record and has been for a long time about the value of wearing masks.  Biden was very open about wearing a mask during the election.  My sense is that strong encouragement and personal example from his position is what is needed, not an attempt at invoking a law-like force that may only anger a number of people and exacerbate his efforts to bring "unity and healing." 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #121 on: November 09, 2020, 08:36:18 AM »
But he has a much, much wider margin (in his favor) in the popular vote, than the previous president had. That suggests that the people of the United States would like to see many of Trump's policies changed...
Remember, Trump did not receive a majority of the popular vote. Bided did. You seem to assume that a majority of people approved of what Trump did. I don't think that's true. Rather, his actions (supported by a minority,) caused some of the division were are experiencing.

As I noted in a previous post, 47.7% of the vote counted thus far went for Trump.  Regardless of how you want to measure that 'margin,' it represents nearly 71 million people.  Their views count, too.  Now if Biden wants to govern seeking unity he will consider that sizeable and significant number regardless of his 'margin.' And if he wants to see the House maintain its majority in two years he will consider that number.  He will govern with a House having a thinner majority than they did before.  That will not make passing laws any easier.  I don't think that a leader who makes a lot of unity and healing can disregard so many people.  He can, it's his prerogative.  But it would be disingenuous and not wise.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #122 on: November 09, 2020, 08:41:02 AM »
Pastor Engebretson:
My sense is that strong encouragement and personal example from his position is what is needed, not an attempt at invoking a law-like force that may only anger a number of people and exacerbate his efforts to bring "unity and healing."
Me:
Yes. Maybe. Probably.
But if too many go maskless...
the “enforcement” may have to come from retailers. “You want to shop at Target/Walmart/Costco? Put on a mask. And if you are not wearing it properly inside, out you go.”
P. S. Biden has said, about a million times, that he would pay attention to those who did not vote for him, That he would be a president for all Americans. Do we believe him? If so, why keep bringing it up?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

wmattsfield

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #123 on: November 09, 2020, 08:59:23 AM »
Quote
P. S. Biden has said, about a million times, that he would pay attention to those who did not vote for him, That he would be a president for all Americans. Do we believe him? If so, why keep bringing it up?
We are uncertain about this because we also hear talk about a mandate to implement his policies as though there is no opposition to them. He can have his polices without compromise or he can pay attention to those who voted against him - but not both.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #124 on: November 09, 2020, 09:06:18 AM »
Pastor Engebretson:
My sense is that strong encouragement and personal example from his position is what is needed, not an attempt at invoking a law-like force that may only anger a number of people and exacerbate his efforts to bring "unity and healing."
Me:
Yes. Maybe. Probably.
But if too many go maskless...
the “enforcement” may have to come from retailers. “You want to shop at Target/Walmart/Costco? Put on a mask. And if you are not wearing it properly inside, out you go.”
P. S. Biden has said, about a million times, that he would pay attention to those who did not vote for him, That he would be a president for all Americans. Do we believe him? If so, why keep bringing it up?
If he is president, he will be president for all Americans. So was Trump. So was Obama. So was Bush. We only have one president at a time. Some presidents, like Trump and Obama, ram through what they want via executive order or via 100% partisan legislation. Others, like Clinton and Bush, hesitate to do anything major without some bipartisan support.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #125 on: November 09, 2020, 09:17:08 AM »
Pastor Engebretson:
My sense is that strong encouragement and personal example from his position is what is needed, not an attempt at invoking a law-like force that may only anger a number of people and exacerbate his efforts to bring "unity and healing."
Me:
Yes. Maybe. Probably.
But if too many go maskless...
the “enforcement” may have to come from retailers. “You want to shop at Target/Walmart/Costco? Put on a mask. And if you are not wearing it properly inside, out you go.”
P. S. Biden has said, about a million times, that he would pay attention to those who did not vote for him, That he would be a president for all Americans. Do we believe him? If so, why keep bringing it up?

I echo what the previous posters said, and add only that Biden has made much of wanting to bring unity and healing to a divided electorate and country.  I want to believe him. But as I noted before, his first actions will either demonstrate the sincerity of that promise or show it to be political rhetoric. Right now I'm getting mixed signals. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over.
« Reply #126 on: November 09, 2020, 09:27:17 AM »
Wmattsfield writes:
We are uncertain about this because we also hear talk about a mandate to implement his policies as though there is no opposition to them

I comment:
Tell me where you are hearing this, and from whom? If there are specific people talking such “talk” as you report, I will personally write them an email or a letter or something and tell them they are saying foolish things. But I’m willing to bet you’re not hearing that “talk” from Biden or his close advisers.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #127 on: November 09, 2020, 09:53:20 AM »
P. S. Biden has said, about a million times, that he would pay attention to those who did not vote for him, That he would be a president for all Americans. Do we believe him? If so, why keep bringing it up?
Actions speak louder than words. We all know what he said and says. Now we will see how he acts.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
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James J Eivan

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #128 on: November 09, 2020, 09:55:15 AM »
Quote
P. S. Biden has said, about a million times, that he would pay attention to those who did not vote for him, That he would be a president for all Americans. Do we believe him? If so, why keep bringing it up?
We are uncertain about this because we also hear talk about a mandate to implement his policies as though there is no opposition to them. He can have his polices without compromise or he can pay attention to those who voted against him - but not both.
Receiving 50.7 percent of the popular vote is hardly a mandate ... receiving fewer electoral votes than President Trump in 2016 is even less of a mandate since the progressives have incessantly dissed the 2016 election results.

Talk of mandate with 50.7 of the vote is hardly unifying ... and clearly reveals the hypocrisy of some. Perhaps this is simply political posturing during this time before the vote is officially certified. 

Thus far the ‘victory’ has only been announced by biased media sources desiring to be the news rather than to report the news.

By the way, the Stoffregen statement ‘ But he has a much, much wider margin (in his favor) in the popular vote, than the previous president had. That suggests that the people of the United States would like to see many of Trump's policies changed.’ hardly sounds unifying ... much less the desire to work together ... and much more like the childish ‘I won rant’.

Any way you cut deliberately spinning the current election number (currently lacking certified results) by speaking of existing margins as ‘much, much wider or as a mandate is hardly a unifying action ... it smacks more of a childish sandbox like rant than any unifying effort.

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #129 on: November 09, 2020, 09:56:42 AM »
Peter writes:
If he is president, he will be president for all Americans. So was Trump. So was Obama. So was Bush. We only have one president at a time. Some presidents, like Trump and Obama, ram through what they want via executive order or via 100% partisan legislation. Others, like Clinton and Bush, hesitate to do anything major without some bipartisan support.
I comment:
Peter, you have a maddening tendency towards literalism that makes it very difficult to continue the conversation.  the issue is not whether Biden is the president of all Americans, it is whether he will act as president of all. And his career in the Senate gives him a track record in bipartisan cooperation.
Now here’s what’s going to happen for some of you. Biden’s administration is going to make a proposal. It will state what they really want. And you will go ballistic and howl about how it is forcing their hard-left agenda on the country. Meanwhile sensible people will take that proposal and begin discussing how it might or might not work and what compromises, repeat compromises, will be necessary to make it work.

Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #130 on: November 09, 2020, 10:00:06 AM »
"Another of [Biden's] welcome campaign messages is one that he repeated Friday: 'We may be opponents, but we are not enemies. We are Americans.'

It’s absolutely the right tone, but some of his key supporters sound more interested in humiliation and revenge than reconciliation.

His spokesman, Andrew Bates, also said Friday in a statement about Trump that “the United States government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House.”

No doubt that played well with the deep-state haters and resistance crowd, but it smacked of juvenile bravado and Bates deserves a visit to the woodshed. By letting the public know he doesn’t approve of such talk, Biden would be affirming his unity pledge to all Americans.

As for Ocasio-Cortez, she is supporting the reprehensible idea of having her side keep lists of Trump supporters, writing on Twitter: 'Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants for when they try to downplay or deny their complicity in the future?'

A group of Never Trumpers echoed the banana-republic notion, saying they aimed to punish the president’s supporters. Jennifer Rubin, the odious Washington Post columnist, wrote that Trump supporters 'should never serve in office, join a corporate board, find a faculty position or be accepted into ‘polite’ society. We have a list.'

The best response Biden could give is to say that he, too, is keeping a list — of those who continue to stir hatred and division and that he denounces them, regardless of how they voted."

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-call-unity-serious-michael-goodwin

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #131 on: November 09, 2020, 10:26:08 AM »
And I would pin a rose  on you, Peter, but I was referring to the people who won’t   wear masks. Or for those who make not wearing masks a big make or break big political deal.
It seems to me you’re making wearing masks a big make or break political deal. And when you attempt to evaluate cultural divides, you far too easily conclude that people are stupid, insane, racist, or some other easy type of person to disregard. You rarely give even a modicum of evidence that you actually understand the people you disagree with. You just write them off. You’ve learned not to use the word deplorable, but you cling bitterly to the general concept.

Rev Speckhard may have just made the post of the year ... and hit the heart of the forum’s decorum problems.

Yes ... deplorable may no longer be used for those who do hold the Austin-esque point of view ... but deplorable has simply been replaced with insane, stupid, ‘banana republic’ and even ‘those out of their darkness’ just to name a few in the past 24 hours to name a few.

The recent ballistic comment is anything but unifying talk.

Furthermore, since your years in Geneva were actually years and/or decades ago ... possible dating back to the previous millennium, things may have changes just a bit ... similar to the bit of change in the ELCA over the past years, decades bad dating to the previous millennium?

Remember ... even an expert wa once a drip under pressure.

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #132 on: November 09, 2020, 10:27:33 AM »
I have removed from this posting comments related to Pastor Kirchner, although in my not so humble opinion, they were reasoned, calm, and gently worded, did not call any names or make any judgements, he says we are not supposed to speak to each other. That of course, gives him the ability to post difficult words about "my side" and deprives me of the ability to respond.
But nuts to it. I removed my words. And so it goes.
Side historical note, pointed out by Beloved Spouse, which I failed to mention earlier. The white pant suit worn by the Vice President-Elect at that victory celebration was a homage to the suffragettes of 100 years ago, who wore white as they were campaigning to get the laws changed so that women could vote. Beloved Spouse also corrects my language if I say women were "given" the right to vote in 1920. "No," she says, "we were not 'given' the vote. We fought for it and we took it."
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 11:32:55 AM by Charles Austin »
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Randy Bosch

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #133 on: November 09, 2020, 10:28:06 AM »
The Senate run-off elections will be a high dollar battle.  To lighten the mood (?),

General William Tecumsah (Chuck) Schumer (New Yorker, not Ohioan like Gen. Sherman) announced yesterday that he and his army of Senate campaign warriors are going to march down and "take Georgia".

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2020, 10:30:52 AM »
Note to all:
I really tire of these personal shots from Julio, who seems obsessed with anything I post. I try to ignore them, and would hope that sensible participants in this modest forum would not consider them a helpful part of the discussion. The most recent post from "Julio" is a prime example.
As is the tagline of another anonymous poster.
Remember, we progressives have feelings, too. Oh, wait, I forgot. Feelings don't matter.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.