Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 58920 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2020, 08:27:04 AM »
I think Biden will likely avoid really antagonizing the senate. He’ll seek to visibly undo some of the mostly symbolic things Trump did. But he’ll tread lightly and talk cooperation. He’s been working with some of these guys since I was in kindergarten. He’s as vanilla and establishment as it gets. Harris is a pure ladder-climber. She’ll claim to be for whatever the issue of the day happens to be. But she is neither likable nor particularly effective as a leader. Assuming the GOP holds the senate, I don’t expect much to change right away in 2021. Not like 2017, when Trump went full throttle trying to shake things up.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2020, 08:28:51 AM »
Biden is the president-elect.  As Republicans we need to support him as our president.  The rhetoric that went around four years ago that "he's not my president" is something we should rise above this time.  But I would hope, if healing and unity is truly desired from Biden and those who support him, that continued negative talk of Trump would cease.  As long as the supposed shortcomings, faults and failures of Trump are brought out over and over, healing and unity will not happen.  He was not perfect, we get that.  He could be bombastic and coarse. We understand.  He was at the center of more than a little divisiveness. We saw that.  But that is past.  If those who support Biden continue to accuse and condemn Trump for his alleged sins, his supporters and those who voted for him - for whatever reason - will remain alienated and isolated from the healing and unity Biden calls for. 

I also hope that the leaders of the respective parties can restart an effort to work together.  Even as of a couple of day ago we continue to see the 'dig in the heels' approach that is a non-starter.  Nancy Pelosi, in commenting on the aid package proposed by Mitch McConnell and the Republicans, said that the Republican's proposed bill, which is narrower in scope than the one proposed by Democrats, "doesn’t appeal to me at all."  Well, that's a way to start the discussion. 

Biden may well be willing to reach across the aisle and work with those on the other side.  But I think he needs to sit down with Pelosi and come out showing a united front of Democratic cooperation and good faith.  Yes, the Republicans should do the same.  But if he's serious about unity and healing it starts at his desk.  As another Democratic president noted by a sign on his desk: "The buck stops here." 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Randy Bosch

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2020, 08:33:55 AM »
Everyone is now declaring Biden the victor in Pennsylvania. The 30 electoral votes give him the presidency.
He is now referred to as president-elect.

Yes, everyone will now refer to him as "president-elect".
Legally, constitutionally, he is not President-Elect until the Electoral College votes him into office.
Your clever lower case use for president-elect is fitting.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2020, 08:42:29 AM »
I realize that some feel Trump is just being stubborn about wanting to proceed with legal actions to guarantee the election was legitimate.  I don't know what to think. My wife was a poll worker at one, small, rural election site, so I'm certainly not an expert on what happened elsewhere.  That said, if this is still a democracy we have the freedom and right to pursue all avenues of redress in the legal system, including all the way to the Supreme Court, if they consent to hear the case. My feeling is that it should run its course. Some may feel it is baseless.  It may be and then it will be done.  But the right to pursue it is there.  Let it be. This also is part of bringing closure.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

James S. Rustad

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2020, 11:14:01 AM »
Are you in despair that such a crud-pile of whining, divisive screaming of unsubstantiated allegations should be poisoning the atmosphere?
Is there credible evidence of massive voter fraud or not? Is the mind behind this piece capable of understanding the explanations of how and why the tally developed? I’m not good with such things, but I can understand it.
Does this person believe that - quickly and quietly overnight - the Democrats took control over vote counting in seven states and faked the results? Then why didn’t they mess with the races for the Senate and the House?
I ask again. Are we looking for a cooperative future or not?
(I might ask where we have had to worry about “banana republic” traits in recent years, but that would not help us look at the future in a peaceful, cooperative way.)

Biden may want to be a unity president, but he will not be able to be one if his supporters keep taking shots at the other side (even if they use your method of taking the shot without taking the shot).  Please rise above this Charles.

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2020, 11:33:18 AM »
Yes, everyone will now refer to him as "president-elect".
Legally, constitutionally, he is not President-Elect until the Electoral College votes him into office.
Your clever lower case use for president-elect is fitting.
In addition to being pleasingly cleaver, it is a proper recognition that NO legal authorities have declared a winner ... in fact ... most likely, no vote totals are final yet.

As one who has worked for an election division, our county vote totals were not final until close of business the Monday following a Tuesday election.

Apparently the biased MSM is usurping the the power of the civil election authorities and Biden is following like an obedient minion.


Biden may want to be a unity president, but he will not be able to be one if his supporters keep taking shots at the other side (even if they use your method of taking the shot without taking the shot).  Please rise above this Charles.
Thank you for pointing this out ... some of the most vociferously repugnant comments made in 2016 were made by those who today are piously calling for unity and cooperation.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 02:24:50 PM by Richard Johnson »

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2020, 11:56:11 AM »
James S. Rustad writes:
Biden may want to be a unity president, but he will not be able to be one if his supporters keep taking shots at the other side (even if they use your method of taking the shot without taking the shot).  Please rise above this Charles.

I comment:
OK. Will try.
But many things must be "set aside" and not used as "shots."
Nonsense about Hilary's emails or Bill's sexual misdeeds.
Bitterness over the impeachment (which your side won).
Things said by relatively minor players among the Democrats.
Overstated and inaccurate descriptions of the street demonstrations this past summer.
Biden's son's business.
Something Biden may have done or said years or even decades ago.
Aspects alleged to be part of the Vice President-Elect's sexual life.
Self-created demons of "antifa" or "BLM" or "The Green New Deal" assaulting our cities and suburbs.
Certain language about abortion or gun control.
What the Obama administration may have done with refugee children.
Overstated fears about "religious freedom."
And unless evidence is presented to courts and adjudicated, blather about election fraud.
And the list could probably go on.
But I will try.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM by Charles Austin »
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Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2020, 11:58:37 AM »
I realize that some feel Trump is just being stubborn about wanting to proceed with legal actions to guarantee the election was legitimate.  I don't know what to think. My wife was a poll worker at one, small, rural election site, so I'm certainly not an expert on what happened elsewhere.  That said, if this is still a democracy we have the freedom and right to pursue all avenues of redress in the legal system, including all the way to the Supreme Court, if they consent to hear the case. My feeling is that it should run its course. Some may feel it is baseless.  It may be and then it will be done.  But the right to pursue it is there.  Let it be. This also is part of bringing closure.
Anything and everything should now and before the next election to guarantee that the faith and confidence in the voting process is restored.

Florida had election results before midnight on Tuesday.  That Pennsylvania took so long indicates, flawed planning, failure to execute a plan, antiquated election law, or simply a desire commit fraud

Landslide Lyndon and the Chicago machine’s mantra ‘Vote Early, Vote Often” are prime examples of election fraud of election fraud in the US.

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2020, 12:05:45 PM »
Someone writes:
Anything and everything should now and before the next election to guarantee that the faith and confidence in the voting process is restored.
I muse:
And who is it that is sowing, through lies and unproven allegations, mistrust of our system? Not Democrats.

Julio again:
Florida had election results before midnight on Tuesday.  That Pennsylvania took so long indicates, flawed planning, failure to execute a plan, antiquated election law, or simply a desire commit fraud
Me:
No, it does not. It indicates the care by which votes were tabulated, recorded and counted. Some states have difficult processes to assure that everything is done correctly. This takes time. To say it is a "desire to commit fraud" is baseless.

Julio again:
Landslide Lyndon and the Chicago machine’s mantra ‘Vote Early, Vote Often” are prime examples of election fraud of election fraud in the US.
Me again:
In Chicago in the 1930s and maybe in Texas a few decades later (the Texas allegations never adjudicated.) So these are not "prime examples" of anything in today's USA. If anything the way we vote today makes it extremely - repeat extremely - difficult to commit fraud.
These fanciful whoops about election fraud this past week are wrong and do not help our healing.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2020, 12:15:00 PM »
We have so much to work through in this coming year that, I, for one, don't have a whole lot of interest in rehashing the past.  If Biden's son is being investigated by the FBI, I will just have to trust that those in charge will do their job and process it properly.  I don't have any power over that.  Bill and Hilary are old news. And as I stated before, it would be good for Democrats to let the past with Trump go and move on.  I know that he will remain in the news for a while, especially with promised lawsuits beginning tomorrow.  But if everyone who voted for Biden is so relieved and overjoyed to have Trump defeated, the least they can do is be a little bit kind by not using that opportunity to drag a yet sitting president through the mud one more time. 

If there are concerns about the election system, then by all means investigate.  We owe it to the American public to always guarantee a secure and trusted system.  But while that is being investigated, I suspect that the transition of power from one president to the other will take place. Whether we agree or not we will soon have a duly sworn in leader of the executive branch.  His first moves will be watched carefully.  The pandemic remains a concern.  I am interested to see what he has planned.  I hope it will be completely transparent and will take in consideration others who may have opposing views.  Again, unity and healing.  It starts with his first executive order. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

James S. Rustad

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2020, 12:29:49 PM »
<deleted some stuff>
Bitterness over the impeachment (which your side won).
As I've pointed out more than once, I am not a Republican nor a Trump supporter.  I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I did vote for Trump in 2020, but only because Biden appeared worse on the issues I cared about.  Given Trump's recent behavior, I wish I had not.

<deleted some more stuff>
But I will try.

I will also.  I hope that we can disagree without being disagreeable.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 12:31:38 PM by James S. Rustad »

Pr. Terry Culler

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2020, 12:43:54 PM »
In 1960 there was a lot of concern that the Illinois election was crooked (surprise, surprise!).  Richard Nixon was told he should contest it but he said it would harm the country to do so.  It is time for President Trump to think of the nation rather than himself.  It's time for him to be presidential.
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Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2020, 12:47:30 PM »
Someone Julio writes:
Anything and everything should now and before the next election to guarantee that the faith and confidence in the voting process is restored.

I muse: And who is it that is sowing, through lies and unproven allegations, mistrust of our system? Not Democrats.
Surely you jest… Why would Democrats question fraud that benefits them?

You fail to acknowledge the pain expressed by many ... most notably RevGalRedux

It’s hard to believe your calls for unity when everyone who disagrees with you is branded a liar or worse.
Quote

Julio again:
Florida had election results before midnight on Tuesday.  That Pennsylvania took so long indicates, flawed planning, failure to execute a plan, antiquated election law, or simply a desire commit fraud
Me:
No, it does not. It indicates the care by which votes were tabulated, recorded and counted. Some states have difficult processes to assure that everything is done correctly. This takes time. To say it is a "desire to commit fraud" is baseless.
You should welcome a full investigation ... if it finds nothing .. you can criticize me and others ... your hue and cry now rings of putrid fear that there is a problem.

By the way ... Unless are you questioning Florida’s results because they were timely … Or because they didn’t go your way.. Welcome any efforts to speed up the process.[/quote]
Quote

Julio again:
Landslide Lyndon and the Chicago machine’s mantra ‘Vote Early, Vote Often” are prime examples of election fraud of election fraud in the US.
Me again:
In Chicago in the 1930s and maybe in Texas a few decades later (the Texas allegations never adjudicated.) So these are not "prime examples" of anything in today's USA. If anything the way we vote today makes it extremely - repeat extremely - difficult to commit fraud.
These fanciful whoops about election fraud this past week are wrong and do not help our healing.

Perhaps you should read historian writings on the life of President Lyndon B. Johnson.  Not only did he steal an election… But he had an earlier election stolen from him.

Sticking your head in the sand and not reading historical biographies does not negate their truth!

JEdwards

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #88 on: November 08, 2020, 01:51:40 PM »
Ross Douthat has an interesting post-mortem.  The gist of it is that at its best, Trumpism represented a potential multiethnic coalition more focused on blue collar workers, social conservatism, and economic populism than previous Republican leaders, a coalition that is now just shy of a majority.  The big question is whether it could be a majority absent Trump's abrasive personality, or whether it would be a smaller minority without Trump's personal appeal to some segments of the coalition:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/opinion/sunday/is-there-a-trumpism-after-trump.html

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #89 on: November 08, 2020, 01:57:35 PM »
So will the demographics of the Trump or No-Trump voters have any long-term consequences?
And demographics may be another form of the supposedly dread "identity politics." Blue Collar worker. White collar worker. College or Grad School. High School Graduate. Income over $100,000. Income under $60,000. Hunter/Sports Fan. Artist/Symphony supporter.
None of this should matter. We all need clean air. Good water. A stable, safe society.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.