Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 78636 times)

Norman Teigen

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Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« on: November 06, 2020, 11:17:55 AM »
The final results of the Election of 2020 may soon be known.  My suggestion is to put to bed the Forum topic on the 2020 Election and move on.  Remember...with malice toward none with charity to all.

There were some definite surprises.  What were some of these surprises?
Norman Teigen

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2020, 11:34:12 AM »
The final results of the Election of 2020 may soon be known.  My suggestion is to put to bed the Forum topic on the 2020 Election and move on.  Remember...with malice toward none with charity to all.

There were some definite surprises.  What were some of these surprises?
The biggest surprise to me was how transparently bad the media reporting on election night itself truly was. I don't think the polling industry or the pundit-class talking heads recover very easily from this. The running gag on conservative website is how much the media is simply the p.r. wing of the DNC, so I thought the pundits might go out of their way not to appear that way. But instead they owned up to and doubled-down on their bias.

D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2020, 11:34:44 AM »
The anticipated "Blue Wave" never materialized.  House remains in Democratic hands but by a slimmer margin.  Senate remains in Republican hands.  Overall, a tighter race than I thought and a realization that our country may be more evenly and deeply divided than realized.
Pastor Don Engebretson
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Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2020, 11:37:53 AM »
Tentatively, the vote counts are not all in and the litigation is not all resolved, what was surprising to me was how well Republicans did, especially considering Trump's loss. The down ballot races in general went well for Republicans, they gained seats in the House and likely did not lose their small margin in the Senate. No state legislatures flipped from Red to Blue. This was not "The Blue Wave" nor was it a wholesale repudiation of the Republican Party.


Also surprising, no matter who ends up winning, was the gains that Republicans made among minority voters. They still have a long way to go, but they got more minority votes this time around than they did in 2016.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2020, 11:43:28 AM »
You are dreaming or wishing on a star, Pastor Fienen. People much smarter than you and I are now saying that it's over. We can start looking ahead. But the thread on the election must continue for a while.

Retired ELCA Pastor: We are not a very inter-Lutheran forum. Posters with more than 1,500 posts: ELCA-6, with 3 of those inactive/rare and 1 moderator; LCMS-25, with 4 inactive/rare and 1 moderator. Non-Lutherans, 3; maybe 4 from other Lutheran bodies. 3 formerly frequent posters have gone quiet.

Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2020, 11:54:21 AM »
You are dreaming or wishing on a star, Pastor Fienen. People much smarter than you and I are now saying that it's over. We can start looking ahead. But the thread on the election must continue for a while.
I am neither dreaming nor wishing on a star. I do not expect that Trump will somehow eke out a win, but just as a criminal prosecution is not final until the verdict is tendered (and the appeal run out) no mater how certain the result seems, the election is not over until it is over.


In the 2016 election, how long did it take Ms Clinton and Democrats to admit defeat? Were they dreaming or wishing upon a star?
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Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2020, 11:56:00 AM »
See my comment elsewhere, Pastor Fienen. In 2016 we had an array of impeachable offenses, clear evidence of Russian involvement in the election and other matters requiring attention. We do not have those things this year.
Retired ELCA Pastor: We are not a very inter-Lutheran forum. Posters with more than 1,500 posts: ELCA-6, with 3 of those inactive/rare and 1 moderator; LCMS-25, with 4 inactive/rare and 1 moderator. Non-Lutherans, 3; maybe 4 from other Lutheran bodies. 3 formerly frequent posters have gone quiet.

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2020, 12:01:32 PM »
Surprises: the gains among minority demographics among the Republicans.  That is probably the biggest one for me. 

The poor media coverage was not a surprise as much as it was a revelation.  I knew that the media was the PR wing of the DNC but it is now clearer for more people. 

Polling is broken and I don't think it really needs to be fixed.  Polling and the media go hand in glove.  No one trusts the media for fairness.  The media use the polls.  Thus no one trusts the polls.  The pollsters write the questions for those blue zip codes then proceed to ask those questions to people living in red zip codes.  What benefit does it do anybody to answer a pollster?  What benefit does it do anybody to listen to the media say, "The polls say XYZ?"       

Another revelation that I think is coming clearer...The Democratic party is now the party of the rich and elite and powerful.  The "Bigs" are in the Democratic party- Big Tech, Big Media, Big Science, Big Commerce.  The Republican party is the party of the working class, of small business owners, of regular families...all those who go from day to day dealing with onerous taxes and regulations that provide nothing but the promise of further taxation and regulation. 

That's my list. 

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2020, 12:06:38 PM »
See my comment elsewhere, Pastor Fienen. In 2016 we had an array of impeachable offenses, clear evidence of Russian involvement in the election and other matters requiring attention. We do not have those things this year.
Actually, you had none of those things. Those were a stars you were wishing on.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2020, 12:09:03 PM »
Tentatively, the vote counts are not all in and the litigation is not all resolved, what was surprising to me was how well Republicans did, especially considering Trump's loss. The down ballot races in general went well for Republicans, they gained seats in the House and likely did not lose their small margin in the Senate. No state legislatures flipped from Red to Blue. This was not "The Blue Wave" nor was it a wholesale repudiation of the Republican Party.


Also surprising, no matter who ends up winning, was the gains that Republicans made among minority voters. They still have a long way to go, but they got more minority votes this time around than they did in 2016.


Which speaks against the Democrats rigging the elections.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2020, 12:13:28 PM »
The final results of the Election of 2020 may soon be known.  My suggestion is to put to bed the Forum topic on the 2020 Election and move on.  Remember...with malice toward none with charity to all.

There were some definite surprises.  What were some of these surprises?
The biggest surprise to me was how transparently bad the media reporting on election night itself truly was. I don't think the polling industry or the pundit-class talking heads recover very easily from this. The running gag on conservative website is how much the media is simply the p.r. wing of the DNC, so I thought the pundits might go out of their way not to appear that way. But instead they owned up to and doubled-down on their bias.


Unfortunately, presenting the truth often goes against Trump's lies, so it appears that they are against the president. I try to watch CBS news each morning. They interview as many Republican folks as they do Democratic ones. Especially, the Republicans who are responsible for voting in their states, they are not supporting Trump's latest charges. They still have not cast Arizona in the Biden camp, as some other news organizations have.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2020, 12:22:08 PM »
Polling is broken and I don't think it really needs to be fixed.  Polling and the media go hand in glove.  No one trusts the media for fairness.  The media use the polls.  Thus no one trusts the polls.  The pollsters write the questions for those blue zip codes then proceed to ask those questions to people living in red zip codes.  What benefit does it do anybody to answer a pollster?  What benefit does it do anybody to listen to the media say, "The polls say XYZ?"       


The polling predicting nearly everything that's happening. States that counted mail-in ballots first would have Biden ahead and Trump would close the gap as in-person ballots were counted. States that counted mail-in ballots last would be giving a larger percentage of votes to Biden. Populated areas, like Philadelphia, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Atlanta, where the volume of ballots makes getting returns slower, would favor Biden.


There is always a margin of error in polls. It's also true that the polls are not really statistically neutral; the poll results only include the population who are willing to answer the polls questions whether in person or on the phone. It is really a random sample (as I learned about that back in my college psychology courses). I don't know about others, but our phones (home and cells) indicate who is calling. Most unnamed numbers we don't recognize means we don't answer the phone. We're sure that many of them are pollsters. My wife did answer questions to one who came to the door.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Terry W Culler

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 12:44:59 PM »
The big news is that the leftist tilt of the Democrat Party did not reflect a sea change in the opinions of the average person, but of a very few urban radicals.  Trump received the highest percentage of minority voters than any Republican in the last 60 years and I'm waiting with bated breath to hear how the liberals explain that.  My former congressman, John Delaney, tried running for the Dem. nomination as a voice of reason, as did Gov. Bullock of Montana. Delaney pointed to the Dem pledge to "pack the Supreme Court" as something that cost a number of votes--seems ordinary Americans think it's a bad idea.  Babbling about Socialism cost them even more votes. The Dems were not in the mood for reason and now some of them are looking for new jobs.  The Republicans retain control of many of the states and that will affect elections for the next 10 years as redistricting takes off.  Americans have proven once again that we are a center-right nation.  Donald Trump didn't lose because of his policies, he lost because people are fed up with his childish behavior.  There's a good chance that the last 2 years of the Biden (or Harris) administration will face a Congress controlled by the GOP.
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Voelker

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2020, 01:03:13 PM »
It's clear from this year's election that a few things really need to be changed when it comes to Election Day. A few suggestions below, suggestions which are fair for all candidates, and might help boost third parties:
  • Once counting begins, counting continues. In fact, all ballots to be counted in any counting location should be present before the counting begins; the doors are locked, and no one in or out after.
  • Every county in a state should turn in results within a one-hour window per state. This will prevent "finding votes" when felt necessary.
  • Election Day should be a national holiday, to cut off grumbling about access to the polls. Keep them open sunup to sundown, then let the counting begin. It should be very, very clear by sunrise the next day who has won what, with some exceptional cases always cropping up.
  • Absentee and early voting should be rare and for very good reason (military service, and perhaps a couple other exceptions), with a clear chain of custody for each ballot.
  • Everyone who wants to vote in a given year should have to re-register two to four months ahead of time for each election (give plenty of time for this), with a special, photo-included voting ID issued for each election year. This would eliminate arguments concerning how many voters are available in a given area.
These would at once eliminate the vast majority of griping about results and prevent most of the easier avenues for cheating. These changes are all possible, and would streamline what is a truly messy system.

aletheist

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2020, 01:20:03 PM »
It's clear from this year's election that a few things really need to be changed when it comes to Election Day.
It seems to me that if all states would simply adopt whatever systems and procedures Florida now has in place, things would go much more quickly and smoothly nationwide. They learned their lesson in 2000 and had no issues counting all the votes within a few hours after the polls closed, despite having more cast than any state except California and Texas.
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