Author Topic: Now that the 2020 Election is over....  (Read 67347 times)

David Garner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #360 on: November 12, 2020, 09:37:53 AM »
Although I see abolishing the Electoral College as a huge long shot, it also sends a signal from the left that they would prefer a country of really only one view, one party position.

Assuming Moore thinks Biden should abolish the electoral college, it reveals a stunning ignorance of our Constitutional framework.

Abolishing the electoral college requires an amendment to the Constitution.  Under our system of government, the president has no role whatsoever to play in amending the Constitution.  He can cheerlead it, but he cannot offer a bill to enact it, nor vote on it, nor even veto it.  He is impotent to change the Constitution.  He is, at best, empowered to argue in favor of changing it.

Leaving aside the current impossibility of obtaining either 2/3 of both houses of Congress or 3/4 of state legislatures, Moore is appealing to the wrong leader here.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Charles Austin

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #361 on: November 12, 2020, 09:41:10 AM »
There may have been a statement issued from the White House, but I believe the president did not actually speak yesterday.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #362 on: November 12, 2020, 09:45:31 AM »
How long, Randy Bosch and others, will Mrs. Clinton be The scary thing you pull from behind your back to shake in the face of children to frighten them?
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Article coming up in Lutheran Forum journal. Now would be a good time to subscribe.
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peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #363 on: November 12, 2020, 09:46:39 AM »
https://vashiva.com/dr-shiva-live-mit-phd-analysis-of-michigan-votes-reveals-unfortunate-truth-of-u-s-voting-systems/

This is the sort of conspiracy theory floating around out there. The thing to do is to answer it. And by answer it, I don't mean assure everyone that safeguards are in place to prevent cheating, or claim that this kooky MIT statistician is not to be taken seriously. That is avoiding it, which only lets the idea that the election is stolen fester.

Is his data wrong? Are his systemic assumptions flawed? Is there a perfectly reasonable explanation for what on the surface appears to be obvious chicanery? If so, let's hear it. Take up the argument. But the more the media simply shushes everyone, as they did with the Hunter Biden scandal, the more they simply lose credibility.

In this case, the argument is simple. The data in three Michigan counties (but not all counties) shows an unnaturally uniform correlation between the percentage of people in any given precinct who voted straight Republican and the degree to which Trump underperformed the straight Republican ticket. That is, Trump overperforms the GOP ticket at uniform rates in highly Dem precincts, but underperforms the GOP in Republican precincts. That is to be expected given the dynamics of the race. What is not to be expected and is not explicable (apart from algorithmic bias in the tabulation) is the uniform rate of underperformance in a straight diagonal line in all three counties. Barring the explanation that the votes were counted with a weighted bias factored in, what is the explanation?

I don't think most people will take Dr. Shiva seriously. He is a classic internet guru sleuth type. But if you want people taking for granted that elections were free and fair and not shady or dubious, then I think his recommendations are sound. For example, the way it is done in Michigan, the voting machine takes a picture of the ballot. It is that picture that is counted. But the pictures are not saved. An easy way to disprove algorithmic chicanery, which would be to do a recount manually, is not possible. It should be. There should be one to one correlation between physical, re-countable ballots and registered voters who voted. Where there isn't, why not?   

Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #364 on: November 12, 2020, 09:48:36 AM »
I am not discounting the possibility for bold, liberal projects being launched in those early years of the Biden administration, especially, as I noted in my previous post, the Equality Act. I am concerned.

Elizabeth Warren as possible Treasury Secretary. Bernie possibly in the cabinet.

Ya think?!!
Don Kirchner

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John_Hannah

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #365 on: November 12, 2020, 09:50:25 AM »
The far left is hoping that Biden will not govern in a centrist position (as Obama did in many ways trying to please both sides), but will move left, far left.  In an open letter to Biden, Michael Moore called for him to work toward abolishing the Electoral College, among other liberal causes.  And he is by no means alone.  He also urged Biden to pay attention to young Democrats under 35 years of age. A headline in the Washington Times from September had read: "Ocasio-Cortez says Biden can be pushed 'in a more progressive direction' once he's elected."

I know that the call for unity sounds politically proper, but I'm quite concerned that the force from the far left will have more influence than some want to admit.  Of course, as they say, 'time will tell.'

Although I see abolishing the Electoral College as a huge long shot, it also sends a signal from the left that they would prefer a country of really only one view, one party position. 



https://meaww.com/michael-moore-praised-social-media-demanding-biden-embrace-the-far-left-abolish-electoral-college

I think that the "Squad" (AOC and others) like to forget one important fact. They do not have the votes in Congress to achieve their goals. The same may be said for far right conservatives. America is constructed to withstand serious disruptions to the course of history.

Peace, JOHN

The majority in the House may be, as is observed, 'razor thin,' but the Senate is still up for grabs in some ways. Even if the Senate ends up evenly split, the vice president breaks the tie.  The ACA was created with a Democratic majority across those seats of power in the early early of the Obama administration.  I am not discounting the possibility for bold, liberal projects being launched in those early years of the Biden administration, especially, as I noted in my previous post, the Equality Act. I am concerned.

True. The House has a majority of Democrats. The Senate might in a couple of months (probably not). Nonetheless that does not mean that the so called progressives will get the votes they need for their agenda. They won't. Not every Democrat is with Sanders, AOC, et. al. by any means.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #366 on: November 12, 2020, 09:56:56 AM »
Two decades ago I was praying the Great Ektania during Vespers and at the beginning of the Sunday Liturgy in Advent for "William our President and for our unknown President-elect."
Your prayers in 2000 demonstrated not only a Godly neutrality in the secular political process ... but fully acknowledging the Biblical admonition in 1 Timothy 2
Quote from: 1 Timothy 2
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;


Notably lacking elsewhere among some forum members are the Biblically mandated prayers for President Trump and Vice President Pence, especially concerning when spreading deliberately false information concerning the presidents Veterans Day Observance. Such prevarications are hardly “good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior.”


President Trump’s Veterans Day observance was reverent and respectful. Judgmental criticism of what was or wasn’t said or done is simple partisan wrangling and simply ignores 1 Timothy 2 above.

How long, Randy Bosch and others, will Mrs. Clinton be The scary thing you pull from behind your back to shake in the face of children to frighten them?
Probably as long as some continue to spew Orange Man Bad hateful screeds.🤭

Randy Bosch

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #367 on: November 12, 2020, 10:04:41 AM »
How long, Randy Bosch and others, will Mrs. Clinton be The scary thing you pull from behind your back to shake in the face of children to frighten them?

Well, she keeps resurfacing on the News of her own accord and with their support.  She isn't a scary thing to me, she was your choice four years ago and that very fact caused the 2016 election to go for Donald Trump.  Deal with it.

Since change is brewing,
How long, Charles Austin and others, will Mr. Trump
Quote
be The scary thing you pull from behind your back to shake in the face of children to frighten them?

Dan Fienen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #368 on: November 12, 2020, 10:07:13 AM »

I comment:
Can everyone in this modest forum now do our country the courtesy of referring to Biden as “President-Elect”?
Charles, you have spent the last four years denigrating, despising, and delegitimizing our duly elected president. Often you could not even bring yourself to call him by name but rather referring to him as the White House occupant as though he were a squatter there with no legitimate claim to the place or the office. You have regularly disparaged those who did not immediately join in your denigration of the president casting aspersions on their intelligence, awareness of current events, and moral character. You might understand then, if you could bring yourself to even consider much less understand any viewpoint other than your own, if I do not accept lesson in courtesy from you who rarely show courtesy to anyone not of your camp.


Yes, it is apparent that Joe Biden has won the election and that while there were some irregularities in the voting, those were not significant enough to affect the outcome. Much as the Russian interference in 2016 was present but not adequate to affect that outcome. Still if it was worth it to spend several years investigating allegations that Trump colluded with the Russians on the basis of flimsy, contrived evidence, surely it is worth it to investigate allegations of voting irregularities and lay them to rest.


At present, no election results have been certified. The last I looked, the Associated Press, much less CBS News or CNN, is not the legally designated agency for certifying election results. They have a good record for diligently and fairly reporting election results and are most likely correct in their election assessments. But that is not the same as officially certified results. So I will call Biden the presumptive President Elect until those results are certified. Meanwhile the current occupant of the White House is and remains the legitimate President of the United States and will remain so until he officially leaves office. Your approval is not necessary for his legitimacy.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 10:09:48 AM by Dan Fienen »
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D. Engebretson

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #369 on: November 12, 2020, 10:23:29 AM »
Although I see abolishing the Electoral College as a huge long shot, it also sends a signal from the left that they would prefer a country of really only one view, one party position.

Assuming Moore thinks Biden should abolish the electoral college, it reveals a stunning ignorance of our Constitutional framework.

Abolishing the electoral college requires an amendment to the Constitution.  Under our system of government, the president has no role whatsoever to play in amending the Constitution.  He can cheerlead it, but he cannot offer a bill to enact it, nor vote on it, nor even veto it.  He is impotent to change the Constitution.  He is, at best, empowered to argue in favor of changing it.

Leaving aside the current impossibility of obtaining either 2/3 of both houses of Congress or 3/4 of state legislatures, Moore is appealing to the wrong leader here.

Thank you for clarifying that.  Not that I was greatly afraid of the imminent possibility, but I see the far left attempting to push hard for the radical agenda of the far left, and that far-fetched vision of Moore seems to be a signal that they think nothing is 'off the table.'  And considering the more conservative majorities in many of the state houses, you are correct that this is a virtual "impossibility" under the current structure.  I should just take a deep breath and trust that the system has a lot more 'checks and balances' than I am seeing in my post-election eyes.
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #370 on: November 12, 2020, 10:26:54 AM »

I comment:
Can everyone in this modest forum now do our country the courtesy of referring to Biden as “President-Elect”?
So I will call Biden the presumptive President Elect until those results are certified. Meanwhile the current occupant of the White House is and remains the legitimate President of the United States and will remain so until he officially leaves office.

I think that this is both a respectful and technically proper way to address Biden at this stage.  I know that when he speaks the backdrop reads "Office of the President-Elect," but it is true that he is not that until the Electoral College formally votes.  Many of us admit he is the presumptive new leader and are not arguing that the upcoming legal battles are likely to change that prospect. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Norman Teigen

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #371 on: November 12, 2020, 10:30:29 AM »
President Trump is attempting to raise money even after he has been defeated at the ballot box.  Dana Milbank of The Washington Post fills us in on the scam.

"Sixty percent of the contribution, up to $5,000, goes to “Save America,” Trump’s newly created leadership PAC. And 40 percent of the contribution up to $35,500, goes to the Republican National Committee’s operating account, its political (not legal) fund.

Only after reaching the first maximum would a single penny go to Trump’s “Recount Account,” and only after reaching the second maximum would a penny go to the RNC’s legal account.

“It’s a straight-up bait and switch,” Paul S. Ryan, the vice president of policy and litigation at Common Cause, tells me. Such email solicitations target small donors, so for the “overwhelming majority of people contributing … none of their money will end up in recount accounts” or be used for otherwise challenging the election.

Rather, it will be used to extend Trump’s influence over the RNC during the Biden presidency and to build up his leadership PAC, which amounts to a “slush fund” for Trump’s personal use. “There is no limit to how much Donald Trump can pay himself or any member of his family under ‘Save America,’” Ryan notes."

Wake up and smell the coffee.
Norman Teigen

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #372 on: November 12, 2020, 10:35:22 AM »

I comment:
Can everyone in this modest forum now do our country the courtesy of referring to Biden as “President-Elect”?
So I will call Biden the presumptive President Elect until those results are certified. Meanwhile the current occupant of the White House is and remains the legitimate President of the United States and will remain so until he officially leaves office.

I think that this is both a respectful and technically proper way to address Biden at this stage.  I know that when he speaks the backdrop reads "Office of the President-Elect," but it is true that he is not that until the Electoral College formally votes.  Many of us admit he is the presumptive new leader and are not arguing that the upcoming legal battles are likely to change that prospect.

I'll happily (well, maybe not always happily, but dutifully, consistently, and in good faith) refer to whomever is elected president by the designated electors as president-elect. That happens in mid-December. Presumably it will be Joe Biden. If by some happenstance it turns out to be Donald Trump, I'll expect the same from those who suspect there must have been some chicanery behind that unexpected, unlikely, and dubiously explained circumstance.

Julio

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #373 on: November 12, 2020, 10:36:41 AM »
Charles, you have spent the last four years denigrating, despising, and delegitimizing our duly elected president. Often you could not even bring yourself to call him by name but rather referring to him as the White House occupant as though he were a squatter there with no legitimate claim to the place or the office. You have regularly disparaged those who did not immediately join in your denigration of the president casting aspersions on their intelligence, awareness of current events, and moral character. You might understand then, if you could bring yourself to even consider much less understand any viewpoint other than your own, if I do not accept lesson in courtesy from you who rarely show courtesy to anyone not of your camp.

At present, no election results have been certified. The last I looked, the Associated Press, much less CBS News or CNN, is not the legally designated agency for certifying election results. They have a good record for diligently and fairly reporting election results and are most likely correct in their election assessments. But that is not the same as officially certified results. So I will call Biden the presumptive President Elect until those results are certified. Meanwhile the current occupant of the White House is and remains the legitimate President of the United States and will remain so until he officially leaves office. Your approval is not necessary for his legitimacy.

Thanks to Rev Fienen for correctly analyzing the hateful posts of some ... since CNN and CBS were mentioned by you, it may be helpful to note that Fox is creating news rather than reporting it ... a fact overlooked by some ...
Your right-wing media or Fox (which is, sad to say, mainstream), doesn't even pretend to present facts. It publishes outright lies and knows that it is publishing lies to advance a political agenda.

Yes ... right winged Fox has declared Biden President elect ... routinely “fact checks” the President and his press secretary and oh yes refers to Biden as president elect.

Really right wing stuff.🧐

peter_speckhard

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Re: Now that the 2020 Election is over....
« Reply #374 on: November 12, 2020, 10:37:34 AM »
President Trump is attempting to raise money even after he has been defeated at the ballot box.  Dana Milbank of The Washington Post fills us in on the scam.

"Sixty percent of the contribution, up to $5,000, goes to “Save America,” Trump’s newly created leadership PAC. And 40 percent of the contribution up to $35,500, goes to the Republican National Committee’s operating account, its political (not legal) fund.

Only after reaching the first maximum would a single penny go to Trump’s “Recount Account,” and only after reaching the second maximum would a penny go to the RNC’s legal account.

“It’s a straight-up bait and switch,” Paul S. Ryan, the vice president of policy and litigation at Common Cause, tells me. Such email solicitations target small donors, so for the “overwhelming majority of people contributing … none of their money will end up in recount accounts” or be used for otherwise challenging the election.

Rather, it will be used to extend Trump’s influence over the RNC during the Biden presidency and to build up his leadership PAC, which amounts to a “slush fund” for Trump’s personal use. “There is no limit to how much Donald Trump can pay himself or any member of his family under ‘Save America,’” Ryan notes."

Wake up and smell the coffee.
If only you were so vigilant about the grifting of the Lincoln Project or the Clinton Foundation. If only you would wake up and smell the coffee concerning ALL children/relatives of politicians who somehow, amazingly, become millionaires without having any discernible skills.