Author Topic: Lutheran Forum  (Read 2159 times)

mariemeyer

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4216
    • View Profile
Lutheran Forum
« on: October 23, 2020, 10:00:43 AM »
The Summer 2020 Lutheran Forum arrived in Bethel, CT yesterday.     From The Forum Notebook.....

“Events this summer have brought fresh attention to the injustices experienced by the Black community in America, and to the systemic, dehumanizing evils of racism and white supremacy. Across the globe, protesters, fed up with the status quo, have taken to the streets to demand change. And change must come; the future of our nation depends upon it.

"Beginning with this issue editorials, we hope to publish articles addressing pastoral and theological aspects of America’s struggle for racial equality. Stay tuned!”

Associate editor Matthew O. Staneck writes:  “Throughout the entire history of this country, Black Americans have found themselves on the receiving end of institutional fraud.”

Editor R. David Nelson quotes the late James Cone. “I was a theologian asking: what if anything is theology worth in the black struggle in America?"

Nelson continues “Cone’s question haunts the enterprise of theology again today as our nation, even the entire world this time, desperately seeks a better way forward following the death of yet another Black American at the hands of law enforcement officers. Does Christian theology have anything worthwhile to contribute to our public discourse during this season of reckoning over racism and white supremacy? Or has theology remained silent in the face of injustice, hiding behind the walls of its institutional ivory towers, that it has lost credibility with those fighting for dignity, freedom and equality.” 

Marie Meyer
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 11:22:58 AM by mariemeyer »

mariemeyer

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4216
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 12:41:03 PM »
For  anyone who may have question why I referred to two editorials in the recent Lutheran Forum...

Previously on the ALPB Forum,  I stated how racism in America has changed since the Jim Crow era of my youth and the sixties when my husband's 1963  first call was to start a black congregation in Columbia, SC.  At the time no Lutheran church in SC, LCMS, ALC or LCA permitted blacks to enter their church.

Without the support of the Lutheran Human Relations Association and the black and white LCMS pastors and laypersons who were members of the LHRA, our years in Columbia, 1963-1970, would have been difficult. The LHRA was a much needed support system. By connecting LCMS pastors and layperson who worked in different ministries throughout the synod, the LHRA contributed to the LCMS becoming aware of systemic racism within our church body.     

Today, Bill and I realize that our years in SC were a blessing and profound learning experience for us and our four children born in Columbia.  We learned about being Christians in relations to one another from the men and women Bill confirmed after The Lutheran Church of the Holy Spirit was formed and from our neighbors. We also learned not to be admitted to SC State Parks. The substitute teaching I did in black schools allowed  me to experience the difference in the black and white schools.  When our eldest daughter started first grade she was the only white in the school.  The first day she came home from school she asked, "What's  a white cracker?"

Since his seminary graduation to the present  Bill and I subscribed to the American Lutheran, forerunner of Lutheran Forum and the Forum Letter.  My recollection is that through the years the American Lutheran was sensitive to racial issues in the LCMS and our country.  The same perspective continued in the American Lutheran and the Forum Letter.  This was why not a few in the LCMS considered he ALPB "liberal."

My years in SC were a factor in my serving on the ALPB Board for more than a decade, three years as the Board secretary.  They also influenced recent references here to the Fortress book Stony the Road We Trod, the November Christianity Today editorial and articles on systemic racism in our country and among some Christians. 

On this Forum I also made references to the LCMS Commission on Theology and Church Relations report Racism. Here systemic  racism is identified as "sinful" and perpetuated by denial and self defensiveness.  Just as I previously urged persons who post here to read the CTCR report, I now encourage you to subscribe to Lutheran Forum and read the Summer 2020 edition. I am certain copies are available.

Marie Otten Meyer

mariemeyer

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4216
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2020, 11:50:24 AM »
Strange that there is silence on the ALPB Forum Online regarding the latest issue of the ALPB magazine Lutheran Forum.                                                                 

Interestingly, Lutheran Forum is the subject of discussion elsewhere.  The following is an example of how the ALPB publication is being received by fellow Lutherans.               

"The Summer 2020 issue of Lutheran Forum just arrived, and even before completing the second editorial article, I am eager to recommend both editorials.  The theme of the issue, "Pandemic &  Protest," connects with our conversation in this week.  Editor R. David Nelson leads off a development of the theme with a compelling article, "Theology and Protest--Reflections on the Theological Legacy of James H. Cone.  He gives a fully informative and balanced perspective on the seminal work of James Cone.   

"A descriptive paragraph:  'Cone sought to craft a vision for theology that might speak directly to the Black community in America, offering a theological account of Black experience during the centuries of struggle.  Likewise, Cone used his platform to speak directly to professional theologians and pastors, urging theme to recognize the fight for justice and against racism and white supremacy as a matter of national emergency.  As recent events this summer have shown, the fight for justice is ongoing, and meaningful change has yet to be established.  We need more theological voices like Cone's to cry forth in the public square'."

Urge all who post here to become subscribers to Lutheran Forum. Give yourself a Christmas gift.

Marie Meyer

Weedon

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 10997
    • View Profile
    • My Blog
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2020, 11:51:57 AM »
Marie,

They burned their bridges with many of us and have never offered a single apology or proof of what they allege. I’ll never be giving them a dime and don’t really care to read what such a magazine would publish.
William Weedon, Assistant Pastor
St. Paul Lutheran Church, Hamel IL
Catechist on LPR Podcast: The Word of the Lord Endures Forever
A Daily, Verse-by-Verse Bible Study with the Church, Past and Present
www.thewordendures.org

+Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum

Steven W Bohler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3524
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2020, 12:07:19 PM »
Marie,

They burned their bridges with many of us and have never offered a single apology or proof of what they allege. I’ll never be giving them a dime and don’t really care to read what such a magazine would publish.

Yes.

Richard Johnson

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 10257
  • Create in me a clean heart, O God.
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2020, 01:05:48 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

James

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Guard Personal Information! Doxxing trolls present
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2020, 01:23:34 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
For others the bridge was burned long before joining this humble forum ... it should come as no surprise that we are a theologically diverse group with deeply held beliefs.

For most, Christian stewardship discourages the support of fundamentally diverging ideologies.

Perhaps the facts Rev Johnson’s presented above prompted the suggestion that forum participants be LF/FL subscribers.🤫

There is no evidence that Rev Johnson or anyone @ ALPB has endorsed this thoughts.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 02:09:36 PM by James »
If necessary, there will be a peaceful transfer of power on Jan 20, 2021.

In the event election fraud is proven in the courts of our country, there will be an inauguration ceremony ... no transfer of power necessary.

mariemeyer

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4216
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2020, 01:38:28 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."

Obviously, I am clueless about who the "they" is who "burned their bridges."   Is this another conflict between Lutheran brothers in Christ?  Tell me it isn't so.

Marie Meyer

John_Hannah

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 5016
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2020, 01:46:56 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
For others the bridge was burned long before joining this humble forum ... it should come as no surprise that we are a theologically diverse group with deeply held beliefs.

For most, Christian stewardship discourages the support of fundamentally diverging ideologies.

Is there no prohibition against reading such diverging ideologies and engaging in conversation with them? I would think that such a demand would be consistent behavior.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

jebutler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2020, 01:55:48 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
For others the bridge was burned long before joining this humble forum ... it should come as no surprise that we are a theologically diverse group with deeply held beliefs.

For most, Christian stewardship discourages the support of fundamentally diverging ideologies.

Perhaps Rev Johnson’s statement above prompted the suggestion that forum participants be LF/FL subscribers.🤫

I subscribed to LF/FL for a number of years. I even gave a friend of mine a gift subscription. I found the articles thoughtful, well written, and engaging. I loved the articles in FL and looked forward to it each month.I was very pleased when Piotr Malsyz, a man I greatly respect, became associate editor.

I did not agree with everything written, but I never expected to. But I enjoyed what I read immensely.

Then came the article on mobbing. It was bad enough that they published it in print; worse yet they published it online. People who never heard of LF or the ALPB were discussing the allegations. An article listing the allegations was written in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Finally, the article falsely accused a participant on this Forum of being "the Main Nag." I will grant that this last accusation was withdrawn and an apology was given, but the accusation should never have been made in public without verification in the first place. LF/FL never published any evidence for any of the allegations. It was, in my mind, a terrible breach of the 8th commandment.

All we got for our concerns was "trust us. This is real."

In response, I chose not to renew my subscription.Until these allegation are either substantiated or retracted, I will not subscribe. Like Will, I believed that LF/FL had burned this bridge. The editors, and the ALPB Board, made a decision and they stuck to it. In consequence, I made a choice and will stick to mine as well.
These are things that we can discuss among learned and reasonable people, or even among ourselves. (Luther, SA III, paraphrased).

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 15976
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2020, 02:32:17 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
For others the bridge was burned long before joining this humble forum ... it should come as no surprise that we are a theologically diverse group with deeply held beliefs.

For most, Christian stewardship discourages the support of fundamentally diverging ideologies.
Is there no prohibition against reading such diverging ideologies and engaging in conversation with them? I would think that such a demand would be consistent behavior.

Peace, JOHN
There was absolutely no statement that there is a ‘prohibition against reading such diverging ideologies and engaging in conversation with them’!  There was absolutely no demand made ... simply an observation.  Why make that slanderous accusation?
He said he wouldn’t think such a demand would be consistent. Which is true. Get over your feather trigger on accusing people of slander.

Richard Johnson

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 10257
  • Create in me a clean heart, O God.
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2020, 02:33:56 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
For others the bridge was burned long before joining this humble forum ... it should come as no surprise that we are a theologically diverse group with deeply held beliefs.

For most, Christian stewardship discourages the support of fundamentally diverging ideologies.

Perhaps the facts Rev Johnson’s presented above prompted the suggestion that forum participants be LF/FL subscribers.🤫

There is no evidence that Rev Johnson or anyone @ ALPB has endorsed this thoughts.

Frankly, this possibility has been discussed for some time. Why should people who don't support the mission of the ALPB, both theologically and financially, have any expectation at all to be able to torpedo discussions here? There's enough diversity of every kind within the subscription group to make for robust disagreement and discussion.

So there's your evidence.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Mark Brown

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1137
  • Pastor, St. Mark Lutheran, West Henrietta, NY
    • View Profile
    • Saint Mark's Website
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2020, 03:01:25 PM »
Honestly, when I saw the full slate of WHITE MALE RACIST! articles, and especially the note from the editor that we 👏 must 👏 spend 👏 more 👏 time 👏 on 👏 this 👏 burning 👏 issue (if they don't come through the spaces are the ubiquitous hand clap emojis), I let out a whimper of despair.

The entire theological game of trying to push off a warmed over Liberation Theology which was always Marxism in Christian drag is tiring.  To try and jump from a Pauline "In Christ" to "Christ is found wherever you find oppressed bodies" to "if you were truly Christian you must support BLM, you only earn justification through being an ally of the oppressed" is reading the gospel upside down and backwards.  Which is no gospel at all.  It strips out the transcendent.  It removes the teaching the the real offense of sin is against God.  And it sets up unending wars over who is in persona Christi (the intersectional pokemon points pyramid).

What I appreciated Lutheran Forum for was that it managed to be theologically intelligent while avoiding both the traps of "we are so smart, see our Latin phrases, 3000 obscure footnotes, and topics that only 5 people care about" and "everybody who is important is talking about this intellectual in-group signal".   It looks like Lutheran Forum is saying "that ditch looks nice" and turning the wheel hard port.   

But other than that, great issue!


Steven W Bohler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3524
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2020, 03:21:05 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."

And, of course, that "mobbing" blunder really would encourage them to become subscribers.  We are not just talking about former subscribers, but potential subscribers as well, that had their bridges burned out from under them.

Steven W Bohler

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 3524
    • View Profile
Re: Lutheran Forum
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2020, 03:22:54 PM »
Marie, you'd perhaps be surprised to learn that a majority of posters here are not subscribers to LF/FL; many of them weren't readers long before "they burned their bridges."
For others the bridge was burned long before joining this humble forum ... it should come as no surprise that we are a theologically diverse group with deeply held beliefs.

For most, Christian stewardship discourages the support of fundamentally diverging ideologies.

Perhaps Rev Johnson’s statement above prompted the suggestion that forum participants be LF/FL subscribers.🤫

I subscribed to LF/FL for a number of years. I even gave a friend of mine a gift subscription. I found the articles thoughtful, well written, and engaging. I loved the articles in FL and looked forward to it each month.I was very pleased when Piotr Malsyz, a man I greatly respect, became associate editor.

I did not agree with everything written, but I never expected to. But I enjoyed what I read immensely.

Then came the article on mobbing. It was bad enough that they published it in print; worse yet they published it online. People who never heard of LF or the ALPB were discussing the allegations. An article listing the allegations was written in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Finally, the article falsely accused a participant on this Forum of being "the Main Nag." I will grant that this last accusation was withdrawn and an apology was given, but the accusation should never have been made in public without verification in the first place. LF/FL never published any evidence for any of the allegations. It was, in my mind, a terrible breach of the 8th commandment.

All we got for our concerns was "trust us. This is real."

In response, I chose not to renew my subscription.Until these allegation are either substantiated or retracted, I will not subscribe. Like Will, I believed that LF/FL had burned this bridge. The editors, and the ALPB Board, made a decision and they stuck to it. In consequence, I made a choice and will stick to mine as well.

Was there actually a withdrawal of, and apology for, the accusation made against gan ainm?