Author Topic: The Forum is a success!  (Read 8427 times)

GalRevRedux

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The Forum is a success!
« on: September 26, 2020, 09:24:33 AM »
Yes, I am being sarcastic. I no longer see posts from female participants with any regularity.

I have long felt that female voices are not much welcome here. Without naming names, there is one longtime poster who is constantly browbeaten into silence. Eileen of blessed memory has moved on to a more elite forum, but stood her ground well and persistently. There is one poster who is more acceptable for a variety of reasons, but does not post often.

My more liberal sisters pop in and leave rather quickly.

I stop by and lurk, posting on occasion.

It seems to me that my brother pastors might be concerned at managing to alienate one entire group of potential participants. But I think instead that this was always meant to be a boys’ club anyway, so we females had best stay away.

Had any of you even noticed the absence of female voices in this forum? Does it actually not matter, as I suspect?

Just curious on this chilly grey morning.

Donna
A pastor of the North American Lutheran Church.

Dan Fienen

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2020, 09:29:29 AM »
If I have been discourteous to female voices, I apologize and seek correction. I'd like to think that I pay more attention to what is posted than to who is posting and certainly than to their gender.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

D. Engebretson

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2020, 09:37:18 AM »
Actually, I had not specifically taken note of the absence of female posters, which is unfortunate for me. But I am sorry if they have been treated poorly.  This forum should be above that.

I have noticed a lower number of posters of late.  Perhaps it has always been this way, but much of the regular discussion takes place between only a few, maybe less than six on a consistent basis. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

peter_speckhard

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2020, 09:43:24 AM »
It might relate to whether there is a difference in how men and women discuss things. What, in your view, would make this forum more likely to attract female participants?

GalRevRedux

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2020, 10:02:54 AM »
It might relate to whether there is a difference in how men and women discuss things. What, in your view, would make this forum more likely to attract female participants?

My guess would be respect. And less condescension. I have not felt as much disrespected personally as I have felt put off by seeing fellow posters disrespected. But as I said, just a guess.

Thanks.

Donna
A pastor of the North American Lutheran Church.

James J Eivan

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2020, 10:14:59 AM »
Actually, I had not specifically taken note of the absence of female posters, which is unfortunate for me. But I am sorry if they have been treated poorly.  This forum should be above that.

I have noticed a lower number of posters of late.  Perhaps it has always been this way, but much of the regular discussion takes place between only a few, maybe less than six on a consistent basis. 
Much of the content these day is hyper political in content.  A perfect example is the current SCOTUS issue. The fact is that almost all who commented this topic in 2016 have reversed their position today ... including former Justice Ginsberg herself.

Elsewhere in the secular political arena, the failures of one person/party are met with a rebuttal litany against the opposing candidate/party.

Furthermore some forum participants rely on personal feeling ... and public opinion, while others rely on historical precedent and the good and gracious will of God as justification of opinions/actions.

As one who reads legacy threads, it is rather apparent that few if any opinions have been swayed over the 15+ years of forum thread history by forum discussion.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 10:16:47 AM by James »

peter_speckhard

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2020, 10:17:21 AM »
It might relate to whether there is a difference in how men and women discuss things. What, in your view, would make this forum more likely to attract female participants?

My guess would be respect. And less condescension. I have not felt as much disrespected personally as I have felt put off by seeing fellow posters disrespected. But as I said, just a guess.

Thanks.

Donna
There does tend to be a lot of disrespect, no question. I see it as function of two things. The impersonal nature of online discussion makes it more like social media; people say things and in a way that they probably wouldn't in in-person discussion. But that relates to the second thing, which is that people interact here who wouldn't interact anywhere else, or, if they did, they wouldn't engage in serious discussion except privately.

I don't know if either of those things relate to male/female, but they certainly relate to the idea of respect. For example, I have never met Brian Stoffregen personally. I'm sure he is a nice guy, and if we spent an evening together it would probably be an enjoyable time for both of us. But I have very little respect for his opinion in this forum (not regarding him, but his opinions) which comes out in the way I and many others respond to him if we respond at all.

Charles Austin

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2020, 10:17:36 AM »
I have long worried about the way female posters here have been treated.
I mentioned it to the moderators sometime ago, maybe a year or more, but got no response. I suggested that language towards and about women might be one of the things they watch and perhaps point out to certain posters.
In addition, the forum has been taken over by anonymous posters and hardline ideologues whose main mission seems to be to beat down any liberal or progressive poster and attack the ELCA. I know three People who have either withdrawn completely, or stepped back from making any comment at all, sometimes just to take a break from what they encounter here, sometimes because they are completely disgusted with the attitudes and shots that come from anonymous posters.
Retired ELCA Pastor: We are not a very inter-Lutheran forum. Posters with more than 1,500 posts: ELCA-6, with 3 of those inactive/rare and 1 moderator; LCMS-25, with 4 inactive/rare and 1 moderator. Non-Lutherans, 3; maybe 4 from other Lutheran bodies. 3 formerly frequent posters have gone quiet.

John_Hannah

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2020, 10:18:08 AM »
Yes, I am being sarcastic. I no longer see posts from female participants with any regularity.

I have long felt that female voices are not much welcome here. Without naming names, there is one longtime poster who is constantly browbeaten into silence. Eileen of blessed memory has moved on to a more elite forum, but stood her ground well and persistently. There is one poster who is more acceptable for a variety of reasons, but does not post often.

My more liberal sisters pop in and leave rather quickly.

I stop by and lurk, posting on occasion.

It seems to me that my brother pastors might be concerned at managing to alienate one entire group of potential participants. But I think instead that this was always meant to be a boys’ club anyway, so we females had best stay away.

Had any of you even noticed the absence of female voices in this forum? Does it actually not matter, as I suspect?

Just curious on this chilly grey morning.

Donna

Yes, I see clearly that female voices are not welcomed. I must add though that other types are likewise scorned. Best to be right of center politically and fundamentalist theologically. Otherwise you face prima facie rejection. It is not a forum of balance and mature discussion.

I wish you and your friends would stay.

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

James J Eivan

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2020, 10:25:32 AM »
I have long worried about the way female posters here have been treated.
It’s one thing to worry about some thing… It’s another thing to provide concrete examples that back up your worry.

Please cite specific posts that support your worry the female posters have been treated any different than their male counterparts.

As one who is always concerned about equality for all, are you really asking for special and different treatment for the female participants?

GalRevRedux

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2020, 10:26:56 AM »
Yes, I am being sarcastic. I no longer see posts from female participants with any regularity.

I have long felt that female voices are not much welcome here. Without naming names, there is one longtime poster who is constantly browbeaten into silence. Eileen of blessed memory has moved on to a more elite forum, but stood her ground well and persistently. There is one poster who is more acceptable for a variety of reasons, but does not post often.

My more liberal sisters pop in and leave rather quickly.

I stop by and lurk, posting on occasion.

It seems to me that my brother pastors might be concerned at managing to alienate one entire group of potential participants. But I think instead that this was always meant to be a boys’ club anyway, so we females had best stay away.

Had any of you even noticed the absence of female voices in this forum? Does it actually not matter, as I suspect?

Just curious on this chilly grey morning.

Donna

Yes, I see clearly that female voices are not welcomed. I must add though that other types are likewise scorned. Best to be right of center politically and fundamentalist theologically. Otherwise you face prima facie rejection. It is not a forum of balance and mature discussion.

I wish you and your friends would stay.

Peace, JOHN

Thanks John. I am not leaving. Just was making an observation. No agenda, which I know is strange to many lol!
A pastor of the North American Lutheran Church.

D. Engebretson

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2020, 10:36:17 AM »
It might relate to whether there is a difference in how men and women discuss things. What, in your view, would make this forum more likely to attract female participants?

My guess would be respect. And less condescension. I have not felt as much disrespected personally as I have felt put off by seeing fellow posters disrespected. But as I said, just a guess.

Thanks.

Donna
There does tend to be a lot of disrespect, no question. I see it as function of two things. The impersonal nature of online discussion makes it more like social media; people say things and in a way that they probably wouldn't in in-person discussion. But that relates to the second thing, which is that people interact here who wouldn't interact anywhere else, or, if they did, they wouldn't engage in serious discussion except privately.

I don't know if either of those things relate to male/female, but they certainly relate to the idea of respect. For example, I have never met Brian Stoffregen personally. I'm sure he is a nice guy, and if we spent an evening together it would probably be an enjoyable time for both of us. But I have very little respect for his opinion in this forum (not regarding him, but his opinions) which comes out in the way I and many others respond to him if we respond at all.

As in any kind of interpersonal exchange it is often the tone of words that determines certain responses.  If a person has ever worked in situations where you had to decelerate the rate of anger in a room, you deliberately choose your words carefully and tend to lower your volume.  In a setting that lacks access to facial expressions and actual audible voice we are challenged to see our printed words as carrying the weight of our emotions and the emotional reactions of others, intended or not. One can challenge another person's opinions and views without causing an angry retort. It's all in how one chooses one's words and how they are delivered.   
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2020, 10:42:41 AM »
I still peruse regularly and choose to comment when I see a topic that interests me.  This forum is organic.  People come and go or post or lurk as they see fit.  I suspect there really isn't anyone purposely attempting to drive women away, and I can't imagine as a woman participant what could be done to draw and retain women, to be honest.  I'd be interested in hearing ideas of how to draw more female participants from those who have them.  I've always heard it said that it is more favorable to bring forth solutions rather than problems.

I suppose I'd be interested in commenting on threads these days that relate to adjusting to an empty nest, how to cook for 2 after over 20 years of cooking for 6, how the virtual and hybrid approaches to teaching in higher ed. can be improved upon, Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, diaconal and mercy work in the church, leading a non-profit in the midst of a pandemic, helping homeless families adjust to the added pressures caused by the pandemic (including best practices for helping homeless children navigate virtual-only school with limited or no access to appropriate tech. equipment and internet access), among other topics that impact my world right now.

People have different interests at different times.  People are crazy busy adjusting to the new normal caused by the pandemic.  Maybe people have grown weary of online bickering, especially over political matters.  Online discourse is horrendous as of late in just about any venue.  Maybe people are too busy engaging in ministry work to spend too much time on internet forums.  The reasons could be endless.

Through the years, I have witnessed equal opportunity offending on the part of some participants.  It isn't just women posters that are targeted and subsequently pushed away, in my opinion.

Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2020, 10:45:59 AM »
I have long worried about the way female posters here have been treated.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

This was rich.  God bless you, Pastor Austin.

peter_speckhard

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Re: The Forum is a success!
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2020, 10:53:06 AM »

Yes, I see clearly that female voices are not welcomed. I must add though that other types are likewise scorned. Best to be right of center politically and fundamentalist theologically. Otherwise you face prima facie rejection. It is not a forum of balance and mature discussion.

Irony. Calling conservative Lutherans fundamentalist is simply an immature put-down that doesn't raise the level of discourse. It is like referring to Democrats as "commie-libs." People do it for fun in like-minded crowds, but probably should not expect to engage any of them meaningfully when using the term.

Disagreement is not personal rejection. But if you counted up the number of posts in this forum that decry anyone who would support Trump, you see that prima facie rejection based on politics is not a one-way-street.