Author Topic: Youth Catechesis Question  (Read 4921 times)

Richard Johnson

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2020, 09:18:31 PM »
I was very happy to see, when I accepted my first (and only) call to what was then an ALC congregation, that the congregation's constitution specifically stated that the pastor should not participate in any ceremonies of--I forget the verbiage, but it clearly meant Masonic organizations. When we had to make amendments to bring us into conformity with the new ELCA model constitution, I made sure that the anti-Masonic paragraph remained untouched.
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Charles Austin

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2020, 09:29:44 PM »
On two occasions early in my ministry, the Masons wanted to bring their rites into the church at a funeral for a lodge member. I asked a colleague and followed his suggestion. The Masons were told their rites could follow after I finished the church service at the gravesite.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2020, 10:03:26 PM »
I was very happy to see, when I accepted my first (and only) call to what was then an ALC congregation, that the congregation's constitution specifically stated that the pastor should not participate in any ceremonies of--I forget the verbiage, but it clearly meant Masonic organizations. When we had to make amendments to bring us into conformity with the new ELCA model constitution, I made sure that the anti-Masonic paragraph remained untouched.

Given the context, that it's in the congregation's constitution, I"m not following. Why would any Masonic lodge even contemplate a pastor participating in a Masonic ceremony? Why would they even allow him into any ceremony if not a Mason?
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2020, 10:38:44 PM »
I was very happy to see, when I accepted my first (and only) call to what was then an ALC congregation, that the congregation's constitution specifically stated that the pastor should not participate in any ceremonies of--I forget the verbiage, but it clearly meant Masonic organizations. When we had to make amendments to bring us into conformity with the new ELCA model constitution, I made sure that the anti-Masonic paragraph remained untouched.

Given the context, that it's in the congregation's constitution, I"m not following. Why would any Masonic lodge even contemplate a pastor participating in a Masonic ceremony? Why would they even allow him into any ceremony if not a Mason?


In some denominations, the pastors can be members of the Masons and the Mason's funeral rites occur in the church. Not with Lutherans. Not all Masons may recognize the great differences among denominations.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 10:40:21 PM by Brian Stoffregen »
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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2020, 10:44:28 PM »
I was very happy to see, when I accepted my first (and only) call to what was then an ALC congregation, that the congregation's constitution specifically stated that the pastor should not participate in any ceremonies of--I forget the verbiage, but it clearly meant Masonic organizations. When we had to make amendments to bring us into conformity with the new ELCA model constitution, I made sure that the anti-Masonic paragraph remained untouched.


As I recall the ALC constitution, it did not prohibit members from Lodge membership, but it prohibited the pastor from participating in lodge rituals; and, I believe, the use of church facilities for Lodge rites.
"The church Ö had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Pr. Don Kirchner

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2020, 10:49:45 PM »
Oh, thanks for the explanation. Up where I was, there wouldn't be any Masonic rites in which a pastor would participate as a pastor, which is the context here. As for any Masonic funeral ritual, they would have been fine with something after the commitment.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 11:00:39 PM by Pr. Don Kirchner »
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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2020, 01:01:38 AM »
On two occasions early in my ministry, the Masons wanted to bring their rites into the church at a funeral for a lodge member. I asked a colleague and followed his suggestion. The Masons were told their rites could follow after I finished the church service at the gravesite.

I never had to face that issue.

But if I had, I would have insisted on the Christian words being the final words; a position that I always held with Veterans' ceremonies...and as the number of Veteran burials  countywide increased and the ranks of the Honor Guard decreased, they were relieved to be able to "go first".

Full disclosure:  My lineal Great-Grandfather was a 32nd Degree Mason.  I was invited to join the Lodge on several occasions but always declined.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 01:03:38 AM by J. Thomas Shelley »
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Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2020, 08:23:04 AM »
After numerous searches, I have not found YouTube catechism resources that I could adopt for working with youth. Everything seems aimed at adults. So I've started to build a channel for my second year catechism students. There are two lessons on the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, some memory work aids, and a basic video on how to find things in the Bible, catechism explanation, and our hymnal.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLF4FiQgfKr48eyLQt9QRwQ/

If anyone comes across such resources specifically designed for youth, please let me know.

I am also considering an adult Bible Study adaptation of the lessons that would add Bible readings and accompanying Q & A.
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Steven W Bohler

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2020, 08:44:10 AM »
Leave me alone, Charles. We are ordered not to interact hereon, so knock it off.

OK, so I will ask: knowing the LCMS position on lodges, am I correct in assuming that you had renounced your membership in the Masons before you joined an LCMS congregation?  Certainly the seminary would not have admitted you as an MDiv student unless you had already done so, right?

That is correct. I went through the York Rite and Knight Templar in my young adult years, beginning to practice law in a new, relatively small city of about 12,000. I got to know and respected some guys who were Masons and asked to join. No one ever approached me, and I never saw anyone being asked to join. That wasn't the way it worked. One of the district court judges was a Mason, but he never treated me differently from any other lawyers or showed me any favoritism in court or in his rulings. We were involved in community projects, I made some good friends, and I guess I enjoyed the dramatic aspects of meetings and degree work. But yes, there was a real focus on works righteousness. Looking back on it now, it is similar to and reminds me of the teachings of the Methodist Church.

At the time, I was a member of a large ELCA church in town. At one point, the female associate pastor ran off to California with the female church secretary by taking a call there. Some members were quite shocked and asked about it. The senior pastor told the members it was none of their business. We left shortly thereafter.

I had begun to miss my LCMS upbringing and also the fact that, when visiting my parents at our "home" church where I was confirmed, I would not commune. Young and taken with myself, winning every jury trial I had, I went up to the rail and communed. How could they deny me?! Pastor communed me. It was my wife, raised ALC, who was incensed with me, lecturing me that I knew full well that the LCMS practiced closed communion. It was she who brought me to repentance. I went back to my parents' pastor and apologized. He of course forgave me, and we began to engage in some theological discussion. He gave me some materials to read, and that was the beginning of my journey.

Thereafter, I demitted from the Lodge. I discussed my decision with a couple of Lodge members whom I greatly respected. No one tried to dissuade me. They didn't quite understand my reasons for leaving, but no one pressured me to remain. It doesn't work that way.

We joined Zion Lutheran, an LCMS congregation. I loved their pastor, and between him and my parents' pastor, with whom I kept in communication, I continued down the road to entering the pastoral ministry, closing my law practice and entering Sem St Louis.

I remember reading Walther's letter on The Lodge question which, given my background, interested me. It is included in this article on the history of The Lodge in the LCMS.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/ConstableLodgePracticeInMoSynod.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjC-trw7-7rAhVQI6wKHXITC1wQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3egad2trf-3lZXnkc__U9k

I suspect that my parents' pastor had read Walther's letter as well, given his pastoral care to me.  ;)

Someone wrote to me privately, stating:

ďI canít think of a greater amount of bull crap and nonsense than anything having to do with the Masonic Lodge, in any of its various idiotic manifestations.Ē

I can, within the church at large and even at times on this forum. So, save the outrage when you donít know what youíre talking about.

Thank you for making that clear.

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2020, 09:00:45 AM »
After numerous searches, I have not found YouTube catechism resources that I could adopt for working with youth. Everything seems aimed at adults. So I've started to build a channel for my second year catechism students. There are two lessons on the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, some memory work aids, and a basic video on how to find things in the Bible, catechism explanation, and our hymnal.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLF4FiQgfKr48eyLQt9QRwQ/

If anyone comes across such resources specifically designed for youth, please let me know.

I am also considering an adult Bible Study adaptation of the lessons that would add Bible readings and accompanying Q & A.


What do you think of this movement? We ended catechism and shifted to a whole household approach to discipleship. Our congregation provided videos for the Faith 5 training.

https://store.faithink.com/products/lets-kill-sunday-school-before-it-kills-the-church-volume-1-by-dr-rich-melheim-and-friends

Charles Austin

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2020, 09:05:38 AM »
It seems then that the Freemasonry issue is amicably settled, an issue wherein I am in agreement with the LCMS.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Interesting things on the new administration and religion in the 1/24 newspapers. Douthat column, e.g. Posted link here, but it was deleted.

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2020, 10:00:02 AM »
It seems then that the Freemasonry issue is amicably settled, an issue wherein I am in agreement with the LCMS.

Free Masonry is like the Moose and Elks clubs for anyone under 50: a non issue because no one cares about it.

 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 06:46:43 PM by Richard Johnson »

James J Eivan

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2020, 10:04:53 AM »
After numerous searches, I have not found YouTube catechism resources that I could adopt for working with youth. Everything seems aimed at adults. So I've started to build a channel for my second year catechism students. There are two lessons on the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, some memory work aids, and a basic video on how to find things in the Bible, catechism explanation, and our hymnal.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLF4FiQgfKr48eyLQt9QRwQ/

If anyone comes across such resources specifically designed for youth, please let me know.

I am also considering an adult Bible Study adaptation of the lessons that would add Bible readings and accompanying Q & A.
While they may not be professionally produced, shouldnít catechism training be a time to establish a relationship with a pastor/local congregation?  If so, then catechism videos if necessary should feature the local pastor teaching the class ... rather than hiring the job out to some professional video production studio.

Our pastor just began the fall pastorís class via zoom ... recorded if review is needed or a class is missed. In years past, I attended in person pastorís classes. In addition to catechetical review, it was a great opportunity to get to know the new members.

Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2020, 04:19:49 PM »
After numerous searches, I have not found YouTube catechism resources that I could adopt for working with youth. Everything seems aimed at adults. So I've started to build a channel for my second year catechism students. There are two lessons on the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, some memory work aids, and a basic video on how to find things in the Bible, catechism explanation, and our hymnal.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLF4FiQgfKr48eyLQt9QRwQ/

If anyone comes across such resources specifically designed for youth, please let me know.

I am also considering an adult Bible Study adaptation of the lessons that would add Bible readings and accompanying Q & A.


What do you think of this movement? We ended catechism and shifted to a whole household approach to discipleship. Our congregation provided videos for the Faith 5 training.

https://store.faithink.com/products/lets-kill-sunday-school-before-it-kills-the-church-volume-1-by-dr-rich-melheim-and-friends

Thanks for your question, Brian. Early in my days at Concordia Publishing House I was among those involved in a review of FaithInc.

The curriculum addresses some important needs in the church. Melheim's approach is intergenerational and that has had a significant impact on church practices in recent years.

At Emmanuel, parents or grandparents attend our youth catechism classes. We have a meal together and then I walk the kids and adults through their highs and lows (sharing my experiences, too) which is a Melheim practice. Then we go into the catechism lesson itself. The sharing time is very helpful for learning about the Law and Gospel needs in the people's lives.

What the curriculum reviewers found missing in FaithInc. was substantive content. But that can be supplemented by users at the home church. So, some very good process but missing content.

The trouble now is that Covid is keeping us apart from one another. So new methods are needed. I'm exploring distance learning not because I want to but because it looks like the best way to keep things going in spiritual care.
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Rev. Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: Youth Catechesis Question
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2020, 04:52:39 PM »
After numerous searches, I have not found YouTube catechism resources that I could adopt for working with youth. Everything seems aimed at adults. So I've started to build a channel for my second year catechism students. There are two lessons on the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, some memory work aids, and a basic video on how to find things in the Bible, catechism explanation, and our hymnal.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLF4FiQgfKr48eyLQt9QRwQ/

If anyone comes across such resources specifically designed for youth, please let me know.

I am also considering an adult Bible Study adaptation of the lessons that would add Bible readings and accompanying Q & A.
While they may not be professionally produced, shouldnít catechism training be a time to establish a relationship with a pastor/local congregation?  If so, then catechism videos if necessary should feature the local pastor teaching the class ... rather than hiring the job out to some professional video production studio.

Our pastor just began the fall pastorís class via zoom ... recorded if review is needed or a class is missed. In years past, I attended in person pastorís classes. In addition to catechetical review, it was a great opportunity to get to know the new members.

Thanks for your note, James. I'm not sure I fully understand the comment. The videos I'm sharing are not professionally produced as should be readily noticed. I agree that catechesis is a time for building bonds with pastor and congregation. Unfortunately, Covid is keeping people apart. That's why I'm exploring distance learning. Like your pastor, I will probably have a zoom call with students when we review the answers they give in their workbooks. That will also allow us time to share highs and lows and pray together. Putting some of the instruction in video format seemed like a good way to quickly communicate content. It also has the advantage of letting the learners explore the content at their pace.

I imagine this will all go away in a year and we can return to face to face discipleship and study.
I serve as administrator for www.churchhistoryreview.org.