Author Topic: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA  (Read 12440 times)

B Hughes

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2020, 05:59:08 PM »

LOL - near simultaneous conclusions. 

RevG

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2020, 08:49:09 PM »
This lawsuit's political impact will ultimately fire up much of the right even more than it is. As an article in Politico notes:
Even if the NRA is gone or tied down by litigation, about 43 percent of Americans will still live in gun-owning households. A fervent gun rights culture of hunters, collectors, open carriers, militia members and self-defense enthusiasts would still persist. Conservative media outlets would still cater to their fears. Other competing gun rights groups such as Gun Owners of America, National Association for Gun Rights and the Second Amendment Foundation would still channel the views of the gun rights grassroots to elected officials and new organizations could crop up to do the same.

Besides, the new lawsuit probably won’t kill off the NRA in six months’ time. And while it had already been suffering from internal strife, weak fundraising and staff layoffs, the easiest way for the NRA to rekindle its fundraising is to start 2021 with a Democratic president, Democratic Senate and Democratic gun control legislation.

And don’t be surprised if a Democratic presidential victory will spark a spike in gun sales, which is what happened in 2008 when Barack Obama won. Already this spring and summer, we’ve experienced the biggest gun sale surge in 10 years, in panicked reaction to the pandemic and the racial justice protests. Such frenzied buying is a reminder to politicians that the gun owner constituency remains present, intense and engaged.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/08/nra-gun-rights-voters-392604

Actually, the NY AG might have done Republicans a favor, politically speaking.  Nothing fires up their base like a move that signals an attack on what they consider their fundamental rights. If the lawsuit had simply concentrated on addressing issues of supposed corruption and malfeasance, that probably wouldn't have made as much of an impact.  But the AG signaled back in her election an intent to take down the NRA, and now her lawsuit follows through on her intent.  This is raw meat to the right.  Nothing like making sure we have an even more polarized election season than it probably already was going to be.

True. The political consequences will likely favor Republicans. She probably calculated that. Nonetheless, I (and I hope all honest gun owners) would hardly expect her to ignore serious wrong doing.

Peace, JOHN

I certainly understand her addressing "serious wrong doing."  And that is her job.  I just don't appreciate the politicizing of this event.  This is about dealing with possible corruption and malfeasance within an organization, not the evil of a domestic terrorist organization that needs to be eliminated.

I don't think she is "politicizing this event." Others are. We would be having quite a different discussion here if the non-profit under investigation had been Planned Parenthood or even the ELCA. Think about it.

The gun lobby will remain regardless of what happens to the NRA, which may be nothing. Innocent until. . . .  you know.   :)

Peace, JOHN


I seem to remember the AG announcing days in advance that she had a national big deal about to come to fruition--looks like politicizing to me.  If it was simply a law suit she could have done it in an ordinary way but the chance to have lights flashing in her face was just too much for her-besides someone has to be gov. after Cuomo

I agree with this analysis.  It’s hard not to read this as a cynical political move which panders to the present moment.  Then again, that’s how she campaigned for the job. Sort of reminds me of another (former) AG - Kamala Harris.  This is, in part, why I love The Wire. Season 3-5 tracks the rise of a politician’s rise to power within a corrupt and all too real political system.

Speaking of which Gov. Malley was the inspiration for the character I mentioned whose name escapes me at the moment.

Peace,
Scott+
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 11:32:38 PM by Rev Geminn »

B Hughes

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2020, 08:22:56 AM »

Gun control as a winning issue is so last year. See link. 

https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2020/08/annie-gets-her-gun-trump-gets-her-vote.html

RayToy

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2020, 10:19:40 PM »




Speaking of which Gov. Malley was the inspiration for the character I mentioned whose name escapes me at the moment.

Peace,
Scott+

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peter_speckhard

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2020, 10:08:10 AM »
Meanwhile, mobs looted downtown Chicago last night, with shots fired at and by police. Bus and train service was cut off, interstates exits were closed, the drawbridges over the river were all up. The mob apparently started at the Saks store on Michigan Avenue. My guess is that even hardcore, bluer than blue places like Cook County are going to see a surge in gun sales.

James S. Rustad

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2020, 10:18:22 AM »
If we’re interested in denouncing meaningless political grandstanding, I’ll wait to hear the condemnation of the unworkable, insufficient and probably illegal actions yesterday assumed by the man in the Oval Office.

Trump's executive orders accomplish little or nothing.  He doesn't have the authority to do much of what he claims these orders accomplish as it needs congressional action.  These are the actions of someone who is trying to appear to be doing something.

That good enough for you?

peter_speckhard

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2020, 10:32:37 AM »
If we’re interested in denouncing meaningless political grandstanding, I’ll wait to hear the condemnation of the unworkable, insufficient and probably illegal actions yesterday assumed by the man in the Oval Office.
Meaningless political grandstanding that has to do with the NRA and gun control pertains to the thread. Meaningless political grandstanding unrelated to that topic is out of place here, unless, of course, the real goal is simply condemnation of Trump no matter what the topic is.

Jim Butler

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2020, 10:36:34 AM »
If we’re interested in denouncing meaningless political grandstanding, I’ll wait to hear the condemnation of the unworkable, insufficient and probably illegal actions yesterday assumed by the man in the Oval Office.

Unworkable and insufficient are matters of opinion.

Before you declare them "probably illegal", you might want to check out https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7508A (see also https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-105publ34/pdf/PLAW-105publ34.pdf)

Based on this law, I'm not sure they are illegal. It looks like Congress has given the executive the authority to suspend taxes "by reason of Presidentially declared disaster." Passed in 1997; signed by WJ Clinton.

As a reporter, I assume you researched this law prior to saying his actions were "probably illegal". I am sure you wouldn't make any statements you had not properly researched.

Since I know you did your research, I would be very interested in you explaining how Trump broke the law.
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James J Eivan

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2020, 10:42:52 AM »
Meanwhile, mobs looted downtown Chicago last night, with shots fired at and by police. Bus and train service was cut off, interstates exits were closed, the drawbridges over the river were all up. The mob apparently started at the Saks store on Michigan Avenue. My guess is that even hardcore, bluer than blue places like Cook County are going to see a surge in gun sales.
Isn’t part of Cook County’s problem that gun sales are severely restricted ... doesn’t the mayor complain that better gun control elsewhere would magically solve the  wholesale slaughter of Cook County residents?   

Dave Benke

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2020, 10:43:52 AM »
Here's something from the Times, Left Coast version (LA Times) indicating what the end result might be in this situation:  https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-09/national-rifle-association-wayne-lapierre-letitia-james-new-york-attorney-general

Dave Benke

B Hughes

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2020, 10:48:49 AM »
Meanwhile, mobs looted downtown Chicago last night, with shots fired at and by police. Bus and train service was cut off, interstates exits were closed, the drawbridges over the river were all up. The mob apparently started at the Saks store on Michigan Avenue. My guess is that even hardcore, bluer than blue places like Cook County are going to see a surge in gun sales.

Illinois is now a "shall issue" concealed carry permit state as a result of having lost a lawsuit that challenged their prior "may issue" status.  The legislature overrode their governor as a result of that court ruling.  See below. 
 
You are correct.  As people realize they are on their own when it comes to this sort of behavior (Chicago police were overwhelmed by the crowds), more will come to the conclusion they must arm themselves. Sounds like the Chicago mayor as done a 180 on supporting her police department.  We'll see if the local officers are inclined to believe her.

  Baltimore has yet to recover from the local AG and mayor going after the four officers with the Freddie Gray incident. With NYC's AG going after the NRA and violent crime at all time highs in that city, it will be interesting to watch as NYC may never return to what "was."
 

https://reason.com/2013/07/09/illinois-becomes-the-last-state-to-legal/ 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 10:52:34 AM by B Hughes »

Dan Fienen

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2020, 11:55:23 AM »
As far as I can tell from all that I have read, the case for fiduciary malfeasance on the part of the executives seems very solid. The part of the case that seems shaky is that the proper remedy is to dissolve the organization. I happened to hear a snippet of a conversation on NPR news this morning. Their legal expert also said that the case for misuse of funds was solid. However, what he found much weaker was the case for disbanding the NRA.
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B Hughes

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2020, 12:09:31 PM »
It seems unlikely the NRA will be dissolved. The LA Times article speaks of “cutting off its head.”
But you gun lovers have nothing to fear; there are plenty of you out there, and you will make your views known about gun ownership, and you will most likely prevail even if the head of your organization goes to the slammer.

The thing is, the second amendment is not dependent on the moral character of any set of leaders. Same with all the rest of amendments, though the Left continually seeks to negate them. Thank God for patriots.

Dan Fienen

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2020, 12:10:52 PM »
I am not a member of the NRA. As I mentioned before, the last gun I bought plugged into my Nintendo game console, the one before that shot suction cup tipped darts. In addition to the lobbying for gun rights, the NRA is involved with many other activities including hunter safety classes, gun safety classes, shooting clubs, and the like. Those activities are designed, in part, to help prevent gun related deaths and injuries. Sneering reference to gun lovers and their activities does not add to discussions. Even though you may not enjoy gun sports, or feel the need for gun ownership as protection (or "protection" as you like to include scare quotes to show your disdain for those who feel threatened, except of course Blacks who fear the police, they have a righteous fear) and Beloved Spouse would like laws that would make it most difficult to own or use guns even for sport, doesn't mean that those who do are somehow less intelligent or less virtuous than you.


Yes, Yes, some of your best friends are gun owners. Now where have I heard that kind of excuse for disrespect before?
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David Garner

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Re: NY Atty General Looks To Dissolve NRA
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2020, 01:22:58 PM »
As far as I can tell from all that I have read, the case for fiduciary malfeasance on the part of the executives seems very solid. The part of the case that seems shaky is that the proper remedy is to dissolve the organization. I happened to hear a snippet of a conversation on NPR news this morning. Their legal expert also said that the case for misuse of funds was solid. However, what he found much weaker was the case for disbanding the NRA.

Here's the issue -- nobody knows if the case is "very solid" because they've only read the complaint.  You can allege anything you want in a complaint.  Proving it is a different matter.

So whoever is out there telling people this case is solid is not being honest, because they have absolutely no way of knowing that.  At best, they can say the plaintiff has stated a cause of action (in other words, that the case won't be dismissed on the pleadings).  But that's about all that can be said.  Allegations in a complaint are only solid if the party alleging them can prove them in court. That is a far tougher nut to crack than simply typing them on a sheet of paper and filing them with the court.
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