Author Topic: Protecting Our Children  (Read 6321 times)

B Hughes

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2020, 08:47:07 AM »
  What began as a homeless ministry in Baltimore, RoadChurch quickly evolved to an outreach along The Block; literally a block of strip clubs just up the street from the Inner Harbor. We partnered with another ministry called Awaken Aurora. That is a group of older women who have an outreach to the dancers. We guys stay outside the clubs and reach the doorman, pimps, and gang members. One of my team is a former special forces interrogator who is gifted at this mission. In his words, "I know how to go into hostile environments and put people at ease so they'll talk to me, now I do it for Jesus."   The worship service we launched in a strip club on Sunday morning was a result of those combined efforts. What does this have to do with this thread?

  Many of the dancers live in abandoned row houses in Baltimore. As you can imagine they have stories that led to being essentially homeless. They are close to moving from being inside on a stage to standing on the corner: both demonstrate they have run out of anything else to sell.  Exploitation requires victims and those who are willing to pay to view.

The Deaconess has helped us keep our focus on the rest of the story as has Charles. I encourage us to do the same because everyone involved in the business of The Block started out as an innocent child.

Charles Austin

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2020, 09:38:32 AM »
NC Lutheram2 writes:
 I think a discussion on how to identify predatory behaviors in individuals who may be in our midst would be worthwhile.
I comment:
Yes, but not with information from an anonymous source whose credentials or experience we cannot evaluate.
And who has admitted that his/her “method” is unreliable.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2020, 10:13:57 AM »
I think a discussion on how to identify predatory behaviors in individuals who may be in our midst would be worthwhile. What are the common signs or "tells" that should make pastors and parents wary, or that we should be teaching kids - and vulnerable adults, too - to watch out for and avoid? And what should a proper response be when those are noticed?

Some resources on this topic:

Hiding in Plain Sight: How to Spot a Child Predator

Suffer the Children:  Developing Effective Church Policies on Child Maltreatment

Important Steps to Help Prevent Child Sexual Abuse

Often times, perpetrators of child sexual abuse target churches because we are generally considered "unsuspecting" and willing to easily forgive in the event that discovery of an offense is made.  The more churches and schools make it clear that they have policies and procedures in place to guard against such behavior, the safer they will be, as perpetrators will move on to what is perceived to be easier targets.  And as an added caution, background checks don't always uncover past activity that occurred in other states.  Be sure to pay the extra cost to have a federal background check conducted.  And also keep in mind that many perpetrators aren't even on the radar of law enforcement.

James S. Rustad

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2020, 04:09:19 PM »
Yes, but not with information from an anonymous source whose credentials or experience we cannot evaluate.

Well, what are a few things that I know about you:
  • You claim to live in Minnesota.
  • You claim you used to live in New York.
  • You claim your name is Charles Austin.
  • You claim to be ordained.
  • You claim to be married.

How can I tell if any of that is true?

I welcome discussion from anonymous as well as pseudonymous posters.  I'll evaluate what they have to say the same way I evaluate your statements.  I will grant that someone who has been posting under a pseudonym for a while gains more trust than one who just started posting -- but the same is true of those using their "real" identity.

You, on the other hand, would have us ignore many anonymous/pseudonymous authors and activists of great renown, such as Aristides, Brutus, Cato, Centinel, the Federal Farmer, Kwame Ture, Mother Jones, Publius, Silence Dogood, or even "A Senior Trump Administration Official".  Anonymity/pseudonymity has an honored history.



Matt Hummel

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2020, 04:18:32 PM »
Interestingly enough, the Executive Director for a statewide affiliate of a National non-profit that has childcare, after school care, youth league sports, and lessons for children in swimming, gymnastics, etc., told me that they added a layer in the hiring practice: you had to have a letter of recommendation from a family member. He said people would not write flat out, "Uncle Chuck is a pedophile," but they would inquire as to whether Uncle Chuck was going to ever be unsupervised with children, or something similar. "Is he your top candidate?," etc. He found that there were instances that cleared a background check, but they had been waved off by family. They always sided with family in those instances.
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Buckeye Deaconess

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2020, 05:00:29 PM »
Interestingly enough, the Executive Director for a statewide affiliate of a National non-profit that has childcare, after school care, youth league sports, and lessons for children in swimming, gymnastics, etc., told me that they added a layer in the hiring practice: you had to have a letter of recommendation from a family member. He said people would not write flat out, "Uncle Chuck is a pedophile," but they would inquire as to whether Uncle Chuck was going to ever be unsupervised with children, or something similar. "Is he your top candidate?," etc. He found that there were instances that cleared a background check, but they had been waved off by family. They always sided with family in those instances.

This is an excellent idea.  Thanks for sharing.

Charles Austin

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2020, 05:08:55 PM »
Mr. Rustad:
Well, what are a few things that I know about you:
You claim to live in Minnesota.
You claim you used to live in New York.
You claim your name is Charles Austin.
You claim to be ordained.
You claim to be married.
How can I tell if any of that is true?
Me:
All those things can be easily verified because you have a real name to start with. Then there’s the simple matter that at least five or six people on this modest forum know me, and have met me personally.

Mr. Rustad:
I welcome discussion from anonymous as well as pseudonymous posters.  I'll evaluate what they have to say the same way I evaluate your statements.
Me:
You say you will, but actually you can’t. Because you do not know who those anonymous posters are.

Mr. Rustad:
I will grant that someone who has been posting under a pseudonym for a while gains more trust than one who just started posting -- but the same is true of those using their "real" identity.
Me:
Good grief, man! You would be such an easy mark for a teenager in a basement in Kabul,or Haifa who is clever with words!

Mr. Rustad:
You, on the other hand, would have us ignore many anonymous/pseudonymous authors and activists of great renown, such as Aristides, Brutus, Cato, Centinel, the Federal Farmer, Kwame Ture, Mother Jones, Publius, Silence Dogood, or even "A Senior Trump Administration Official".  Anonymity/pseudonymity has an honored history.
Me:
No. Yes. Maybe, in some situations. But not in the current situation.
Anonymity in some of those situations serves a real purpose. I ask for the 10,000th time, what purpose does anonymity here serve?
We are supposed to be a fellowship of mostly Christian brothers and sisters sharing our concerns, and in some cases, our very lives and deepest thoughts. You tell me why someone should come here and join this allegedly Christian fellowship and not reveal theor real name.
And Mine will remain a minority opinion, sad to say.
But PS, related to the topic: I would certainly, under no circumstances, accept any advice on how to recognize a child abuser from someone who will not tell me how they obtained that information or let me know what standing they have to offer that information.
But, as usual, we digress.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2020, 05:32:03 PM »
Mr. Rustad:
I welcome discussion from anonymous as well as pseudonymous posters.  I'll evaluate what they have to say the same way I evaluate your statements.
Me:
You say you will, but actually you can’t. Because you do not know who those anonymous posters are.

Actually, he can because he evaluates what they have to say by the clarity of their thinking.  You are correct that any appeals to personal experience by pseudonymous posters are useless.  However, I also think that you overrate the effect of your occasional appeal to authority due to your past as a journalist.  Most of us don't care especially since you show so much bias in your political and social analysis.

Mr. Rustad:
I will grant that someone who has been posting under a pseudonym for a while gains more trust than one who just started posting -- but the same is true of those using their "real" identity.
Me:
Good grief, man! You would be such an easy mark for a teenager in a basement in Kabul,or Haifa who is clever with words!

Uh, why? If the teenager in a basement in Kabul or Haifa who is clever with words has edifying ideas, then what is the loss?  While some here may exchange DMs or personal e-mails, this is not exactly a social-meeting site.

Mr. Rustad:
You, on the other hand, would have us ignore many anonymous/pseudonymous authors and activists of great renown, such as Aristides, Brutus, Cato, Centinel, the Federal Farmer, Kwame Ture, Mother Jones, Publius, Silence Dogood, or even "A Senior Trump Administration Official".  Anonymity/pseudonymity has an honored history.
Me:
No. Yes. Maybe, in some situations. But not in the current situation.
Anonymity in some of those situations serves a real purpose. I ask for the 10,000th time, what purpose does anonymity here serve?

You've shown what purpose in the past by stalking people and threatening to contact their superiors.

But PS, related to the topic: I would certainly, under no circumstances, accept any advice on how to recognize a child abuser from someone who will not tell me how they obtained that information or let me know what standing they have to offer that information.

On this we agree.  I can benefit from the thoughts of anonymous posters, but I will not take personal advice from them.

readselerttoo

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2020, 05:57:02 PM »
Yes, but not with information from an anonymous source whose credentials or experience we cannot evaluate.

Well, what are a few things that I know about you:
  • You claim to live in Minnesota.
  • You claim you used to live in New York.
  • You claim your name is Charles Austin.
  • You claim to be ordained.
  • You claim to be married.

How can I tell if any of that is true?

I welcome discussion from anonymous as well as pseudonymous posters.  I'll evaluate what they have to say the same way I evaluate your statements.  I will grant that someone who has been posting under a pseudonym for a while gains more trust than one who just started posting -- but the same is true of those using their "real" identity.

You, on the other hand, would have us ignore many anonymous/pseudonymous authors and activists of great renown, such as Aristides, Brutus, Cato, Centinel, the Federal Farmer, Kwame Ture, Mother Jones, Publius, Silence Dogood, or even "A Senior Trump Administration Official".  Anonymity/pseudonymity has an honored history.

I don’t quite understand why Pr. Austin has to make a differentiation between “known” and unknown posters.  I weigh my posts based on what I read and not on some projection I have formed about a certain poster.  I certainly do not know anyone on this forum in the sense displayed.  Why can’t people form their response based on common sense in terms of playing off the words in the posts?  Rather than post off of some preconceived notion of who the audience is.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 05:59:36 PM by readselerttoo »

Charles Austin

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2020, 05:58:19 PM »
Mr Gehlhausen:
Uh, why? If the teenager in a basement in Kabul or Haifa who is clever with words has edifying ideas, then what is the loss?  While some here may exchange DMs or personal e-mails, this is not exactly a social-meeting site.

Me:
Oh for heaven sake! You can’t be that naïve. I mean that teenager in some distance place could be setting you or the rest of us up for some scam, And because the poster is subtle with words or “sounds like a good idea”… Well, I hope you see what I mean.
I reject the idea that my desire to find out who is posting here is stalking, or that I have seriously threatened to go to anyone’s superior.
(I do remember casually pondering why one extremely high level executive in a very prominent church body was spending so much time posting here during the hours when normally one in a high-level very responsible position would be working at that high-level very responsible position. And I did read elsewhere that .... well, never mind.)
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

Charles Austin

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2020, 06:00:59 PM »
Mr. Rahn writes:
Why can’t people form their response based on common sense in terms of playing off the words in the posts.
I comment:
Because words have sources, and contexts, and may change their meaning or significance depending upon who says  them.
Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. Now in Minnesota. Twice-vaccinated.

readselerttoo

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2020, 06:05:55 PM »
Mr. Rahn writes:
Why can’t people form their response based on common sense in terms of playing off the words in the posts.
I comment:
Because words have sources, and contexts, and may change their meaning or significance depending upon who says  them.

So?

readselerttoo

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2020, 06:08:02 PM »
My point is that I don’t need to police what others are saying/responding to on this forum.  I am just responsible for what I express.  No one has jurisdiction over that.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2020, 06:45:42 PM »
What a waste of time it is reading arguments back and forth about anonymity. I was going to delete that whole string, but I've already wasted enough time. Can't you all just act like grown ups?
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Protecting Our Children
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2020, 07:15:22 PM »
Mr. Rahn writes:
Why can’t people form their response based on common sense in terms of playing off the words in the posts.
I comment:
Because words have sources, and contexts, and may change their meaning or significance depending upon who says  them.

So?


It is of the utmost importance when I see posts on Facebook to know where they came from. A huge number are inaccurate. It becomes doubly difficult when the inaccurate posters believe that the "fact-finding" sites are all liberal propaganda and can't be trusted. I wonder why they believe the sites they are so fond of quoting.


The source of information is quite important for determining the trust-worthiness of the information.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]